honest question to breeders

[LuvMyPuppE]

Originally Posted by bonbon

I strongly disagree with the idea that those who breed only for the money or "just because they want to" are more respectable. The thought of just anyone breeding, without doing everything possible to ensure the health and lifelong safety of their puppies is horrifying. These are living creatures, not toys to play with or products to earn a profit on.

It appears that I posted in support too quickly. I thought you were asking these questions honestly, but now it appears that you already had your mind made up and just started this thread to cause a stir, and create the idea that there are no good, responsible, ethical breeders.

you took what i said about people who say they breed for money or because they just want to be breeders being more respectable out of context.

more respectable than what?

as i said in the rest of that post.....more respectable than claiming to breed to cut down on the number of homeless pets or however it was worded.

sort of like the person who replied on the thread "parti prices" by saying, "because we can" in response to why they charge so much.

i find that more respectable than giving a bunch of reasons that make no sense whatsoever.

is it right? i don't know - but i like the honest answer.

[WinstonMom]

None of the posters in this thread were answering the question of "why do we breed?". If I recall your original question and the question that everyone was answering was "why do breeders sell pups with spay/neuter contracts?"

Audrey

[LuvMyPuppE]

Originally Posted by WinstonMom

None of the posters in this thread were answering the question of "why do we breed?". If I recall your original question and the question that everyone was answering was "why do breeders sell pups with spay/neuter contracts?"

Audrey

that was my original question, and in answering that question - the issue of dog population came up which led to another topic.

i also said in my first post that what's good for the goose doesn't seem to be good for the gander.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

you took what i said about people who say they breed for money or because they just want to be breeders being more respectable out of context.

more respectable than what?

as i said in the rest of that post.....more respectable than claiming to breed to cut down on the number of homeless pets or however it was worded.

sort of like the person who replied on the thread "parti prices" by saying, "because we can" in response to why they charge so much.

i find that more respectable than giving a bunch of reasons that make no sense whatsoever.

is it right? i don't know - but i like the honest answer.

Most of those who have posted on this thread already know this about me, but for those who don't, I want to say that I am not a breeder. Never have been, never will be - I leave that to those who KNOW what they're doing. I am proud to be a member of, and a foster mom for, Yorkie Haven Rescue. I also stand firmly behind good, reputable breeders.

I don't believe I took your comment out of context. To say that those that breed for money or just because they want to are respectable in any way shape or form is so wrong, IMO. They do nothing to ensure the health or the lifelong best interest of their pups.

My opinion of a good breeder: One who has medical testing done before breeding in order to prevent illnesses or other problems so many of these little ones are born with. One who thoroughly interviews prospective homes for their pups - and this includes veterinary history. One who insists their pups be spayed or neutered to PREVENT pet overpopulation - those who breed just "because" or for money could care less what happens to these puppies. If they did, they would have spayed their own dogs.

Are you looking for justification of your own breeding practices (& yes, I have read every word you've posted) or are you just wanting to bash anyone/everyone who produces a litter of puppies? There seems no point in your later posts other than to cause problems. Your original question has been fully answered. Move on.

I have absolutely no idea what the prices parti breeders are charging have to do with this thread. It's a good distraction technique, but it has no bearing at all on your original question.

I apologize to all the breeders for my original post on this thread. I retract that entire post and would have admin delete it if I could.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

that was my original question, and in answering that question - the issue of dog population came up which led to another topic.

i also said in my first post that what's good for the goose doesn't seem to be good for the gander.

And that has been answered time and again in this thread. What is your point?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

My wife keeps trying to place me in a Pet Home, but so far, no takers!

I have no problem with the Spay/Neuter contract, and believe it is best for everyone, and the breeder should hold back the papers until proof is shown. A lot of time, effort and love goes into each litter. Only thing I disagree with is that the baby pup is fixed at too early an age. We have had every dog fixed, and just about all of them with the exception of our little Yorkie was show quality. Does not matter to us, we just want the best pet,,,well, I should say family member, because that is what they are.

