When is to early to deworm?

[jackson25]

Originally Posted by k Owensk9

This is a nice comment---your not attacking anyone just stating your opinion. thank you

Thanks, I am not trying to attack anyone at all....I feel we are all here for the best interest of our yorkies. If someone does things a bit different than the other, so be it. Posting research for one to read up on is all we can do, if one still chooses to do things the way they have, one is entitled, I for one am always up for learning a new way or procedure. Not that children and yorkies are of the same, but I wouldn't give a child Tylenol without first taking their temperature...kinda the same way I feel about worming, I wouldn't give a puppy dewormer without first testing the stool.

[jp4m2]

The advice given here concerning worming has been quite educational. If a person uses their common sense the cycle of possible worm infestation is quite clear….Find the source and attack the problem from there, this will eliminate the problem, for the most part…..No one here ever stated that worming a puppy is unnecessary or a bad thing. The question is *IS* it necessary. A stool(s) check would be the safest way to determine this for the pups well being. To continually worm a pup when there may be no need is senseless. The pups immune system is immature and very vulnerable at such a young age to be exposed to toxins, wormers are made to kill parasites, that would be a toxin.

To continually do something just because “that’s the way I always do it” is totally irresponsible….The way we do things has and will change, evolve, and improve, and along the way hopefully we will learn from this new information and adapt to these improved and safer ways of doing things.... Once you make the decision to change, you have to be educated first on what the problem is and secondly how to fix it. You can’t change what you don’t know…..

My word, if people did what was easier for themselves or they where motivated by their fears without at least doing the stool sample first then you might as well give yourself a nice big swig of that wormer, after all you *may* have pinworms too, and it’s always better to be safe than sorry…..

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Shasha

yep..im in full support of that...start at 2 weeks with a mild wormer....if any of my pups are really small, (i have a 5 week old who is 2 weeks premature and a orphan)..i will worm her at 6 weeks (4 weeks).

Originally Posted by k Owensk9

That's YOUR opinion---some people believe other wise---ME ! And several others it looks like---I worm my pups regular--puppies DIE from worms if not treated. I've bred dogs for 28 years--I've a lot of experiance . I'm not telling you what to do so WHY are you telling some of us what to do ??? Sounds like a Shark attack !! From now on I'll post "Shark attack" when some one crosses the line !!! Shark attack.

this is not JUST MY opinion. This is fact based on actual research by veterinarians and from experience of long time breeders. When one thinks they know everything, they cannot be taught.

And 28 years ago, that was the protocal. Now we know better. And we have these new fangled contraptions called computers, where we cn look up the latest information.

I have nwever had a pujppy die from worms because I have never had a puppy that had worms, because my adjult dogs do not have wormsd.

Puppies do not jujst get worms. They have to have been transmitted to them by their mothers.

if your puppies have worms, the mothers have worms and if the mothers have worms and they are in your house, then you have worm eggs in your, exposing your family members and guests to worms.

THOSE ARE FACTS Not opinions.

[jackson25]

Originally Posted by k Owensk9

I looked at this web site and it's OVERSEAS !!! MY goodness if I din't vaccinate for Parvo---I'd loose every puppies born ! Parvo is a VERY BAD problem in Oklahoma--I vaccinate Every puppy at 5 weeks and 7 weeks---I do NOT HAVE A PARVO PROBLEM !!! If you want to risk Parvo--be my guest ! I don't----I can't tell you how many times I've gone to the Vet and walked in on a case of parvo---thank goodness I vaccinated my pups I was taking for HEALTH PAPERS ___ no they were NOT sick !!

