Weoll that pretty much eliminates the parti colored yorkie because we are not trying to produce puppies with white heads, or all white yorkies.

Only time will tell.

Thank you ladies for all the great information, it is definitely something we will be watching for.

That is true, only time will tell. The Biewers Yorkies have been around for a long time and I have not heard of any deafness in their dogs. But that does not mean it won't happen in the partis, so now that we are aware of it we can watch for it.

I have spoken to may breeders including my own, that prefer to breed carriers to partis, and this might be why.

Sue I think we need to adjust the standard to discourae the breeding of Dogs with all white heads. I like the color on both ears anyway.

Yes it is so I definitely will not breed for dogs with white heads

Correct, Tammy's dog is very serious about her treats, that is no joking matter.

If you look at the spotting patterns of the Irish Spotting gene, it more closely resembles the patterning of the Biewers. White legs, white tummy, white tip of tail, white going up the neck to the chin, color on the back. The Piebald gene creates a more random patterning, like the Parti where the Irish spotting is basically very uniform.

Diana :animal-pa

I've said before that I think the partis are lovely dogs so I hope you all know I didn't post to bash anyone. It is true that partis with more color don't seem to have the problem with deafness; it's mainly the ones with a lot of white, especially on the head. It may not become a problem with the Biewers as they have more color but with the parti it is more random. I think there lies the real chance for problems. Who's to say how the pattern will evolve over several generations? With the (standard) Yorkie, there is no chance for deafness from this cause as it has no white so, in that sense, a risk is being added that wasn't there before. The piebald effect has been observed in many breeds and the mechanism for deafness is understood so taking what is known from other breeds will possibly help you to avoid the problems with the extreme piebald effect. It does seem like breed clubs disapprove of this type of breeding even with the knowledge of the cause and effect. Maybe because avoiding the problems is easier said than done? Whether parti breeders can avoid the extreme piebalds remains to be seen. While deafness is the most observable result, there are other negative effects (skin problems and shortened lifespans) that may affect the lives of extreme piebald pups. There is good info available so maybe you can use it to your benefit. From what I've read, those that do breed piebalds frequently have CERF and BAER testing done. These tests may be good tools to use in your breeding program. While it isn't a certainty that any of you will produce deaf puppies, it definitely is a possibility that should be cause for concern.

That's what I thought too. But, from everything I've seen, it's mostly been with all white animals. My sister has a maltese that is deaf also, and as I said too, we knew of a white cat that was also deaf, plus my sister had an all white kitten that was also deaf. At least with our biewers, they're not all white

That doesn't mean that she always will though. My sisters maltese didn't go deaf until she was around 7 or 8 years old. My daughter has a boxer that is 4, he just went deaf and blind in the last year

:confused: Yes, but I do not think that they were talking about age related deafness. Is 7 or 8 years a touch young for this, maybe, but loss of hearing/sight does happen sometimes as any living being ages....is this really the same as what is being suggested in this thread, though??

So far, there isn't any problem with our partis and deafness, regardless of how much or little white the dog has.

Since there hasn't been a problem yet, I believe it's something that needs to be watched.

We already have a number of generations (5 or more) of partis with no problems.

No, the traditional colored yorkie does have reported cases of inherited deafness, not due to white coloring but due other causes/genes.

I see you've also been reading the information on the YTCA's website "(skin problems and shortened lifespans)" ... this information is so inaccurate, misleading and very biased. Parti, chocolate and golden yorkies are just as healthy (with no skin problems or shortened lifespans) as traditional colored yorkies are.

Actually, that is one site that I haven't been reading. I've been searching for information of the piebald effect on other breeds. That seems to be where most of the info is. If you have a problem with the YTCA, that's your business. I do think it would be short-sighted to ignore all the other info about piebalds that is available in regards to other breeds. As I posted before...what makes the Yorkie unique so that genetics wouldn't affect them as it has other breeds? Hope my response isn't too confusing. I haven't quite got the hang of multiple quotes.

The YTCA as the mother club of the Yorkshire terrier acts like any other good mother when trying to protect its young. As of yet, scientists are still unclear on how these genes are transmitted . . . . so as a good mother the YTCA understands that you don't do something for a child and wait to see if its bad. If you see it's bad for other children (breeds) you are especially cautious. Until scientists know for sure how it's passed, it's not possible to eliminate the deafness or other problems associated with it. The wait and see attitude bothers me because I feel very protective of the breed. When producing new life, isn't always better to error on the side of caution?

