Parti confussion?????

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Wow. That was very enlightening. I have wondered why breed clubs allow and encouraging the breeding of deformities that create health problems. The flat nosed dogs that have horrible breathing problems, the bull dopgs with heads so large the puppies all have to be delivered by c section, etc.

They operate under the theory that if something is good then more is better. giving no thought to the problems that are being created along the way.

Perhaps it is all in an attempt to "Better the Breed". Show breeders should focus on meeting the standards, not exceeding them.

It is good to see the show breeders take some heat. Maybe us non show breeders don't look so bad after all. We just want to produce nice healthy beautiful dogs.

But you dont believe in "standards"!!LOL At least not the Yorkshire Terrier Standard. Your statement is like the pot calling the kettle black!!LOL
That little show on TV was VERY one sided and only showed a minute number of show people. Sad as this film was, this does not represent the majority of the true exhibitor/breeders or breed clubs/kennel clubs. There will ALWAYS be the few that give a black eye to the majority. But people like you that believe the factuality of that film hook, line and sinker is exactly the people this film was made for.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Pruett

What does a Parti baby look like? Here's a beautiful Biewer Terrier.

Those are beautiful pups!!

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Apparently it is your opinion that shows breeders are breeding for the purpose of selling puppies. I disagree with the strongly. I really believe that most are actually trying to improve the breed, and they don't sell their dogs, they adopt them. Lets face it, for what they charge, they are barely breaking even. I think a good measure of the "why a breeder is breeding" is the prices they charge.

Furthermore if you think the reason that:


this makes me think that this is the way you think, and you would not want to spay/neuter a parti with health issues. We tend to think others will do the things that we would do.

Good post!! Some parti breeders seem to think that its the reputable show breeder that is ALWAYS sweeping things under the rug. Well, i bet it happens in the parti world as well, even you reputable ones. We show breeders just dont hear about it. HMMMMMMMMMM. In fact I really havent seen ANY facts pertaining to the parti except hear-say. Its always "I have been told by so and so" or "I have a copy of a letter to someone about the extensive investigation", or " many old time breeders including the Wildweir twins said this , that and the other thing". So which twin said what? Somehow all things posted only point to Nikko, who is known for selling their dogs, even their SHOW stock without breeder contracts.(by the way, I talked to Nikko way back when they were showing Johnny)
So I have to ask, WHY ALL THE SECRETS!!! You are condemming the show people for doing the exact same thing that you are doing.

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I have some sources that say we didnt go to the moon and that the Earth is flat also.

Hallelujah we know some of the same people and Planet of the Apes was a documentary not science fiction.

I don't believe you can mix 2 cans of black paint together and get 1 can of white paint either.

Thank You for the compliment on my baby.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

HMMMMMMMMMM. In fact I really havent seen ANY facts pertaining to the parti except hear-say. Its always "I have been told by so and so" or "I have a copy of a letter to someone about the extensive investigation", or " many old time breeders including the Wildweir twins said this , that and the other thing". So which twin said what? Somehow all things posted only point to Nikko, who is known for selling their dogs, even their SHOW stock without breeder contracts.
(by the way, I talked to Nikko way back when they were showing Johnny)
So I have to ask, WHY ALL THE SECRETS!!! You are condemming the show people for doing the exact same thing that you are doing.

I'm sorry, I don't understand you're question "WHY ALL THE SECRETS!!!" What secrets do you think we're keeping?

Parti breeders are not condeming show people but it seems that some people feel show breeders are the only reputable breeder and that they can do no wrong. We are only trying to point out that they are just as human as the rest of us and they often have secrets, even though many would like to think otherwise.

A year or so ago you (general you, not you personally) said the parti breeders had no proof about when or where the parti gene came from. You've said that No dog that carried the parti gene was used to begin this breed, or that No reputable show breeder has ever produced a parti, or that No show breeder would keep quiet or kill non standard puppies. We have since presented information, documentation and scientific reasoning that disputes your claims. Exactly what would you like us to present that will convince you that parti and off colors have been showing up since the beginning of the breed or show you that reputable breeders have produced off colors in their litters?

Joan Gordon according to Florence Males (AKC investigator/Judge), was the Wildweir twin who spoke with AKC.

As for hearsay, the whole early yorkshire terrier history is based on hearsay. Stories passed on by word of mouth, since in the beginning of the breed there was no documented pedigree information. These dogs, who founded this breed, had unknown heritage - they may have been the right color but may have carried a smorgasbord of additional recessive genes for other colors.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Pruett

I don't believe you can mix 2 cans of black paint together and get 1 can of white paint either.

