honest question to breeders

[mommadog1]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

question: if you buy a dog that isn't spayed or neutered, does the cost go up? i mean, did you have to pay more money to get a dog that wasn't spayed or neutered?

also - my vet won't spay my pup until she's six months old - she said there are risks involved in doing it before that. if you sell under the condition a dog is spayed/neutered - is it done before the pup leaves your hands?

I always have paid more for dogs I have bought for my breeding program and the majority do charge for full AKC.

When I sell a puppy it must be spayed or neutered by the age of 6 months, and I DO check! They are required to send me a copy of the spay certificate.

[cj125]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Only you can attest to that.......You were absolutely pleasantly surprised when i sent you to your breeder weren't you?

Absolutely Mary! I know first hand and that is why I will always want to set that record straight.

[LuvMyPuppE]

"However, if you are breeding correctly, testing breeding stock as well as pups, vet costs, food, training (and then if we really wanted to make a profit we'd factor in the price of showing) our pups would be going for astronomical prices)." - Mardelin

"all you have to do is a google search and you will see astronomical prices. i don't know about you in particular, but you said we (i assume breeders in general)." - Me

"No, my pups aren't sold for astronomical prices and aren't priced according to what I spent on purchasing their sire/dam or showing and championing them. My main concern is breeding healthy, well structured, happy puppies and if they are placed, placing them in the right home; pairing them with the right families." - Mardelin

i didn't see anything wrong with that discussion, and to my knowledge, she didn't either. a question was asked and she answered it.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

You know what this board needs right now? A frank, open discussion on the pros and cons of tail docking.


Come on! Everything has been so quiet around here lately. Let's some blood pumping.

LMAO.....I was thinking the same thing.....this place needs some spicing up!

[LuvMyPuppE]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

You know what this board needs right now? A frank, open discussion on the pros and cons of tail docking.


Come on! Everything has been so quiet around here lately. Let's some blood pumping.

watch it or i'm gonna dock your tail - haha. just kidding.

you're funny.

[topknot]

Wow, you guys really went to town last night! I guess it was a boring night.

Yes, I believe your question had been answered time and time again and really unless you go through it, you really do not know for yourself. Mary, Donna (Brooklyn) and Nancy1999 were correct. It really is Very expensive to breed correctly. It is a very complicated thing, since there is soooooo much to it. It takes years and years and everything is connected to another, testing, a good eye, others evaluating, starting with your foundation, showing, equipment, training, learning about it all, studying pedigrees, and a ton more. It is educating oneself to make sure you are doing Best for the breed.

When I first got started with my very first really good yorkie - I had to give my heart and soul to my breeder. Why? To prove I was being honest and dedicated to the breed. People like my breeder are the gardians of the breed, at least to me they were and are. We became friends and she learned I was geniune. I was not going to have a really good yorkie with open registry without her trusting me. And that is how it is today and more so. Did I spend a lot for this first really good show dog and show this dog - Yes. But it was a lot less than what some of these crazy unethical breeders sell their dogs for, their pups' cost way more than they are worth. So you have to get to know the breeders and their ethics. It is usually pretty easy to see their motives. My dog/s I got were totally worth their price.

To the OP unless you go through all this yourself, I guess you really will not know value and cost. You will just have to trust the well educated ones here by what they are saying is truth.

[shodanusmc]

Tail Docking? Yes. If they had a long tail, there would be more chance to step on it. Also, It is the breed standard, correct?

My Corso has had his ears trimmed and tail docked according to the breed standard, but in some countries they are prohibiting ears, so you now see some Corsi with long ears and tail. I like the Docked look. This was done because they are guardians in Southern Italy and often tangled with predetors, both human and animal and less to hold on to and get torn up. Then again, if you are not into showing, can you tell your breeder not to Dock the tail if you are on a waiting list? I doubt most breeders would, as the good ones breed to standard, and would want their pup to leave as standard.

My vote for the Yorkie is to dock the tail.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

You know what this board needs right now? A frank, open discussion on the pros and cons of tail docking.

We just had that dicussion with a newbie a couple of months ago. As this discussion took the same direction when said subject has been discussed before; heated and with a newbie being banned.....Saddest thing was the newbie had no idea that her pup's tail had been docked.....now how's that for an informed yorkie owner....

