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Old 08-06-2010, 02:45 PM   #1
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Default Attention experienced breeders!

Hello Breeders,
I would very much like to pick your brains and start a thread that has your input and knowledge of the Yorkie breed. I would love to hear everything you know about this wonderful breed. Not just how you got started, but what you have learned along the way. Raising, showing, genetics, breeding, whelping, diseases, venting, or just anything you would like to share. I would love nothing better than for this thread to turn into a thread that will answer questions and deter people from wanting to be BYBs. I must admit that I have my own selfish reasons for this because I want to learn as much as possible, but mainly I would like for this thread to make people think twice before just throwing two dogs together and producing god only knows what. I hope it is not too much to ask.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:18 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by YorkieProud View Post
Hello Breeders,
I would very much like to pick your brains and start a thread that has your input and knowledge of the Yorkie breed. I would love to hear everything you know about this wonderful breed. Not just how you got started, but what you have learned along the way. Raising, showing, genetics, breeding, whelping, diseases, venting, or just anything you would like to share. I would love nothing better than for this thread to turn into a thread that will answer questions and deter people from wanting to be BYBs. I must admit that I have my own selfish reasons for this because I want to learn as much as possible, but mainly I would like for this thread to make people think twice before just throwing two dogs together and producing god only knows what. I hope it is not too much to ask.
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I will respond I'm not a breeder of Yorkies, but I do own a showboy. I wanted an agility dog, you see I train with a breeder of Yorkies who brings her Yorkies to our training session; we have large breed dogs.

I fell in love with this breed watching her Yorkies in obedience and agility. And I do exhibit my boy. And not so surprising what she thought would be a great dog for agility also had good show potential. I bought him under the proviso I woud show him to his championship. His parents had good health tests done prior breeding and he did as a pup.

For keeping a dog in show coat, it is a lot of work. A joy to watch that lovely coat grow and shine. I'm here on Yorkie talk to delve much deeper into the Yorkie, as one day I will be ask to breed my boy. He is currently on his way to two championships. And will have all the tests done before breeding. This includes OFA for knees n hips, CERF for PRA, another BAT done, and of course pre breeding tests for STD;s .

It is my responsibility both morally and financially to pay for these tests, and furthermore to make sure that whatever btitch he is bred to has also undergone those tests.

I would never allow him to be bred to any female. Continential Kennel Club registered female, female off the street? No way no how.

Showing: I've loved showing Razzle. It is another way we bond together. Another new skill I'm on my way to learning. I'm so proud of my boy. He epitomizes the terrier personality. Brave, inquistive, athletic, daring. He loves people and other dogs.

He comes from good parents. Nature or nuture? It is always a question. I think it is both, and mayhap not in equal parts. He has been in numerous places with me, done Agility one and Two, been in obedience training, been to shows, swims, hikes, flown on a plane with me. He is confident, secure, and a very loving boy. Temperament is AAA.

My breeder believes in exposing her dogs to different stimuli, only then do you get a true read on their temperament. She encourages all her owners of her dogs, to get involved, to train, to socialize.

Beyond structure and shall I say systemic health of the Yorkies, you want to have a good temperament, prior to breeding. And then of course you have coat and color.

It is very difficult to find all these things in a dog or bitch. I salute the breeders here who work tirelessly to find just those things.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:30 PM   #3
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IMO I don't think providing our experiences will deter those that are wanting to breed. What I think it will do is: allow them to cherry pick what they want to use and BYBer's will continue to breed no matter what.

My only advice and the best thing I learned from the get go is find yourself a good mentor, they are worth their weight in gold.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:36 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by gemy View Post
I will respond I'm not a breeder of Yorkies, but I do own a showboy. I wanted an agility dog, you see I train with a breeder of Yorkies who brings her Yorkies to our training session; we have large breed dogs.

I fell in love with this breed watching her Yorkies in obedience and agility. And I do exhibit my boy. And not so surprising what she thought would be a great dog for agility also had good show potential. I bought him under the proviso I woud show him to his championship. His parents had good health tests done prior breeding and he did as a pup.

For keeping a dog in show coat, it is a lot of work. A joy to watch that lovely coat grow and shine. I'm here on Yorkie talk to delve much deeper into the Yorkie, as one day I will be ask to breed my boy. He is currently on his way to two championships. And will have all the tests done before breeding. This includes OFA for knees n hips, CERF for PRA, another BAT done, and of course pre breeding tests for STD;s .

