No I have not spoken with the Mars people, I just got the information from their website.

Here is a litter with 2 partis, one golden and one black

Attachment 263366

If a traditional looking yorkie has one full parti parent, he/shed will definiely be a carrier.

Yes, you're right, I was thinking, about how they knew when two carriers are bred.

Sometimes they have a large white bib and white feet and toenails. Yes generally you would not know unless they produce a parti offspring.

WOW I am totally shocked by this since I asked this question a long time ago. But I don't understand how that is when the two do look different in color comparison, one looks parti while the other has more black in certain areas. I have been a fan of biewers since I noticed one YT member's biewer.

This is getting interesting now, if you delete the personally attacks on each others dogs. Also both sides do appear to have good arguments when discussing the parti vs. yorkie standards. So to us less informed great information.

With the two main people, I hold the up most respect to each of you, you both seem to do your homework on your breeding program and that is what our society needs more than anything, even if you both don't agree with each other on this topic, you do have something in common and that is trying to better what you think is better for the breed. So I give both a :thumbup:

We probably all could call AKC and get different answers. I may call one day next week.
I say this because I went to the unemployment office one time, talked to 3 different people that worked there, and all 3 said something different about unemployment.:confused:

[QUOTE=Breezeaway;2446810]This is Taken from a Biewer site"ALL Biewers regardless of whether bred in the United States, Germany, Argentina or Hungary will trace back to Darling von Friedheck and Fru-Fru von Friedheck . If they do not then they are not Biewers.[/QUOT
This is a great point.On "Paper" all of them do,even the ugliest and totally out of standard Biewers you will come across.This might be the biggest difference between Parties and Biewers.The Biewers go back to Friedheck and the Parties do not.

[quote=Delightyorkies;2447330]Correct. The parti color was cultivated here in the states.

Quote from Pinehaven.

Many of the new parti lines we see today (parti litters being produced by two traditional colored yorkies) are tracing back to one dog born in the late
1950's, CH Wildweir Pomp N Circumstance, including the Nikkos parti dogs. Wildweir Kennels was one of the kennels AKC interviewed about Parti color showing up and Wildweir told AKC that they had Parti colored pups being born
in their own litters.

Mr.and Mrs.Biewer had a very tight grip on their breeding program until Mr. Biewer died.Most of their puppies had been sold into pet homes.Only a handful of breeders had been offered Stud services .The Biewer 25 years ago was very expensive 4000 DM.That would have bought you a pretty nice used car in Germany,at this time We suspect that even at that time adventurous German breeders tried to recreate the Biewer.Which was possible in the first generation ,but these dogs would never breed true.Their offspring would convert back to whatever was mixed into them or even worse ,would create weird looking dogs that looked like "who knows what."Soon after Mr. Biewer died ,the Biewer hit an all time low.Nobody seemed to have very much interest any more in the breed.Prices of 350-500 DM had not attracted many breeders.The Biewer was on his way to die out.Due to the American interest and monies the Biewer suddenly came into high demand.At this time many of the old Biewers lines had been closed and the dogs had been retired.The high demand and the willingness of the American buyer to pay top dollar for the dogs shifted German Biewer breeding into high gear.Many of us that imported in 2004-2007 bought dogs that came from a few German breeders. American breeders all over the USA,have siblings and littermates to each other.Therefore many of the foundation Biewers are the same.The BTCA Mars tested over a hundred Biewers and has a pretty good picture what the American Biewer consists of.Due to the great relationship ,constant contact and the trust Mrs.Biewer has shown us ,we have been able to gain a much better understanding of how this dog should be bred and how to combat the arising health issues.The Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la pom pon 25 years ago had none of the undesirable traits of some of Biewers sold today.Several of our Members are in the beginning of their 4th Generation of American bred Biewers.We call that commitment to the breed . The BTCA has paid close attention to lines that are suspicious in Liver shunt and epilepsy .We have avoided these breeders and lines and so far none in the USA produced Liver shunt and epilepsy puppies have come from BTCA members.In our fight and struggle for this breed we have had NO support from our opposing clubs ,on the contrary ,we had to deal with the never ending attacks ,false accusations and unfounded opinions .The BTCA has left it to the discretion of its members to reveal the test results of their dogs. We feel it is a great disservice to this wonderful breed to be bred by people that deceive the public about the purity of their dogs.Untested Biewers bred together is about the worst practice that could happen for the Biewer in the future.For all of you that want to wait for the perfect test go ahead and wait.The BTCA is about doing the best they can for the "Biewer Terrier "today, at least have the decency not to be a hindrance.Do we think the Biewer Terrier is going to be superior,you bet we do and so do all the authorities that support us,including Mrs.Biewer.
We do not compare ourself with the Parti Yorkies and their breeders and pass no judgement on them.
We are the "Biewer Terrier Club of America" BTCA inc., not to be confused with the BBCI that recently changed their name to BBCA inc..

Thank you for putting this up on here for everyone to read

Very good over view of the Biewer. Which breeds of dogs were used to develope the breed. And how are they registered in the all breed registries.

I agree with being particular about which lines you buy from, there are also parti breeders that I would not buy from. There are a lot of knock offs out there, possibly more knock offs than there are true purebred parti yorkies.

I don't understand why you keep asking how they are registered. :confused: It's been answered several times already.

For the record...AKC stands for American Kennel Club. They would have never been registered with AKC...there isn't any such registry in Germany....regardless of what they were called.