That's because the black paint didn't carry recessive genes for white.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Actually, its the YTCA that could give a rats a** about the parti breeders. And they are definately not afraid of the colorful yorkshire terrier club and its band of parti breeders either. I never said that being a parti breeder made you a bad person, I just dont agree with your ethics as a responsible yorkei breeder.

This is a breed club, not a coat color club. Just because a group of people shun this color that's coming from two tradational colored yorkies, doesn't mean that the dogs should be shunned or banned - they are Yorkshire Terriers regardless of their color. If the standards says for showing, that Steel blue and tan are the only correct colors, that's fine but if color is more important to the breed then being the offspring of 2 Yorkshire terriers, than maybe the name of the club should be the blue and tan terrier club and not the Yorkshire terrier club?

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

And for your information, Joan Gordon was actually on the committee that got the color DQ passed, says that there is no recessive gene for spotting and has also written a booklet on that subject, available on the YTCA site. She has also written an extensive history of the breed. .

People can't wish recessive genes away, if they are there, they are there regardless of what people say or try to dictate. I am aware that she has written extensive history of the breed (it's on YTCA's site) but was unaware that that she's written a booklet on the subject of no recessive genes for spotting in the breed. Could you send me the link for the booklet, I haven't seen it on the site before? I was also not aware that she was on the committee that got the color DQ'd.

It's strange how we have 2 different written accounts, one from the parti breeder directly involved with the investigation and a second from someone who passed away in 2005, both letters saying that Joan Gordon/Wildweir told AKC that they (Wildweir) had produced parti in their litters. This information isn't something that I'm making up and I have no reason to believe that 2 seperate people who probably didn't know each other, wrote basically the same information about what was told to them by an AKC investigator.

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I am sure that you parti breeders assume that YTCA has a gun to her head as well.lol I doubt very much if she did that big a flip-flop on the issue.

'

Nope, don't think she did a big flip flop, just think she didn't want to see the color in the breed. This doesn't mean that she didn't produce off colors in her breedings.

[Pruett]

If everyone would do a DNA profile (not Mars although a good idea) on all their breeding dogs, we wouldn't be having this debate. I can just imagine if everyone had to DNA the mom and dad, grandma, grandpa, and great grand parents how many dogs would all the sudden have died of unknown causes. I ask a breeder in Germany do DNA on a litter and they absolutely refused.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Pruett

If everyone would do a DNA profile (not Mars although a good idea) on all their breeding dogs, we wouldn't be having this debate. I can just imagine if everyone had to DNA the mom and dad, grandma, grandpa, and great grand parents how many dogs would all the sudden have died of unknown causes. I ask a breeder in Germany do DNA on a litter and they absolutely refused.

I agree with you, DNAing just keeps the honest folks honest. I DNA all my breeding dogs, and most of their parents and grandparents are DNA'd too (some great grandparents as well). I sent off the DNA samples of my current litter on Monday.

Horse breeds have required bloodtyping and DNA for years ... not sure why AKC also doesn't require it for the dogs.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

What "tough" question are you asking??? I had a family emergency and have been gone. IS THAT OK WITH YOU??

The question was. Do you spay/neuter the Champion parent dog for any fault in a puppy, or just certain faults such as the parti gene. for example would you spay neuter the parent dog if one puppy had a slight overbite, or a blck/gold coat or any number of unhealth related flaws?

Which faults other than the parti color would you consider capital faults and which faults would you overlook.

Since there are so very few perfect or near perfect yorkies produced, one would go through an awful lot of dogs.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

The question was. Do you spay/neuter the Champion parent dog for any fault in a puppy, or just certain faults such as the parti gene. for example would you spay neuter the parent dog if one puppy had a slight overbite, or a blck/gold coat or any number of unhealth related flaws?

Which faults other than the parti color would you consider capital faults and which faults would you overlook.

Since there are so very few perfect or near perfect yorkies produced, one would go through an awful lot of dogs.

I answered the ?? in post 136.

[Fancy_Pants]

Regardless, I think they are beautiful dogs. If they were cheaper, I would love to have one...Maybe one day.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Wow, there is something you dont know about?? .

I do my homework. And I don't argue a point unless I know I am right.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Who, exactly, are the "experts"??

How do I know WHO the esperts are. The people who allowed the biewers to be registered. the same as the AKC allowed the partis to be registered.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Sue and her tag-a- long, JenneK are the parti experts. You tell me. I was the one who asked the question about partis being bred in Britain.

Not sure what all that was supposed to mean.