It is my responsibility both morally and financially to pay for these tests, and furthermore to make sure that whatever btitch he is bred to has also undergone those tests.

I would never allow him to be bred to any female. Continential Kennel Club registered female, female off the street? No way no how.

Showing: I've loved showing Razzle. It is another way we bond together. Another new skill I'm on my way to learning. I'm so proud of my boy. He epitomizes the terrier personality. Brave, inquistive, athletic, daring. He loves people and other dogs.

He comes from good parents. Nature or nuture? It is always a question. I think it is both, and mayhap not in equal parts. He has been in numerous places with me, done Agility one and Two, been in obedience training, been to shows, swims, hikes, flown on a plane with me. He is confident, secure, and a very loving boy. Temperament is AAA.

My breeder believes in exposing her dogs to different stimuli, only then do you get a true read on their temperament. She encourages all her owners of her dogs, to get involved, to train, to socialize.

Beyond structure and shall I say systemic health of the Yorkies, you want to have a good temperament, prior to breeding. And then of course you have coat and color.

It is very difficult to find all these things in a dog or bitch. I salute the breeders here who work tirelessly to find just those things.
Thanks Gail, I really appreciate you sharing. I will be attending my very first dog showing in September of this year, and I am hopeful that I will learn much about the breed. This is all very new to me, but I am very excited about it. Thanks again.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Mardelin View Post
IMO I don't think providing our experiences will deter those that are wanting to breed. What I think it will do is: allow them to cherry pick what they want to use and BYBer's will continue to breed no matter what.

My only advice and the best thing I learned from the get go is find yourself a good mentor, they are worth their weight in gold.
You know Mary I've been thinking about this some. I don't think the average person who just wants to have "one" litter for all the reasons we've heard, thinks of themself as a BYB.

Putting to oneside those folks who have avarice in their blood, wanting to make a buck off their female, the rest of the folks, just don't honestly understand why putting their cute little female, with this other boy Yorkie is a bad idea. They might want a "playmate" for their own dog, and a spare one for their Grandpa. they don't know the dangers of breeding, the risks they put their female under.

Then we have the group of folks who say "I'm just breeding for those folks who want pets" they don't understand or often times even care about breeding to standard etc. In fact often times they are disdainfull of what they call show breeders. They don't clarify that they do all the health checks, they don't necessarily have a health guarantee, they just want to provide the "public" with an affordable Yorkie. They also don't think they are BackYard Breeders. Mayhap they rationalize not doing health checks etal, as after all you are getting a deal at $500 or $700 I can't afford to offer health guarantees etc.

I don't know what the answer is, perhaps there isn't an answer, other than to continue to answer the questions as we can, to act in the dog's best interest, and to pray, over time we can make a difference.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by gemy View Post
You know Mary I've been thinking about this some. I don't think the average person who just wants to have "one" litter for all the reasons we've heard, thinks of themself as a BYB.

Putting to oneside those folks who have avarice in their blood, wanting to make a buck off their female, the rest of the folks, just don't honestly understand why putting their cute little female, with this other boy Yorkie is a bad idea. They might want a "playmate" for their own dog, and a spare one for their Grandpa. they don't know the dangers of breeding, the risks they put their female under.

Then we have the group of folks who say "I'm just breeding for those folks who want pets" they don't understand or often times even care about breeding to standard etc. In fact often times they are disdainfull of what they call show breeders. They don't clarify that they do all the health checks, they don't necessarily have a health guarantee, they just want to provide the "public" with an affordable Yorkie. They also don't think they are BackYard Breeders. Mayhap they rationalize not doing health checks etal, as after all you are getting a deal at $500 or $700 I can't afford to offer health guarantees etc.

I don't know what the answer is, perhaps there isn't an answer, other than to continue to answer the questions as we can, to act in the dog's best interest, and to pray, over time we can make a difference.
Over the last couple of months I've pondered over this too. Wondering if I'm contributing to BYBer's continuing with their breeding program. I don't know if there is an answer. But, what I do know is there is a right way of doing things. There is information all over the internet. I do think is most don't want to put the time and/or effort into research, they're in a hurry and want to be led by the hand.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mardelin View Post
IMO I don't think providing our experiences will deter those that are wanting to breed. What I think it will do is: allow them to cherry pick what they want to use and BYBer's will continue to breed no matter what.