There are some really outstanding Breeders on YT, and several just commented here! Mardelin is right up there! Whoever gets one of her pups is lucky, same as with several others.

Will you be neutered first?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by topknot

I know you are trying to think things through and to be honest. While my children were young and growing up we had dogs that we adopted from the pound. I had been a vet tech and knew how important it was to help a dog in need. I felt compassion to save a soul.
Well, in reality - it was not easy to live with a dog from the pound. It can and does come with propblems and people need to be aware of this. I know, since I went through it.
We adopted one that had a shyness problem. I mean a real problem. We found out later after the adoption that she had been beaten by her previous owner. She was a sweety, but would not come to you and would always flinge and coward. She also had heartworms when we adopted her and we paid and took care of her to get rid of them. It was very scary going through the treatments, since we knew she could die from it. She did get better with us over the years, but was never really that friendly, but was very sweet. She was an English Sheep dog. And I loved her. We had her till she died of old age.
We adopted another pound dog - a sheltie that dug up my yard and was very over compulsive and hyper. She hated the kids in the pool and would run circles around the pool barking the whole time, so we had a dirt ring around the pool. We lived in Florida at the time and so was most of the year going through this. And was not that great with the kids being wet, always getting mudddy then. We did even tried to place her in the house while the kids were in the pool, but we still heard her bark and she scratched the door up trying to get out. Not very enjoyable to listen too.
So when you do adopt a dog from the pound, yes, it is very good when ones does so, but you must be ready for any problems they come with. Often sadly they are there due to past owners or because the pass owners did not want to put up with it. So sad!

Tina,


Kind of reading this thread and your post caught my eye.....specifically the Sheltie part.....Did you know this is a Sheltie trait, they are very protective, especially of young ones. I had Shelties at one time...it's what they did when my kids were in the pool....it's their protective instinct.....they took care of my kids.

[topknot]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Tina,


Kind of reading this thread and your post caught my eye.....specifically the Sheltie part.....Did you know this is a Sheltie trait, they are very protective, especially of young ones. I had Shelties at one time...it's what they did when my kids were in the pool....it's their protective instinct.....they took care of my kids.

Mary, I knew they were protective and I actually had a sheltie when I was growing up that saved me from drowning when I was 5. I walked out of my house and walked down to the lake. We lived in Orlando at the time. Lots of lakes there.She barked so much it woke up the guy that lived in the house closest to the lake and he came out and picked me up just as I was about to step off into the lake.
But this dog was way overboard. This was not the usual breed specific trait. She was very, very hyper. I knew animals traits from working at the vets all those years. Even my vet said she was off.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by teacup0819

Just to add my two cents here....and I am not a breeder, just a yorkie owner. When I picked up my yorkie a few weeks ago, the first thing friends said to me were....you could breed her and make alot of money. I was horrified I got Trixie from a breeder with limited registration. I will have her spayed when she gets old enough and never had any intention of breeding her.

My point is: you really never know who you are dealing with....I could never have imagined these "dog owners" would have thought of breeding for profit (so I could make up the money I spent on Trixie). Just the thought makes me angry.

I have the utmost respect for all the breeders for the time, effort and expense you put into your yorkies. I am so grateful for my Trixie. Without good responsible breeders, the yorkie wouldn't be what it is today.

Well said!