Again just my opinion, and how I vaccinate....but can I invite you to take a look at this?
Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by k Owensk9

I looked at this web site and it's OVERSEAS !!! MY goodness if I din't vaccinate for Parvo---I'd loose every puppies born ! Parvo is a VERY BAD problem in Oklahoma--I vaccinate Every puppy at 5 weeks and 7 weeks---I do NOT HAVE A PARVO PROBLEM !!! If you want to risk Parvo--be my guest ! I don't----I can't tell you how many times I've gone to the Vet and walked in on a case of parvo---thank goodness I vaccinated my pups I was taking for HEALTH PAPERS ___ no they were NOT sick !!

It does not matter where the information came from, dogs are dogs no matter where they live.

Vaccinating your puppies at 5 weeks is once again injecting something into their bodies that is not necessary. They still have their mothers immunity at 5 weeks, and therefore would have been immune to the parvo anyway.

The antibodies that they get from their mother recognize the vaccine as something they need to destroy and therefore it is totally useless. All of that information is in the article that I posted.

I can see that you are not willing to learn from up to date research. But perhaps others that stumble upon this thread are more open to learning.

So the information is not meant for you, it is meant for others.

[k Owensk9]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

It does not matter where the information came from, dogs are dogs no matter where they live.

Vaccinating your puppies at 5 weeks is once again injecting something into their bodies that is not necessary. They still have their mothers immunity at 5 weeks, and therefore would have been immune to the parvo anyway.

The antibodies that they get from their mother recognize the vaccine as something they need to destroy and therefore it is totally useless. All of that information is in the article that I posted.

I can see that you are not willing to learn from up to date research. But perhaps others that stumble upon this thread are more open to learning.

So the information is not meant for you, it is meant for others.

I'm following my vets advise--vaccinating at 5 weeks and 7 weeks for Parvo---I don't care who wrote what about vaccine or wormer _I'm following my vets advise and my own opinion. Hopefully anyone looking at this thread can see and follow any thing they please--I know I do !

[jackson25]

Originally Posted by k Owensk9

I'm following my vets advise--vaccinating at 5 weeks and 7 weeks for Parvo---I don't care who wrote what about vaccine or wormer _I'm following my vets advise and my own opinion. Hopefully anyone looking at this thread can see and follow any thing they please--I know I do ! ;)

Me too! Has your vet advised you of the immunities in momma's milk and what those antibodies from momma's milk does for the puppy? Not at all saying you have to change your way's, just asking.

[k Owensk9]

Originally Posted by jackson25

Me too! Has your vet advised you of the immunities in momma's milk and what those antibodies from momma's milk does for the puppy? Not at all saying you have to change your way's, just asking.

Oh yes my Vet did tell me all about that ! As we all know 2 or 3 week old pups don't seem to get parvo because the mom has given them the natural immunity---I'll try to explain how my Vet did--he used a graph I'll used numbers since I can't do a graph on this --- say at birth pups nurse and their immunity is at number 10 but each day as they get older the number drops 9-8-7-6 etc. And say at number 5 this is moms ammunity is gradullly going away--by number 4 the pups are at risk of Parvo--distemper etc. then they are exposed to something---then WHAM ! Sick pups. Ok the hard part is figuring out when the pups are getting to 5 and vaccinating. This is different with every pup---if ya have a litter of yorkies say 3 pups---they will get more of the first milk that has the "good stuff" that prevents Parvo etc. and say you have a litter of Dobermans say 10 pups those 10 pups don't get as much "good stuff" or first milk and they could get below that number 5 real fast. Of course this all depends on if your pups are exposed to Parvo-distemper etc. SOOOO one must gamble so to speak--when to vaccinate ! In Oklahoma we have big outbreaks of Parvo---distemper is almost unheard of (as far as I know here). We live in Very rural Oklahoma--coyotes, fox- and other animals carry and die of Parvo. I'm not much of a Gambler--so I vaccinate, Dr. Robert (BOB) Page developed an wonderful parvo vaccine(he and someone else--I think it was Dr. Black not sure on this ) called Neopar Parvo vaccine. I traveled to Tennesse to visit Dr. Page and he is the one that told me to vaccinate my puppies at 5 weeks old as his vaccine over rides the mothers antibiodies and causes the puppy to develope his own immunity. I'm sure Dr. Page can explain it sooooo much better than I can. So this is my feelings on the matter--we live in a parvo prone area. I vaccinate with neopar vaccine at 5 weeks old and at 7 weeks old. Then when I take pups to the Vet for health papers they are safe if a parvo dog is at the vet that day. Or when I ship a puppy it's safe from being exposed by some other puppy thats being shipped the same day as my pups. If puppies are exposed to parvo--you wont need to worry about allergies, cancer, or anything else as they will be dead withen 3 or 4 days at most. May be sooner. Parvo is DEADLY !! My daughter worked at a Vet, I've assisted my Vet in birthing, some C-sections--other things that's happened over the last 28 years and a lot has happened believe me ! I've used and still use several vets. Some are excellent on cleaning teeth, some excellent on c-sections---But none come close to Dr. Page understanding vaccinations !!! NONE OF THEM . I hope this explains my OPINION !
:thum bup:

