When is to early to deworm?

[jackson25]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

nope $15 isnt that much..but then again i do like saving money 15x7 could be a nice chunk to hold on too..

miss attitude

yes the vets want money and they will get it any way they can...they tell u lets do a fecal either way..but thats their job..to sell you stuff

i d rather take care of it my self and have no need to run poop to the vet..

WOW, I can't EVEN BELIEVE you call yourself a breeder! I am appalled! When one is in any kind of business, such as being a vet, yes the objective is to make money, HOWEVER, being a breeder it YOUR responsibility to take the advice of your vet ALONG with the education you have and make ANEDUCATED decision on how to raise your puppies and adults!

If your vet just wants money, FIND ANOTHER ONE! You have gone beyond the point of WANTING to learn. I realize what we used to do back in the day, but through modern technology and current medicine, new things evolve. For you to raise your puppies & adults the way it used to be, is hurting your breeding program, I suggest you do more research and LEARN things change!

I own an auto body repair facility, and years ago cars were painted with enamel & lacquer. Since then, technology has changed, now cars are base coat, clear coat. So you change with the flow, yes you can still use that nasty enamel & lacquer, but why, the new way is so much better and safer for the environment and my employees, so that is why I choose to change, not that I had to, but if a way is better, I am all for it!

[jackson25]

[QUOTE=tammy8833;3173995]nope $15 isnt that much..but then again i do like saving money 15x7 could be a nice chunk to hold on too..

miss attitude

yes the vets want money and they will get it any way they can...they tell u lets do a fecal either way..but thats their job..to sell you stuff

i d rather take care of it my self and have no need to run poop to the vet..[/QUOTE]

SO let me ask you, how do you BAT test at home? How do you test your dam & sire for STD's at home? Do you do your own c-sections as well? Just asking since it seems to be SUCH A JOB to run feces to the vet!

[Ellie May]

I can understand the hesitancy to use heartworm preventatives because of their toxicity, but we are talking about worms in the heart here! As stated above, using the slow kill method it takes about two years. During that time your dog will be heartworm positive. It may shorten lifespan of the worms, etc., but that isn't exactly synonymous with halting the disease. You still have worms in your dog's heart and there is n oguarantee that disease won't progress. Standard of care is still Immidicide therapy for young, healthy dogs with (I think) stages 1 and 2. I think the new research about Ivermectin is great, but there are a lot (the majority) of cases where Immidicide is still recommended.

Also, there is a lot of information about heartworms not surviving at temps. below 57 degrees. Well, that may be the case in the lab, but here in Michigan where we freeze for months, there were heartworm positive dogs that were only off of prevention in the winter. A lot of vets here strongly suggest year-round meds and yearly testing (because no drug works 100% of the time).

And as for vets being money hungry, I can't disagree. Some are.
If your vet is, find a new one.
I am really tired of all vets getting a bad name because they want to run tests, etc. It is their job. Some aren't interested in handing over drugs with testing. Many of them do give services away even if the client doesn't realize it just because they love the animals. Then they have to face clients...who think they are money hungry and don't care. I really wish they got more respect. Of course they want to make money. They have families to feed! And many of them are still in debt years after school. That doesn't mean they base their recommendations on the fact that they like money. It means they are doing their job. They don't carry around crystal balls and they can't even talk to their patients.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by rbelland

That would be MRS. to you young lady. Tells me a lot about your breeding program also...... How sad

Obviously Money comes first. Now I am all for saving money but not by pouring poison into infant puppies when it is unnecessary.

If you really want to save money, make sure your adult dogs are worm free, because that is where the puppies are getting the worms.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Obviously Money comes first. Now I am all for saving money but not by pouring poison into infant puppies when it is unnecessary.

If you really want to save money, make sure your adult dogs are worm free, because that is where the puppies are getting the worms.

Absolutely, also testing your lines for the really heavy duty stuff. If you can't do that, don't breed. Running just the CERFs and OFA is up around $500.00 dollars......

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I can understand the hesitancy to use heartworm preventatives because of their toxicity, but we are talking about worms in the heart here! As stated above, using the slow kill method it takes about two years. During that time your dog will be heartworm positive. It may shorten lifespan of the worms, etc., but that isn't exactly synonymous with halting the disease. You still have worms in your dog's heart and there is n oguarantee that disease won't progress. Standard of care is still Immidicide therapy for young, healthy dogs with (I think) stages 1 and 2. I think the new research about Ivermectin is great, but there are a lot (the majority) of cases where Immidicide is still recommended.

Also, there is a lot of information about heartworms not surviving at temps. below 57 degrees. Well, that may be the case in the lab, but here in Michigan where we freeze for months, there were heartworm positive dogs that were only off of prevention in the winter. A lot of vets here strongly suggest year-round meds and yearly testing (because no drug works 100% of the time).

