Parti confussion?????

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Does this go for all faults? Or just the color? If a puppy is born with a slight over bite, or an ounce or two over 7 pounds, or black and gold instead of blue/tan, or a coat that isn't quite perfect. Do you spay/neuter all of those parents too, or just the ones that produce parti puppies?

I daresay if every dog was spay/neutered that produced a puppy with a disqualifying fault, there wouldn't be very many show dogs. In fact the breed would have died off a long time ago.

I honestly can't believe you asked that question, I really don't think you have talked with that many good breeders. Yes, dogs with faults should not be bred. A dog that produces a fault does not necessarily have to stop breeding, depending on the fault, the breeder might not want to use that pair again. I know you laugh and make jokes when people talk about "improving the breed" but really there are some breeders who want to do just that.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I honestly can't believe you asked that question, I really don't think you have talked with that many good breeders. Yes, dogs with faults should not be bred. A dog that produces a fault does not necessarily have to stop breeding, depending on the fault, the breeder might not want to use that pair again. I know you laugh and make jokes when people talk about "improving the breed" but really there are some breeders who want to do just that.

So you are saying that if a pair of dogs produces one puppy that is not show potential, that pair will not be bred again, even though it is a champion and that particular mating has produced other champions? If every puppy in every litter is not perfect???

You said "depending upon the fault, so some faults are allowed?

and yes I do scoff at the statment "improving the breed". They might be improving their own line, but to say that your line improves the entire breed?????

And that puts Joan Gordon among the "not so good" breeders.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

So you are saying that if a pair of dogs produces one puppy that is not show potential, that pair will not be bred again, even though it is a champion and that particular mating has produced other champions? If every puppy in every litter is not perfect???

You said "depending upon the fault, so some faults are allowed?

and yes I do scoff at the statment "improving the breed". They might be improving their own line, but to say that your line improves the entire breed?????

And that puts Joan Gordon among the "not so good" breeders.

No, I didn't say that, and this is another example how you twist people's words. Please reread my reply.

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by scrapindee

None of my biewers have skin or coat problems...any one else's???

Could you identify the Biewer or the breeder, I would like to be contact the biewer's owner to get additional information. Feel free to email me at dee@houseofwags.com if you would be more comfortable not posting it on the forum.

LOL I was thinking the same thing. I have 2 of them no skin problems with either one of mine..Gayle?? You have any skin problems with yours?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

No, I didn't say that, and this is another example how you twist people's words. Please reread my reply.

Yes, dogs with faults should not be bred. A dog that produces a fault does not necessarily have to stop breeding, depending on the fault, the breeder might not want to use that pair again.

Those are your words.

So you are saying that if a pair of dogs produces one puppy that is not show potential, that pair will not be bred again, even though it is a champion and that particular mating has produced other champions? If every puppy in every litter is not perfect???

Those are my words.

Please tell me how I twisted what you said.

Does this go for all faults? Or just the color? If a puppy is born with a slight over bite, or an ounce or two over 7 pounds, or black and gold instead of blue/tan, or a coat that isn't quite perfect. Do you spay/neuter all of those parents too, or just the ones that produce parti puppies?

that was my original question.

Please Explain to me how it works.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by JeanieK
So you are saying that if a pair of dogs produces one puppy that is not show potential, that pair will not be bred again, even though it is a champion and that particular mating has produced other champions? If every puppy in every litter is not perfect???

You said "depending upon the fault, so some faults are allowed?

and yes I do scoff at the statment "improving the breed". They might be improving their own line, but to say that your line improves the entire breed?????

And that puts Joan Gordon among the "not so good" breeders.

posted by nancy1999
No, I didn't say that, and this is another example how you twist people's words. Please reread my reply.

Yorkiekist had stated, unequivocly, that if one of her champion dogs produced a puppy with a fault, that she would spay/neuter that dog and any of it's offspring.

I asked does that go for all faults, or just certain faults like a parti colored puppy. For instance a black and gold puppy.

Nancy1999 was shocked that I would even ask such a question but then said "depending on the fault".

Is it unreasonable to ask which faults are "capital faults" and which ones are not?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I asked does that go for all faults, or just certain faults like a parti colored puppy. For instance a black and gold puppy.

Nancy1999 was shocked that I would even ask such a question but then said "depending on the fault".

Is it unreasonable to ask which faults are "capital faults" and which ones are not?

I think maybe the difference would be if the faults were correctable through selective breeding? It's entirely possible to have a dog with some faults and breed the fault out of a line. I dunno, just a guess.

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

LOL I was thinking the same thing. I have 2 of them no skin problems with either one of mine..Gayle?? You have any skin problems with yours?

If there were a list for dedicated, loving, responsible dog owners, Sherrie would be at the top.

No I haven't had any skin problems in my dogs. I would love to talk to the Vet that has had that much experience with Biewers that he was able to make that assessment. He might be able to answer other questions I have about the Biewers.

JeannieK, How long have you been breeding? I would like to know the last time the YTCA kicked anyone out for producing a puppy that was out of standard.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Pruett

If there were a list for dedicated, loving, responsible dog owners, Sherrie would be at the top.

No I haven't had any skin problems in my dogs. I would love to talk to the Vet that has had that much experience with Biewers that he was able to make that assessment. He might be able to answer other questions I have about the Biewers.

JeannieK, How long have you been breeding? I would like to know the last time the YTCA kicked anyone out for producing a puppy that was out of standard.

I did not say they would be kicked out. I said some members fear being shunned, and ruining their reputation as a breeder.

Years ago show breeders were a small close knit group of people. They were wealthy, and breeding was their life. If that kind of news got out it would have been social suicide for them. So those dirty little secrets were hidden.
And I have had old retired breeders tell me so. Now you all can pretend it did not go on, all you want, but I know that it did.