[k Owensk9]

my goodness I should have looked on the internet before I posted---here is a good site for Neopar and explaination of the vaccine. www.neotechvaccines.com It explains far better than I can ! And it works !!!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by jackson25

Me too! Has your vet advised you of the immunities in momma's milk and what those antibodies from momma's milk does for the puppy? Not at all saying you have to change your way's, just asking.

Mary,

You are so right, vaccinating at such a young age, is supressing mother's immunities. Actually leaving the pups at greater risk at contracting Parvo.

I have many exhibitor/breeder friends that either live in Oklahoma and/or travel their frequently to dog shows. None have every had a case of Parvo, but then they do follow the vaccination protocol that has been adopted at the top Vet Colleges in the country.

I do understand the fear of taking pups into the vets office. But, it can be arranged with your vet to have them seen after hours and examined in the vet's personal office. Or, calling ahead, making sure an examining room available and sterilized before you go in.

[Mardelin]

In addition vaccinating at a younger age there is a greater chance of subjecting yorkie pups to vaccinosis....yep! it does happen, losing your pups.

[k Owensk9]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Mary,

You are so right, vaccinating at such a young age, is supressing mother's immunities. Actually leaving the pups at greater risk at contracting Parvo.

I have many exhibitor/breeder friends that either live in Oklahoma and/or travel their frequently to dog shows. None have every had a case of Parvo, but then they do follow the vaccination protocol that has been adopted at the top Vet Colleges in the country.

I do understand the fear of taking pups into the vets office. But, it can be arranged with your vet to have them seen after hours and examined in the vet's personal office. Or, calling ahead, making sure an examining room available and sterilized before you go in.

I give up ! You know best I guess ! (not really) If ya ever get a big case of the Parvo--email me I'll be glad to give you Dr.Page's email /web site or steer ya to Revival (revivalanimal.com) that carries his vaccine. I'd rather risk loosing a pup to vaccine than have parvo--BLOODY POOP, Vomiting---and death in a few days. Yes I had PARVO in my dogs back in the 1980's--I'm telling ya--you dont want it !!!!! Of course that's my OPINION.

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by k Owensk9

I give up ! You know best I guess ! (not really) If ya ever get a big case of the Parvo--email me I'll be glad to give you Dr.Page's email /web site or steer ya to Revival (revivalanimal.com) that carries his vaccine. I'd rather risk loosing a pup to vaccine than have parvo--BLOODY POOP, Vomiting---and death in a few days. Yes I had PARVO in my dogs back in the 1980's--I'm telling ya--you dont want it !!!!! Of course that's my OPINION.