And as for vets being money hungry, I can't disagree. Some are.
If your vet is, find a new one.
I am really tired of all vets getting a bad name because they want to run tests, etc. It is their job. Some aren't interested in handing over drugs with testing. Many of them do give services away even if the client doesn't realize it just because they love the animals. Then they have to face clients...who think they are money hungry and don't care. I really wish they got more respect. Of course they want to make money. They have families to feed! And many of them are still in debt years after school. That doesn't mean they base their recommendations on the fact that they like money. It means they are doing their job. They don't carry around crystal balls and they can't even talk to their patients.

You are so right, had my vet not run a coagulation when I wanted her spayed, because she had developed problems after a whelp. She'd have bled out.

If a breeder is educating their self, working with a good vet. You learn what tests are necessary and which vets are running unncessary tests.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

nope $15 isnt that much..but then again i do like saving money 15x7 could be a nice chunk to hold on too..

miss attitude

yes the vets want money and they will get it any way they can...they tell u lets do a fecal either way..but thats their job..to sell you stuff

i d rather take care of it my self and have no need to run poop to the vet..

you only need to test one of the puppies. If one has them, then they all have them. if its positive THEN you can worm them. I see no reason to worm "just in case".

A vets "job" isn't to sell you stuff. A good vet's job is to medically care for animals, not see how much they can test, offer, and charge you. If that's what your vet does then he's not a good one, and i've look for another.

Originally Posted by tammy8833

yup im tellin her since it some much mixed info..to call her vet and ask his opinion on what she should do..

and as all docs/vets they will tell her to come in and lets talk..and she will walk out with owing more $$$$$ then necessary

Also all docs/vets do not charge for just walking in the door. Mine don't. I can call her and ask her anything if need be. Or i can go in and speak with her real quick if i have a problem. She doesn't charge me for every little thing.

--

I've read this entire thread and at first i could believe that it had gotten so long. But as i read through some of the posts i understood. So much bad information was given out here that it had to be corrected so others won't get the wrong idea.

Medication should not be given out "just in case". worming puppies, especially at 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 weeks old, is ridiculous. If your bitches are worm free then your puppies will be worm free. Treat the situation before a problem arises. Don't willingly and regularly give chemicals to young tiny puppies. it is NOT protocol. If you did your research you would know that the protocol has changed and vaccines should NOT be given any earlier then 8-9 weeks old. They should get only two more vaccines after that at 12 and 16 weeks old. Rabies shouldn't be given until the pup is a little older (4-6 months) and never at the same time as another vaccine.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I can understand the hesitancy to use heartworm preventatives because of their toxicity, but we are talking about worms in the heart here! As stated above, using the slow kill method it takes about two years. During that time your dog will be heartworm positive. It may shorten lifespan of the worms, etc., but that isn't exactly synonymous with halting the disease. You still have worms in your dog's heart and there is n oguarantee that disease won't progress. Standard of care is still Immidicide therapy for young, healthy dogs with (I think) stages 1 and 2. I think the new research about Ivermectin is great, but there are a lot (the majority) of cases where Immidicide is still recommended.

Also, there is a lot of information about heartworms not surviving at temps. below 57 degrees. Well, that may be the case in the lab, but here in Michigan where we freeze for months, there were heartworm positive dogs that were only off of prevention in the winter. A lot of vets here strongly suggest year-round meds and yearly testing (because no drug works 100% of the time).

And as for vets being money hungry, I can't disagree. Some are.
If your vet is, find a new one.
I am really tired of all vets getting a bad name because they want to run tests, etc. It is their job. Some aren't interested in handing over drugs with testing. Many of them do give services away even if the client doesn't realize it just because they love the animals. Then they have to face clients...who think they are money hungry and don't care. I really wish they got more respect. Of course they want to make money. They have families to feed! And many of them are still in debt years after school. That doesn't mean they base their recommendations on the fact that they like money. It means they are doing their job. They don't carry around crystal balls and they can't even talk to their patients.

ETA: Some are not willing to hand out drugs without testing because they want your dog to be safe.

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by jackson25

WOW, I can't EVEN BELIEVE you call yourself a breeder! I am appalled! When one is in any kind of business, such as being a vet, yes the objective is to make money, HOWEVER, being a breeder it YOUR responsibility to take the advice of your vet ALONG with the education you have and make ANEDUCATED decision on how to raise your puppies and adults!

If your vet just wants money, FIND ANOTHER ONE! You have gone beyond the point of WANTING to learn. I realize what we used to do back in the day, but through modern technology and current medicine, new things evolve. For you to raise your puppies & adults the way it used to be, is hurting your breeding program, I suggest you do more research and LEARN things change!