I am not talking about your breed club registry.

I know they are not registered with the AKC. But I know they have to registered with an all breed registry, for purebred dogs, for showing purposes. CKC APRI, ACA, ACR, ABRA, APR, APA, NAKC, UABR, ETC. The list is long. since the BTCA is most likely not recognized yet by any of these registries, the must be registered as something else.

You say you have answered the question, I must have missed it, so could you please post it again? And which breeds of dogs were used to develop the breed.

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. I'm hesitant to post as the main posters here seem to have done their homework but I do have a question. Isn't the word 'parti' the same as 'piebald'? If so, there are piebald colors in other breeds, and in those cases, it seems that the breed clubs don't accept them either due to potential health risks, mainly deafness. Is there something unique about the Yorkie that exempts it from these risks? I found fairly quickly a few sites about other breeds with piebald concerns, namely the Dachshund, Boston Terrier and Great Dane. Here's some links...health issues....WHITES: IS IT WORTH THE RISKS and, also Health Issues I'm sure there are sites with piebald advocates too, but the piebald issue seems to be well known in the dog world and it seems to be well accepted that there are risks in breeding for that look. I have no expertise with this but am just an interested observer so I may be completely off base. They are lovely dogs but isn't it a little like playing with fire to breed for that look (color), regardless of the origin of the gene?

You just got me thinking too, and now, I'm curious about this as well. I know that white cats with (I think it's blue eyes) are also deaf

Yes, the parti color is thought to be from the piebald gene, and you are correct, it has been shown to cause a problem with other breeds. The YTCA frowns upon breeding for it because of the "unknown" health risks. Many Parti breeders state that there has been shown no increased health risks, but it takes a few years before this is known, and the purposeful breeding of the Parti gene is a rather new phenomena. Since no breed club is backing the breeding of Parti, I doubt if there will be any meaningful research on the subject. Most breeders wouldn't want to hear any negative news, so no news is good news.

Well, I'll admit to being ignorant about this but it seems odd that when other breeds are negatively affected by the piebald gene that it would be any different for the Yorkie.

Yes, while many faults can be bred out, it seems like breeding for the parti color is rushing headlong into a lot of potential grief. The details of where the gene came from is irrelevant. Why breed FOR a trait that is known to cause health issues?

Here's a link I posted earlier. DEAF PUPPIES. It explain that one cause of deafness is linked to the piebald gene, but it's not 100 percent, and they don't understand how it's transmitted yet. Some of us think because of this, the recessive trait should not be bred. Others think because the dog is pretty, it's ok to breed for it. Then the fights start.

Exactly! That when I usually suggest one motivation might be money.

In my browsing around, it doesn't seem to be that debatable an issue with other breeds. Funny how it brings so much debate with the Yorkie. I just started by googling 'piebald health issues in dogs' and got a ton of info. You would think that the wealth of info for other breeds would be a huge red flag for anyone wanting to breed for that look.

Here's a quote from the Boston Terrier link I posted earlier..."First Part of Deafness Study

This post will attempt to define deafness in dogs as has been discussed on this list. Unless otherwise stated, all references and quotations will be from several published studies by George M. Strain, Professor of Neuroscience, School of Veterinary Medicine, Louisiana State University. Dr. Strain is deemed the leading authority on the subject of deafness in dogs and cats.

Of the eight known classifications of deafness, only three are common in dogs: inherited congenital sensorineural, acquired later-onset sensorineural, and acquired later-onset conductive. It is the inherited congenital sensorineural deafness that we have been discussing on this list.

To quote Dr. Strain: "Inherited congenital sensorineural deafness is usually, but not always, associated with pigmentation genes responsible for white in the coat." This is usually associated with pigmentation patterns-- such as our BTs' white blaze, collar, and chest-- "where increasing amounts of white in the hair coat increases the likelihood of deafness." The two pigmentation genes most often associated with deafness are the merle and the piebald. It is, specifically, the piebald gene that we are concerned with in Boston Terriers. When these piebald genes (responsible for the white) are overly expressed, the other pigment genes normally in the blood supply are repressed. Now this "tainted" blood supply to the cochlea, causes degeneration of the nerve cells, which causes irreversible deafness."

The following are where biewers are shown as a breed of their own....NAKC, IABCA, and ARBA. So no, it is not necessary to register with any of the registeries you've listed above.

Mine aren't registered with BTCA but Frazier has shown under IABCA and will be shown again under NAKC.

That is a good informative post!! Thanks!! I guess only time will tell if this will effect the parti or biewers.

You almost sound happy at the prospect. :(

Yeah, it would make me sooooooooooooooo happy that all of the cute little parti/biewers couldnt hear. That wasnt very nice.:thumbdown:mad:

Not all dogs who are white or parti colored, have hearing problems. There are many breeds with those colors who don't have higher than normal deafness rates in their breed. Deafness is often seen in breeds when there is increased amounts of white colour in the coat and blue eyes . We have not seen problems with the Parti's and they've been breeding now for over 10 years (not that that is a long period of time but you'd suspect we'd be seeing some problems during that length of time?)

I don't think there would be much profit in breeding deaf blind dogs.

While the Biewer has breed clubs, the Parti has none, so who would be gathering the data if there was a connection?

Well the ones I listed were just a few of the over 100 out there.

What breed are they registered as, and which breeds were used to create them?