Parti confussion?????

[my2boyz]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I'll take a beer with mine.

While you're in the fridge grab me a Sierra Mist would ya? Thanks...

[Missiemiss]

1 beer, 1 Sierra Mist, a Margaritta for me!

Move over Blair - they are talking about you my precious little one!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Missiemiss

1 beer, 1 Sierra Mist, a Margaritta for me!

Move over Blair - they are talking about you my precious little one!

Shall I bring her mama and daddy?

[Missiemiss]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Shall I bring her mama and daddy?

Bring them! That's how she got her beauty!!! (FYI: She's a DADDY'S GIRL!)

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Myslaydee

Well ive read over the post repeatedly and it seem that your only trying to defend this because u obviously have one i started this because i had never heard of the parti before until i read some one selling one! But its not worth the negative remarks. They are pretty, i just wondered if it messed up the standards of the yorkie. My opinion now i feel it does but it is MY OPINION. My questions have been answered thanks everyone!!

I'm glad that since you were the OP who had a legitimate question, you were able to stick with the thread long enough to get the answers you were looking for.

[scrapindee]

None of my biewers have skin or coat problems...any one else's???

Could you identify the Biewer or the breeder, I would like to be contact the biewer's owner to get additional information. Feel free to email me at dee@houseofwags.com if you would be more comfortable not posting it on the forum.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

So is it a fact that almost "no breeder put a spay/neuter agreement on their dogs" in the 60's and 70's or is this your opinion? If it's a fact, when did breeders start requiring spay/neuter agreements or when did they begin selling pups on limited registrations?

Is it a fact that "none of the exhibitor breeders dont have parti's, even back in Pomps day," or is it your opinion? I think we've shown you at least two very reputable show breeders who have had parti's. As for "BS and here say", maybe if you contact AKC and speak with someone who was directly involved in the parti investigation - so you get the facts from the horses mouth and not just someone's "opinion" - maybe they could shed some light on which other Old time breeders were interviewed and which breeders said they had off colors appearing in their litters?

I don't consider myself a "parti guru." I consider myself as someone with an open mind; someone who has a basic understanding of how recessive genes work and someone who will do their research when something I'm told to believe, just doesn't jive.

I don't think that the UK allows off colored yorkies to be registered so, no, I don't know of anyone - they are still in the closet.

Personally, I'm not "miffed" but disappointed that there appears to be a double standard on off coloring in the breed and I'm disappointed that the information on their website is inaccurate and misleading.

Funny how partis are "in the closet" when you cant find any! The YTCA doesnt allow off colors either.
As for showing me two reputable breeder that have partis who are they? And dont tell me its the coveted Nikko lines. Thats pretty laughable as Nikko sold to anyone who had the money to buy their dogs with no breeding contracts.I am sure that some breeders had a spay/neuter clause back in the day but I dont think it was as prevelent as it is today.Even in the 70's and 80's to early 90's these contracts were not as common as they are today. If they knew then what we all know now and knew how much this breed has been damaged, they would never turn any dogs over to a non show breeder. And limited registration didnt come out until about 8 years ago. I dont think they had that option back in Pompys day.

But you act like the "parti guru" LOL You are the only one on here that seems to have all of the knowledge about partis. By the way, parti guru is not meant to be a negative thing.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

And of course you have proof of that statment.

Also I believe the parti colored yorkies in Europe are called Biewers. Unless of course you believe that the entire story about the Biewer couple is a lie.

I personally am not miffed about anything. I could not care less whether or not the YTCA accepts the color or not. Their rules mean nothing to me. I would not join an organization that is so closed minded that they refuse to believe the facts that have come right from the horses mouths.

Times have changed. The show community is no longer this tightly knit little group of people. Many breeders that used to be controlled by the YTCA, got tired of it and have thumbed their noses at their rules and have brought their beautiful colorful yorkies out of the closet. They saw the beauty in the dog and did not feel it was right to deny this color a chance to show itself.

My partis came from a former show breeder. They are direct descendents of Champions. Dogs that judges found to be the best examples of the breed accordng to the standards set down by the YTCA. Did I mention Champions?