I remember when parvo popped up...I did not go to a dog show for one full year..and my best friend who had a specials stayed home 18 mos..there was no vaccine.
While others had problems, none of our dogs came up with parvo..we followed strick rules. Parvo is not airborne, when we went to the vet, shoes were removed before coming home...I kept several pairs in the truck, plus the carrier was not brought back in the house...it went to the back yard and was washed in chlorox...nothing came back into my house except the dogs..and they were never allowed on the clinic floor...dogs feet were wiped with diluted chlorox wipes and they were kept separate from the others for 14 days.
There were breeders losing litters/ adults all around us and we never had a case of parvo...if you keep people and dogs out of your kennel or area where you house them, you do not need to vaccine at 5 weeks and worm at 2 wks.
Good rules of animal husbandary prevents so many unneccessay risks for our dogs..
If some one like me..(a breeder who has owned a large number of dogs) can stay worm, parasite and parvo free for 35 yrs just about anyone can...how can your dogs be getting these things if no dogs or people are allowed to mix with them...
People who come to visit puppies can remove shoes and wash hands...no strange dogs allowed ever!
It does not prevent socialization...ask people to follow rules.

[k Owensk9]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I remember when parvo popped up...I did not go to a dog show for one full year..and my best friend who had a specials stayed home 18 mos..there was no vaccine.
While others had problems, none of our dogs came up with parvo..we followed strick rules. Parvo is not airborne, when we went to the vet, shoes were removed before coming home...I kept several pairs in the truck, plus the carrier was not brought back in the house...it went to the back yard and was washed in chlorox...nothing came back into my house except the dogs..and they were never allowed on the clinic floor...dogs feet were wiped with diluted chlorox wipes and they were kept separate from the others for 14 days.
There were breeders losing litters/ adults all around us and we never had a case of parvo...if you keep people and dogs out of your kennel or area where you house them, you do not need to vaccine at 5 weeks and worm at 2 wks.
Good rules of animal husbandary prevents so many unneccessay risks for our dogs..
If some one like me..(a breeder who has owned a large number of dogs) can stay worm, parasite and parvo free for 35 yrs just about anyone can...how can your dogs be getting these things if no dogs or people are allowed to mix with them...
People who come to visit puppies can remove shoes and wash hands...no strange dogs allowed ever!
It does not prevent socialization...ask people to follow rules.

I'm thrilled you missed the whole gory thing--I didn't. And I'll never forget it ! I go to dog shows and I'm not staying home because I wont vaccinate. I welcome visitors to my kennel and I do breeding out of my lines and breed some for others. And every once in a while I buy a puppy---but never a unvaccinated puppy---NEVER. And as soon as I get that pup home I give a dose of Neopar. And NOW I haven't had a problem in YEARS ! I'm sticking with my program--and for all you breeders, pet owners that don't wont to be attacked I understand. Talk to your Vets get a program that works for you ! I don't want to force my opinion on anyone BUT if you have never seen Parvo----it's horrible ! Think this vaccination thing over good---it could save your dogs and pups lives and a horrible DEATH ! each one of you do as you please !

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by k Owensk9

I'm thrilled you missed the whole gory thing--I didn't. And I'll never forget it ! I go to dog shows and I'm not staying home because I wont vaccinate. I welcome visitors to my kennel and I do breeding out of my lines and breed some for others. And every once in a while I buy a puppy---but never a unvaccinated puppy---NEVER. And as soon as I get that pup home I give a dose of Neopar. And NOW I haven't had a problem in YEARS ! I'm sticking with my program--and for all you breeders, pet owners that don't wont to be attacked I understand. Talk to your Vets get a program that works for you ! I don't want to force my opinion on anyone BUT if you have never seen Parvo----it's horrible ! Think this vaccination thing over good---it could save your dogs and pups lives and a horrible DEATH ! each one of you do as you please !

I, in no way advocate NOT vaccinating, it is foolish not to..so please everyone vaccine.
I go to shows now that there is a vaccine..but when there was NONE, we stayed home..
I did stud service, groomed and boarded..and bought many puppies over the years..I just followed the rules..it works for me and what you do works for you...best wishes...