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

We just had that dicussion with a newbie a couple of months ago. As this discussion took the same direction when said subject has been discussed before; heated and with a newbie being banned.....Saddest thing was the newbie had no idea that her pup's tail had been docked.....now how's that for an informed yorkie owner....

Trust me, I remember the discussion(s) quite well.

[kjcmsw]

This is probably a dead post by now, but it's interesting how the different areas of the country seem to have different standards. In my area "generally" speaking, a puppy sold with a limited registration is basically considered just another pound puppy and if it isn't good enough for the breeder to keep & breed is expected to be discounted considerably, similar to the price one would pay at a pound. A breeder wishing to control the sale post sale needs to "buy" that control in the form of a discount, which doesn't come cheap to the breeder. Full registrations are optional and priced accordingly. All which creates a balance. There doesn't seem to be an over-abundance of abandoned/given up or even, at the other end of the spectrum, available Yorkies in my area so it seems to be working (come to think about it, I've never heard of an available purebred Yorkie at the local animal shelter, when I asked a couple years ago, they said they've never had one). Which might be because people are given options when they buy a puppy which, in turn, make them happy as they had a say in their purchase. The line of thinking is also probably what does it matter to get the registration papers if you weren't planning on breeding, thus who would buy a "pet" that isn't good for breeding (AKC-paperless) for over a couple hundred dollars? I don't think too many people around my area would pay exorbitant prices for a paperless puppy, some maybe. Working or hunting dogs, maybe.
My Yorkies came with full registrations but I was willing to pay their costs just so I could have the option of breeding if I ever decided to. I certainly was given the option to purchase them at significantly lower costs for a limited registration. If, at some point, I choose to have them spayed, then it was extra money spent needlessly...but at least I have that choice...which I "bought".
~KC

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

This is probably a dead post by now, but it's interesting how the different areas of the country seem to have different standards. In my area "generally" speaking, a puppy sold with a limited registration is basically considered just another pound puppy and if it isn't good enough for the breeder to keep & breed is expected to be discounted considerably, similar to the price one would pay at a pound. A breeder wishing to control the sale post sale needs to "buy" that control in the form of a discount, which doesn't come cheap to the breeder. Full registrations are optional and priced accordingly. All which creates a balance. There doesn't seem to be an over-abundance of abandoned/given up or even, at the other end of the spectrum, available Yorkies in my area so it seems to be working (come to think about it, I've never heard of an available purebred Yorkie at the local animal shelter, when I asked a couple years ago, they said they've never had one). Which might be because people are given options when they buy a puppy which, in turn, make them happy as they had a say in their purchase. The line of thinking is also probably what does it matter to get the registration papers if you weren't planning on breeding, thus who would buy a "pet" that isn't good for breeding (AKC-paperless) for over a couple hundred dollars? I don't think too many people around my area would pay exorbitant prices for a paperless puppy, some maybe. Working or hunting dogs, maybe.
My Yorkies came with full registrations but I was willing to pay their costs just so I could have the option of breeding if I ever decided to. I certainly was given the option to purchase them at significantly lower costs for a limited registration. If, at some point, I choose to have them spayed, then it was extra money spent needlessly...but at least I have that choice...which I "bought".
~KC

So are you saying that good breeders sell Yorkies for under $100.00 in Washington?

Regarding purchase price of a dog, I really don't see it as buying a dog, as much as I looking at it as showing support for a breeder whose breeding program I endorse. I think many good breeders do the same thing, and offer substantial discounts to clients who have another one of their dogs. Occasionally dogs held back for possible showing, are later sold as pets, and they are often sold at substantial discounts, but I've never heard one sold for the price of a pound puppy.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

So are you saying that good breeders sell Yorkies for under $100.00 in Washington?

Regarding purchase price of a dog, I really don't see it as buying a dog, as much as I looking at it as showing support for a breeder whose breeding program I endorse. I think many good breeders do the same thing, and offer substantial discounts to clients who have another one of their dogs. Occasionally dogs held back for possible showing, are later sold as pets, and they are often sold at substantial discounts, but I've never heard one sold for the price of a pound puppy.