[Brooklynn]

I think the orginal question has been answered well and I'm proud like someone else posted it's been civil and handled maturely. I don't think now we need to go off topic and the great points of this thread It's good information regarding spay/neuter contracts and the importance of spay and neuters

Donna

[LuvMyPuppE]

i will not dignify the few people who love to continue drama where there shouldn't be any with a response. by the way, i see a trend in every thread with you guys.

continue talking amongst yourselves.

for everyone who is capable of viewing things objectively and remaining civil - thank you.

secondly, i don't know who anyone is trying to kid (me or themself) when acting like the factor of money is ABSURD and never enters the mind of any respectable breeder. is making a profit unethical? and if so, why wouldn't every breeder be reiumbursed for the vet bills/food/expenses ONLY? sure, they get reimbursed for that and that's fine - but there's profit there as well. i'm not saying there's a problem with that, but to deny it's a factor is a joke.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

i will not dignify the few people who love to continue drama where there shouldn't be any with a response. by the way, i see a trend in every thread with you guys.

continue talking amongst yourselves.

for everyone who is capable of viewing things objectively and remaining civil - thank you.

secondly, i don't know who anyone is trying to kid (me or themself) when acting like the factor of money is ABSURD and never enters the mind of any respectable breeder. is making a profit unethical? and if so, why wouldn't every breeder be reiumbursed for the vet bills/food/expenses ONLY? sure, they get reimbursed for that and that's fine - but there's profit there as well. i'm not saying there's a problem with that, but to deny it's a factor is a joke.

Making a profit would be nice. However, if you are breeding correctly, testing breeding stock as well as pups, vet costs, food, training (and then if we really wanted to make a profit we'd factor in the price of showing) our pups would be going for astronomical prices). Just speaking about this on another thread....my last litter my profit came to 89 cents. Now the litter year before last, I was in the hole $2,500.00, that was after I placed two pups. But, then I almost lost my dam.....and it took several thousand to save her.

What I will say is that until you walk in the shoes of a reputable breeder and I mean doing everything correctly.....I don't really think you can speak about their expenses.

[LuvMyPuppE]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Making a profit would be nice. However, if you are breeding correctly, testing breeding stock as well as pups, vet costs, food, training (and then if we really wanted to make a profit we'd factor in the price of showing) our pups would be going for astronomical prices). Just speaking about this on another thread....my last litter my profit came to 89 cents. Now the litter year before last, I was in the hole $2,500.00, that was after I placed two pups. But, then I almost lost my dam.....and it took several thousand to save her.

What I will say is that until you walk in the shoes of a reputable breeder and I mean doing everything correctly.....I don't really think you can speak about their expenses.

all you have to do is a google search and you will see astronomical prices. i don't know about you in particular, but you said we (i assume breeders in general).

i'd pay a pretty penny for a trained pup - i wasn't aware they went through training when sold although i was aware of the testing, food, vet, etc.

also, do all breeders have tails docked and ears cropped on puppies (not personal dogs)? if so, what is the purpose?

[Brooklynn]

I can only speak for myself here and I wish I could at least recoup what I've spent with showing/breeding...BUT I'm not in this to make money because I guess being in the hole in the tune of about 100 grand in the 6 years I've been doing this says that I love what I'm doing and doing it for the love and passion of showing and breeding (which I don't breed much).
Yorkies ears should NEVER be cropped...I dock tails because our standard calls for docked tails and I show my yorkies. When and if the standard changes to a full tail then I will not dock a show dogs tail.

If you see a trend with some of us posters it's because in your words stand by our convictions and our passion for this wonderful breed

Donna

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

all you have to do is a google search and you will see astronomical prices. i don't know about you in particular, but you said we (i assume breeders in general).

i'd pay a pretty penny for a trained pup - i wasn't aware they went through training when sold although i was aware of the testing, food, vet, etc.

also, do all breeders have tails docked and ears cropped on puppies (not personal dogs)? if so, what is the purpose?

No, my pups aren't sold for astronomical prices and aren't priced according to what I spent on purchasing their sire/dam or showing and championing them. My main concern is breeding healthy, well structured, happy puppies and if they are placed, placing them in the right home; pairing them with the right families.

Yes my pups are trained, maybe not the training you do. But, they are potty trained, lead trained, trained on the grooming table, pretty much everything that is required for conformation, as well being trained in being a well socialized puppy. Now some pups go home at 16 weeks so, they don't have the complete training.

Ears cropped....absolutely not. Tails docked....read the standard that will explain it.