Perhaps the YTCA is the one that is miffed. Miffed at those who dared to openly admit that these Campion dogs were parti gene carriers.

I think YOU are the one just a tad closed minded. And are "champions" your only claim to fame and your best bragging rights? And I already clarifyed the Biewer part in my statement. You must have mis-read what I stated. I just wondered if you know of parti breeders in Britain as there must be a ton of them since that is where the Yorkie originated from. I already stated that I was not talking about Biewers in Germany. so do you know any? And I do not believe the Biewer story. But it has been discovered that another breed was introduced to create the breed.
Oh, did I mention Champions? Reputable breeders would neuter and spay any Champion that continually produced faults.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Parti yorkies may not be the YTCA standard but AKC in the late 1990's, did extensive DNA testing of parti litters and tested back as far as possible to the related adults (to the parti litters) from the Nikkos lines. AKC also spoke with Old time breeders, who were breeding in the 20's - 70's to see if these breeders ever experienced off color in their breeding program. It was determined that off color, including parti did appear in the earlier days and continue to appear in litters today (much to a breeders surprise).

Many of the new parti lines we see today (parti litters being produced by two traditional colored yorkies) are tracing back to one dog born in the late
1950's, CH Wildweir Pomp N Circumstance, including the Nikkos parti dogs. Wildweir Kennels was one of the kennels AKC interviewed about Parti color showing up and Wildweir told AKC that they had Parti colored pups being born
in their own litters.

It is thought by YTCA that 2 of the foundation stock that began the YT breed was the Scotch Terrier, the Skye (Clydesdale and Paisley being offshoots of the Skye) and the Old English terrier.

These foundation dogs, were not papered, and their heritage was unknown. They may have had a look or color that was desired but as for the recessive genes hiding within, no one can say what genes is or isn't there.

Historical writings and Illustrations indicate that there were "off colors" prior to the Yorkshire terrier becoming a breed ... scotch terriers with white markings, English Terriers that weren't black and tan and Skye terriers that
were brown in color.

If recessive genes are being traced back to a dog born in the 1950's (50 years ago), why can't the recessive genes be coming from dogs that began the breed 70 or so years earlier?

I had to re-read your post and find that it is amazing that you say the parti lines all trace back to Pomp. That being said the following show kennels/show dogs must be parti producers as they have dogs with MULTIPLE crosses to Pomp.
Clu-mor
Wildweir
Clarkwyn
Ch. CeDe Higgins
Ch. Clarkwyn Jubilee Eagle
Ch Rothbys Rene'gade
Northshire
Durrers
Barbee
Papagenas
Mardonlyns
Montclair
Pastoral
Rothby
Robtell
Aero
Kajimanor
Zerox
Jentre
Paradise
Yorktowne
Rievaulx
Desert Moon
Vista
Andreas
Gold Dust
Mt View
Caraneal
SilknSass
Steppin Up

This is just a small list!!
In fact almost EVERY show breeder in the U.S. and Canada.
There are many, many, many more kennels to go on this list. So where are all the parti puppies that had to have been produced if they all trace back multiple times to Pomp? Wildweir must have produced 100's of partis since they had more breedings with Pomp than any of the others.
The sum of only these kennels I mentioned have produced 1000's of puppies. All have multiple crosses to Pomp in their pedigrees. Where are all the parti pups? I guess every exhibitor breeder kennel must have swept them under the rug.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

But you act like the "parti guru" LOL You are the only one on here that seems to have all of the knowledge about partis. By the way, parti guru is not meant to be a negative thing.

Thank you, I didn't take it as a negative thing

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I had to re-read your post and find that it is amazing that you say the parti lines all trace back to Pomp. That being said the following show kennels/show dogs must be parti producers as they have dogs with MULTIPLE crosses to Pomp......

Really, only the old breeders who had off colors show up in their litters, can attest to the truth. I can only tell you what we have been told by the breeders involved in the Parti investigation. The below is a word for word quote from one of their letters:

"AKC went back as far as they could with the living dogs. They DNA'd about 42 litters. They also talked to a lot of the "old" breeders and they told them they had always been in the lines but were disposed of. Wildweir told AKC that they had more Partis than Gloria (Nikkos kennel) but they got "rid" of them. They didn't know the Parti color was a recessive gene and was really not gone, just not evident to the eyes."