Nancy,

I have never heard of the aforementioned scenario either. And I know several reputable breeders in the Washington area. Some of the top ones as a matter of fact. Never are their pups sold for a $100.00. For the most part, all their pups are placed with limited registration. Only selling with open, on a strict show contract, mentoring included, if needed. However, I do know several breeders have placed pups, at a substantional discount or even without a fee. Again, most of the breeders I know have the pup's welfare at the forefront, money isn't everything, but a good home for your pup is......but, it's still on a limited registration.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Nancy,

I have never heard of the aforementioned scenario either. And I know several reputable breeders in the Washington area. Some of the top ones as a matter of fact. Never are their pups sold for a $100.00. For the most part, all their pups are placed with limited registration. Only selling with open, on a strict show contract, mentoring included, if needed. However, I do know several breeders have placed pups, at a substantional discount or even without a fee. Again, most of the breeders I know have the pup's welfare at the forefront, money isn't everything, but a good home for your pup is......but, it's still on a limited registration.

ditto that....

[topknot]

I have never heard ($100 yorkie pups from good breeders) of this either Mary and Donna.

I know plenty of show breeders that petted out their pups that would be probably very finishable champaions some day, if they had decided to sell them to show homes. We cannot keep all of our pups and sit and wait on all of them. So you pick one or a few that you wait and see on. But it is way too difficult to hold on to the whole litter. We may hold on to them longer than most to see, but you cannot keep the whole litter forever. IMO -The problem we have today is, most often, trusting a person to show and then to breed correctly, to do right for the breed/dog. Reason why most are sold with Limited registrations. Limited does not always and actually most often does not mean not breedable. What is does mean is that they are too young for the breeder to know forsure and so will and must be sold with Limited Registrations. In order to sell with open registration, of course you would have to make sure the dog is worth breeding which takes time to know. This is one reason why yorkies are so hard. And then the big question is Trust! You want to make sure the person is going to do right by the breed, the dog, and the breeder. This takes a lot of work and money too to show and prove breed worthy. It is not that easy for all people. It takes a lot of dedication.

Also - MHO - I do not think anyone should sell a puppy for more money with open registrations. Either they are breedable or not which means are they worthy of being bred. One does not know if a puppy is worthy of being bred and passing on its genes at 12 weeks of age. This pup is way too young and can easily fall apart before it reaches two years old. So in my honest opinion - to sell any 12 week old pup with open registrations, for more money - is wrong and tells me what the breeder really cares about. I am just letting you know how I honestly feel. Not trying to cause problems, but need to let this be known and why.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by topknot

I have never heard ($100 yorkie pups from good breeders) of this either Mary and Donna.

I know plenty of show breeders that petted out their pups that would be probably very finishable champaions some day, if they had decided to sell them to show homes. We cannot keep all of our pups and sit and wait on all of them. So you pick one or a few that you wait and see on. But it is way too difficult to hold on to the whole litter. We may hold on to them longer than most to see, but you cannot keep the whole litter forever. IMO -The problem we have today is, most often, trusting a person to show and then to breed correctly, to do right for the breed/dog. Reason why most are sold with Limited registrations. Limited does not always and actually most often does not mean not breedable. What is does mean is that they are too young for the breeder to know forsure and so will and must be sold with Limited Registrations. In order to sell with open registration, of course you would have to make sure the dog is worth breeding which takes time to know. This is one reason why yorkies are so hard. And then the big question is Trust! You want to make sure the person is going to do right by the breed, the dog, and the breeder. This takes a lot of work and money too to show and prove breed worthy. It is not that easy for all people. It takes a lot of dedication.

Also - MHO - I do not think anyone should sell a puppy for more money with open registrations. Either they are breedable or not which means are they worthy of being bred. One does not know if a puppy is worthy of being bred and passing on its genes at 12 weeks of age. This pup is way too young and can easily fall apart before it reaches two years old. So in my honest opinion - to sell any 12 week old pup with open registrations, for more money - is wrong and tells me what the breeder really cares about. I am just letting you know how I honestly feel. Not trying to cause problems, but need to let this be known and why.

YES, YES, YES!!!!! Love it when breeders know this!