My only advice and the best thing I learned from the get go is find yourself a good mentor, they are worth their weight in gold.
Thanks for your input Mardelin. I know that stopping BYBs is a long shot, but I do feel that what you all have to say does lay weight on some people. It did for me. I have not read a thread yet that has not provided me with some sort of useful information.
I hope that this thread will give information not only on the breeding experience, but with different diseases and conditions, the warnings signs and what to look for and what should be done.
Some of your first words to me was to go to shows, get to know the breeders, and find a great mentor. Even those three little sentences are great advice, and hopefully, someone else will stumble across this thread and decide to take it.
Thanks again,
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by YorkieProud View Post
Thanks for your input Mardelin. I know that stopping BYBs is a long shot, but I do feel that what you all have to say does lay weight on some people. It did for me. I have not read a thread yet that has not provided me with some sort of useful information.
I hope that this thread will give information not only on the breeding experience, but with different diseases and conditions, the warnings signs and what to look for and what should be done.
Some of your first words to me was to go to shows, get to know the breeders, and find a great mentor. Even those three little sentences are great advice, and hopefully, someone else will stumble across this thread and decide to take it.
Thanks again,
YorkieProud
If one is doing this correctly the best way to obtain the information is by obtaining a good mentor. It's the only way to start on the right track.
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:43 PM   #9
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I do not think the small BYBer or pet lover who breeds a time or two is the problem in the US..it is the puppymillers. They are producing hundreds of thousands of puppies per year. It is big business and many dogs are put down instead of vetted for illnesses, whelping problems and when they are too old to produce.

As a rule the pet owner spays their female the first time there is a problem, and never breed again. Compared to the miller they produce very few pets per year..I am not in favor of breeding pets to produce more pets...and if all pet breeders stopped, I do not think it would reduce the amount by that much compared to the miller..stop the miller and the results would totally change the pet population in the US..the pounds would understocked for a change...I could be way off..
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:47 PM   #10
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I do not think the small BYBer or pet lover who breeds a time or two is the problem in the US..it is the puppymillers. They are producing hundreds of thousands of puppies per year. It is big business and many dogs are put down instead of vetted for illnesses, whelping problems and when they are too old to produce.

As a rule the pet owner spays their female the first time there is a problem, and never breed again. Compared to the miller they produce very few pets per year..I am not in favor of breeding pets to produce more pets...and if all pet breeders stopped, I do not think it would reduce the amount by that much compared to the miller..stop the miller and the results would totally change the pet population in the US..the pounds would understocked for a change...I could be way off..
In some aspects you are right in speaking to the puppy miller. But, BYBers are breeding for one reason and one reason only and it's not to improve the breed. So, they have BYBers and Puppy Mills do share the same mind set for breeding, $$$$.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:42 PM   #11
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I have been breeding Yorkies for about 4 years. I don't claim to know it all. If fact I spend hours a day researching and studing. I think everyone always has room to learn.
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Old 08-07-2010, 04:02 AM   #12
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You know Mary I've been thinking about this some. I don't think the average person who just wants to have "one" litter for all the reasons we've heard, thinks of themself as a BYB.

Putting to oneside those folks who have avarice in their blood, wanting to make a buck off their female, the rest of the folks, just don't honestly understand why putting their cute little female, with this other boy Yorkie is a bad idea. They might want a "playmate" for their own dog, and a spare one for their Grandpa. they don't know the dangers of breeding, the risks they put their female under.

Then we have the group of folks who say "I'm just breeding for those folks who want pets" they don't understand or often times even care about breeding to standard etc. In fact often times they are disdainfull of what they call show breeders. They don't clarify that they do all the health checks, they don't necessarily have a health guarantee, they just want to provide the "public" with an affordable Yorkie. They also don't think they are BackYard Breeders. Mayhap they rationalize not doing health checks etal, as after all you are getting a deal at $500 or $700 I can't afford to offer health guarantees etc.