The fact that Nikkos parti line and other parti lines are tracing back to Wildweir dogs, that fact that Wildweir stated to AKC they had parti showing up in their lines, the fact that AKC's letter stated that after their research into the breed history and receiving information of the dogs in your dogs pedigree (Wildweir dogs) that it was determined that this color can be produced in otherwise normal litters.

I can only assume that some breeders culled the dogs who it produced off color, thus ending some lines of carriers.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Missiemiss

Bring them! That's how she got her beauty!!! (FYI: She's a DADDY'S GIRL!)

Her mama is a daddys girl also.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I think YOU are the one just a tad closed minded. And are "champions" your only claim to fame and your best bragging rights? And I already clarifyed the Biewer part in my statement. You must have mis-read what I stated. I just wondered if you know of parti breeders in Britain as there must be a ton of them since that is where the Yorkie originated from. I already stated that I was not talking about Biewers in Germany. so do you know any? And I do not believe the Biewer story. But it has been discovered that another breed was introduced to create the breed.
Oh, did I mention Champions? Reputable breeders would neuter and spay any Champion that continually produced faults.

Reputable Breeders would want one to believe that they spay neuter any dog that produces an off colored puppy, but it is more likely that they just hid the puppy and continues to breed their champions. Because although they produced an occasional off colored puppy, they also produced many champions. Anyone who believes differently is a little naive.

No I do not know of any parti breeder in GB, but that does not mean that they don't exist.

And YES, to me the fact that my partis came from Champion lines, proves to me that the Officials were not able to tell the difference between a parti gene carrier and a non parti gene carrier and therefor it is a pretty sure bet that the gene has been in the breed for a long long time. If they had been crossed with something else surely the experts would have been able to tell, and if not, then what is the purpose of showing, if the experts cannot tell a mutt from a pure bred.

if you do not believe the biewer story then tell us a better one. apparently the experts in germany believed the story.

[EnchantedToi]

I'm not sure if this would be helpful information for anyone researching information. However, I thought I would contribute this .
When I was first getting involved with the Yorkshire Terrier and researching Biewers, I had the privilege of conversing with Terri Shumsky. She was a lovely lady and so very gracious to share her wealth of information and knowledge. Here is some information she shared with me.

terri shumsky wrote:

However, that said, there are a few breeders in United States that are breeding and registering Parti color yorkies and have been doing so for three generations.
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The AKC Rep, Florence Males, investigated the parti colors and she found that in the 70s AKC asked the parent club education chairman, Joan Gordon, if this was a possible color and Joan told them that she had come up with a tri color from breeding two normal color yorkies.
They have been registering them as Parti colors since then. I really don’t see anything wrong with it and they could always “show” them in a Variety class like other breeds do when the colors are consistent. Florence told me that if enough of them are bred that AKC would “tell” the parent club that they have to accept a “variety”.

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They do look like yorkies and quite a few people I know now are breeding them. It’s not for me to say it’s right or wrong. It’s happened in other breeds. Apparently, according to Florence, it’s not just coming from one kennel. Europe has parti color yorkies too.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Reputable Breeders would want one to believe that they spay neuter any dog that produces an off colored puppy, but it is more likely that they just hid the puppy and continues to breed their champions. Because although they produced an occasional off colored puppy, they also produced many champions. Anyone who believes differently is a little naive.

No I do not know of any parti breeder in GB, but that does not mean that they don't exist.

And YES, to me the fact that my partis came from Champion lines, proves to me that the Officials were not able to tell the difference between a parti gene carrier and a non parti gene carrier and therefor it is a pretty sure bet that the gene has been in the breed for a long long time. If they had been crossed with something else surely the experts would have been able to tell, and if not, then what is the purpose of showing, if the experts cannot tell a mutt from a pure bred.

if you do not believe the biewer story then tell us a better one. apparently the experts in germany believed the story.

Oh COOL! I have 10th generation splitters!!!