Had they all spay/neutered those offenders the parti gene probably would have been bred out. Well thank God for those breeders that had the sense to realize this was a natural part of the yorkie make up. It's not like they were breeding unhealthy dog.

[Nikki+2]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

To cull a puppy does not always mean it is killed. Cull means to remove it from your program. Unfortunately many do destroy them because they do not want to be found out, and unless the puppy is destroyed there is always that chance.

One would have to be very naive to believe that all show breeders spay/neuter any dog that produces a puppy with a fault.

Yeah I understand that in most cases "cull" doesn't mean to kill the puppy. I was just under the impression that killing them was a thing of the past and I was literally shocked and sickened that it still happens. It shows how far some (and I would think very few) breeders will go to protect the reputation of their lines.

ETA: Just to clarify, this poodle breeder did kill her parti puppy.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nikki+2

Yeah I understand that in most cases "cull" doesn't mean to kill the puppy. I was just under the impression that killing them was a thing of the past and I was literally shocked and sickened that it still happens. It shows how far some (and I would think very few) breeders will go to protect the reputation of their lines.

ETA: Just to clarify, this poodle breeder did kill her parti puppy.

Yes I believe that it does still happen on a smaller scale. But it does show that some breeders do hide their falty offspring in order to protect their reputations, and I would guess many of them are breeders that are consider to be "reputable breeders".

Those on here that are in denial of it, might be surprised at how many of their fellow breeders are hiding their fasulty puppies.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Yes, dogs with faults should not be bred. A dog that produces a fault does not necessarily have to stop breeding, depending on the fault, the breeder might not want to use that pair again.

Those are your words.

So you are saying that if a pair of dogs produces one puppy that is not show potential, that pair will not be bred again, even though it is a champion and that particular mating has produced other champions? If every puppy in every litter is not perfect???

Those are my words.

Please tell me how I twisted what you said.

Does this go for all faults? Or just the color? If a puppy is born with a slight over bite, or an ounce or two over 7 pounds, or black and gold instead of blue/tan, or a coat that isn't quite perfect. Do you spay/neuter all of those parents too, or just the ones that produce parti puppies?

that was my original question.

Please Explain to me how it works.

Your original question was this.

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Does this go for all faults? Or just the color? If a puppy is born with a slight over bite, or an ounce or two over 7 pounds, or black and gold instead of blue/tan, or a coat that isn't quite perfect. Do you spay/neuter all of those parents too, or just the ones that produce parti puppies?
I daresay if every dog was spay/neutered that produced a puppy with a disqualifying fault, there wouldn't be very many show dogs. In fact the breed would have died off a long time ago.

I was trying to say that a breeder does not have to spay/neuter parents who have puppies with a slight overbite or if the are an ounce or two over 7 pounds, or even a parti puppy. I was extremely surprised you thought anybody was even suggesting this. Just because a dog is a champion doesn't mean his offspring will not have faults, but you don't breed FOR the faults. I've always considered the parti fault a fault like the others, you are the one that has suggested it's much worse than the other faults, and a breeder would take extreme measures to prevent people from learning about this.

I asked a breeder on YorkieTalk, why she was breeding an 8 pound dog. Her reply was that the dog had perfect structure, and other wonderful qualities, furthermore, she knew the line, and her dog was the biggest of her ancestors, so she had a good chance of passing the smaller size genes to her offspring, and she was taking a calculated risk, by using this dog. She had a goal and purpose in mind when she was doing this. She wasn't breeding the 8 pounder because she wanted to produce larger yorkies to cater to those who wanted larger dogs, she was improving her line. When you improve your line you improve the breed. Good breeders do work with each other, they will tell each other the truth about the flaws and strengths of their dogs.

[avasmama75]

Bowie, My adorable Morkie is parti. Hes is beige and had black tips and some apricot also. I think its beautiful just like he is.
Op: I think we should be able to ask what ever we want without getting yelled at or without a big drama happening. Im glad you asked cause sometime i wonder about the parti color as well.

[avasmama75]

Originally Posted by Myslaydee

hmmmm as if i didnt know that!!!! its a breed now isnt it. im going by the yorkie standards!!!! what r ya slow, if u read my original questions on the subject and it was a reply from yorkiekist i was thanking!!

UGH So much anger sometimes

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Your original question was this.




I was trying to say that a breeder does not have to spay/neuter parents who have puppies with a slight overbite or if the are an ounce or two over 7 pounds, or even a parti puppy. I was extremely surprised you thought anybody was even suggesting this. Just because a dog is a champion doesn't mean his offspring will not have faults, but you don't breed FOR the faults. I've always considered the parti fault a fault like the others, you are the one that has suggested it's much worse than the other faults, and a breeder would take extreme measures to prevent people from learning about this.

I asked a breeder on YorkieTalk, why she was breeding an 8 pound dog. Her reply was that the dog had perfect structure, and other wonderful qualities, furthermore, she knew the line, and her dog was the biggest of her ancestors, so she had a good chance of passing the smaller size genes to her offspring, and she was taking a calculated risk, by using this dog. She had a goal and purpose in mind when she was doing this. She wasn't breeding the 8 pounder because she wanted to produce larger yorkies to cater to those who wanted larger dogs, she was improving her line. When you improve your line you improve the breed. Good breeders do work with each other, they will tell each other the truth about the flaws and strengths of their dogs.

I was asking the question after reading post #70. Yorkiekist made it very clear thast spay/neutering was the only reputable thing to do if one produced a parti puppy. So I thought my question was a reasonable one.

I in no way suggested that the parti color was a worse fault, why would I do that? I don't consider it a fualt at all, I consider it a variation.