I own an auto body repair facility, and years ago cars were painted with enamel & lacquer. Since then, technology has changed, now cars are base coat, clear coat. So you change with the flow, yes you can still use that nasty enamel & lacquer, but why, the new way is so much better and safer for the environment and my employees, so that is why I choose to change, not that I had to, but if a way is better, I am all for it!

because i choose another method of worming and choose NOT to use the vet for every little thing doesnt make me a BAD BREEDER...no my vet isnt all about money..BUT i will save what i know i can...so i prefer like alot of other breeders who just wont say anything..to do to it MYSELF

[tammy8833]

[quote=jackson25;3174023]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

nope $15 isnt that much..but then again i do like saving money 15x7 could be a nice chunk to hold on too..

miss attitude

yes the vets want money and they will get it any way they can...they tell u lets do a fecal either way..but thats their job..to sell you stuff

i d rather take care of it my self and have no need to run poop to the vet..[/QUOTE]

SO let me ask you, how do you BAT test at home? How do you test your dam & sire for STD's at home? Do you do your own c-sections as well? Just asking since it seems to be SUCH A JOB to run feces to the vet!

never needed a c sections
no needs to do std 's when i use my own stud n female who havent been with others but my own

[Mardelin]

[quote=tammy8833;3174088]

Originally Posted by jackson25

never needed a c sections
no needs to do std 's when i use my own stud n female who havent been with others but my own

I use my own studs and females too. But, I do have them checked for infections anyway. Have blood tests run on both of them to make sure they are in the best of health. Make sure that there is nothing that can cause harm to a new litter. Running a smear on both male and female is insurance against that. They can pick up other infections other than sexually transmitted diseases. Infections that will become sexually transmitted when they are bred. There are short-cuts that should never be taken when breeding. And or raising a litter.

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by kalina82

you only need to test one of the puppies. If one has them, then they all have them. if its positive THEN you can worm them. I see no reason to worm "just in case".



A vets "job" isn't to sell you stuff. A good vet's job is to medically care for animals, not see how much they can test, offer, and charge you. If that's what your vet does then he's not a good one, and i've look for another.




Also all docs/vets do not charge for just walking in the door. Mine don't. I can call her and ask her anything if need be. Or i can go in and speak with her real quick if i have a problem. She doesn't charge me for every little thing.



I've read this entire thread and at first i could believe that it had gotten so long. But as i read through some of the posts i understood. So much bad information was given out here that it had to be corrected so others won't get the wrong idea.

Medication should not be given out "just in case". worming puppies, especially at 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 weeks old, is ridiculous. If your bitches are worm free then your puppies will be worm free. Treat the situation before a problem arises. Don't willingly and regularly give chemicals to young tiny puppies. it is NOT protocol. If you did your research you would know that the protocol has changed and vaccines should NOT be given any earlier then 8-9 weeks old. They should get only two more vaccines after that at 12 and 16 weeks old. Rabies shouldn't be given until the pup is a little older (4-6 months) and never at the same time as another vaccine.

1st paragraph
WELL THEN YOU ARE JUST DEWORMING ALL OF THEM FOR NOTHING ARENT CHA?..YOU SHOULD TEST THEM ALL IF YOU ARE TESTING ONE MAKE SURE YOU DONT PUT CHEMICALS IN ONE THAT DOESNT HAVE WORMS

2nd
BUT THEY ALSO NEED SOMETHING TO HELP MAKE PROFITS

3rd
I CAN CALL MINE ANYTIME FOR FREE AS WELL AND THEY HAVE SEEN ME FOR FREE OF CHARGE AS WELL
--

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

1st paragraph
WELL THEN YOU ARE JUST DEWORMING ALL OF THEM FOR NOTHING ARENT CHA?..YOU SHOULD TEST THEM ALL IF YOU ARE TESTING ONE MAKE SURE YOU DONT PUT CHEMICALS IN ONE THAT DOESNT HAVE WORMS


--

Nope, if one pup in the litter has worms they all have them. They are together and so does the mom, she's been diapering them and/or has passed the worms onto them.

Deworming unnessarily leads me to believe breeders have not clue what is happening with their dogs.

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by mardelin

nope, if one pup in the litter has worms they all have them. They are together and so does the mom, she's been diapering them and/or has passed the worms onto them.

Deworming unnessarily leads me to believe breeders have not clue what is happening with their dogs.

i was being sarcastic

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

because i choose another method of worming and choose NOT to use the vet for every little thing doesnt make me a BAD BREEDER...no my vet isnt all about money..BUT i will save what i know i can...so i prefer like alot of other breeders who just wont say anything..to do to it MYSELF

You can do the worming yourself, but it is not necessary if your adult dogs are worm free.

You want to save money then stop giving your puppies meds unnecessarily. Then maybe you can afford to pay for one stool exam.

if you learned nothing else here today, you should at least know by now that All Dogs do not have worms. And dogs can be kept worm free. That's a start.