I don't know what the answer is, perhaps there isn't an answer, other than to continue to answer the questions as we can, to act in the dog's best interest, and to pray, over time we can make a difference.
I have given up trying to educate these people. They have already made their decision and nothing anyone can do or say can usually change their minds. They believe it is okay and nothing wrong in it. They totally think there are two types of dogs for breeding - one for just pets and one to show. So sad! And in MHO - Backyard breeders means just that - breeding in your own back yard! That means breeding in your home and do not go farther to show (evaluate professionally the quality of your dog) and most often do not do the require tests. They think why do all this testing and cost, since they are not going to show. And the buyers make this worse, since often they will say when calling, "I only am looking for a pet, not a dog to show." Which really means, I am looking for that cheap price since it is just going to be a pet. Or I just do not have a lot of money but really want a yorkie, and I want a puppy not a rescue. They just do not get it. I truly believe that if one is going to breed, they better only breed the best out there and prove it.

The future of this breed depends on what quality of dogs people are breeding. Think about how many pups are produced and then those pups growing up and producing more and they go on and produce. Many pet breeders that breed sell pups with open registry, not thinking it is wrong. I have often seen some breeders even advertise a puppy of 3-4 months old as a brood bitch or a male stud. What?? How can they know for sure at this age if they have what it takes to be of excellent quality. In most cases this is just the opposite and this pup should never be bred. Many of the people that buy this type of dog thinks this breeder is doing right and knows. No, they actually do not. Yet so many people fall for this and then go on and breed this dog and never have it evaluated and often not tested.

Puppymillers are a great problem. Educating the buyer is the best way to get these places to stop. Often when Bills are passed with loop holes and these millers know how to use them. It is all about the money and no care to the animal at all.

Mary is also right, many of the pet owners also breed for money. I have seen people saying they have a male or female and they want to breed them. They have fallen on hard times now and think if they have a litter it will give them some cash. I even had one guy that called me asking if I wanted to use his male as a stud. He was calling everyone. I had to laugh when I got the call. I then gave him some education, but did he take it, probably no. He just went on most likely to call others. This male was his pet, he bought from a pet breeder with open registry and never had it health tested, but did go to the vet for his yearly, and was 10 pounds and he was not aware of the standard. What standard?? He thought the yearly examined also proved his dog was healthy! LOL!!! Most people just do not know what it really takes to be a good ethical breeder. And most often it is the small percentage that actually do the research, evaluate their dogs, health testing completed, and do not do it for the money.

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Old 08-07-2010, 01:20 PM   #13
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In some aspects you are right in speaking to the puppy miller. But, BYBers are breeding for one reason and one reason only and it's not to improve the breed. So, they have BYBers and Puppy Mills do share the same mind set for breeding, $$$$.
Yes, I agree..but if we could stop the millers, I think we stand a fighting chance to educate many BYBers..millers are hopeless and responsible for most of the unwanted pet population IMO...
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:06 PM   #14
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Just my 2 cents, but to a certain extent, I feel BYB are an even bigger problem than puppy mills. The back yard breeder throws 2 dogs together or has an "oops" mating. There's no concern with the history of the health in the lines or the welfare of the pups once they leave. Even though oversight is abysmal with puppy mills, it's still more than is in place for the backyard breeder.

And at the very least, at least puppy mills are honest about their motivations. BYB's try to sound altruistic in their excuses- I wanted my friend to have a dog, I wanted my kids to experience the miracle of birth...

What BYB will never acknowledge is that they ARE puppy mills, just on a small (even single litter) scale.
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Old 08-08-2010, 02:38 AM   #15
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Just my 2 cents, but to a certain extent, I feel BYB are an even bigger problem than puppy mills. The back yard breeder throws 2 dogs together or has an "oops" mating. There's no concern with the history of the health in the lines or the welfare of the pups once they leave. Even though oversight is abysmal with puppy mills, it's still more than is in place for the backyard breeder.

And at the very least, at least puppy mills are honest about their motivations. BYB's try to sound altruistic in their excuses- I wanted my friend to have a dog, I wanted my kids to experience the miracle of birth...

What BYB will never acknowledge is that they ARE puppy mills, just on a small (even single litter) scale.
Here in my city we have elections coming up in Oct, one councillor has a platform that includes banning the sale of puppies or kittens in pet stores.

His reason stated is the lack of care taken of these puppies in the stores.

My reason for support of this stance is hit the pocketbook of the local puppy mills, if Canada's largest city bans the sale of puppies/kittens in pet stores, it will certainly be felt by the millers.
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