Great analogy, Nancy. While we don't always agree with our parents' rules, we generally see the sense in them later.

This statement indicates that you have knowledge of deafness occuring in Parti colored yorkies. Maybe you can tell us which line they are from and how common the occurance is.

My mother didn't go deaf until she was 80 either.

[quote from Woogie man]I think you said it all in the words 'so far'. There is an acknowledged risk that cannot be ignored

Maybe more than watched. A proactive attempt to avoid the extreme piebalds might be more in order.

[/quote]


So Far there hasn't been any color related deafness in traditional yorkies either. does that mean there will be in the future


surely you are not advocating that we just stop all breeding because of something that "might" or "might not' happen

If that is the case than I think it can be said that we should all stop breeding and leave it up to the animals and the survival of the fittest, as The Good Lord intended.

After all the Lord provided the perfect dog and man has been trying to "improve the breed" ever since. :rolleyes:

First
The YTCA set the standards for the breed, as they wanted them to be, they did not Create the Yorkshire Terrier.

Second
The wait and see attitude??? I would imagine thopse that developed any breed had to go therough the wait and see period during the development process.


Third
The problem has not occured in all breeds or all dogs of one breed, which leads me to believe it is more than one gene causing the problem, it is a combination.

Here is what I said..... "It is true that partis with more color don't seem to have the problem with deafness; it's mainly the ones with a lot of white, especially on the head." I never mentioned Yorkies in particular so your inference is wrong. There really isn't any info I could find about parti (piebald) Yorkies specifically. The information available is what is known about the piebald effect in other breeds. It is consistent and does have good research behind it. I said it before and I'll say it again. What makes the Yorkie unique so that the piebald effect wouldn't be true as it is with other breeds? In other breeds, the problems arise with the extreme piebald effect, especially with white extending to the ear. I posted links earlier and you can also easily google if you want more info.

There is ALWAYS one in every crowd.

Thank you!!

The fact is, we are ALL messing with Gods perfect creations. Those wo breed traditionals are no different in that respect. Where the difference lies is by the time you started breeding, someone else had allready gone through the "what ifs" and "wait and sees" asnd taken all of the risks.

You took on a breed that had already been perfected (as much as man can perfect).

We are aware of all of the possible health issues, Lord knows we've been told about it enough. But at this point, none of those things have come true. If and when they do we will certainly make changes to our programs, but that does not mean we wil scrap the programs, we will try to determine what created the problem.

Would you scrap your entire program, never to breed again, if you produced one unhealthy puppy.? I think not. You would make the necessary modifications, if you could even determine what that would entail.

What does the showing part have to do with this? Producing healthy quality puppies should be done reguardless if you show or not.

From statements that you have made in the past, there is only one reason, other than showing, to breed dogs, and that would be to get rich. So since there is no market for deaf dogs, and we do not show them, there would be no reason to continue breeding them.

Sorry, your statement makes absolutley no sense to me. Are you saying that there has to be a "market" for a certain breed of dog before you can show it?

Here is a quote from your post, JeanieK..."So Far there hasn't been any color related deafness in traditional yorkies either. does that mean there will be in the future
My response...There is no color related deafness in traditional Yorkies due to the lack of the piebald gene. Any deafness that might occur would be from some other cause.

And, here's your other quote..."surely you are not advocating that we just stop all breeding because of something that "might" or "might not' happen" My response......Obviously, I'm not advocating that. In the case of piebalds, it is not a case of something that might or might not happen, but rather a case of something that can and does happen. It doesn't always happen, but it is an additional risk that must be considered. I'm sure this will be more clear to you as you do your own research.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

well said, well said

From what I read the deafness can occur at a later age. So it seems like you wouldnt even know if the partis being bred now would have future deafnessand passing it off to their offspring. Is that correct? That seems to be a very big chance to take

:thumbup:My thoughts also.

There are a lot of breeds that can have deafness in their lines like Dalmation and Boston Terriers. Does that mean they shouldn't be bred altogether as a breed or does it mean you don't breed the lines that you know produced the deaf puppies?

Yes that's correct and this is different than age related deafness. A 7-8 year old dog is not considered old.