The Great Debate..."Breeder" or "Backyard Breeder"

[YorkieRose]

Search the archives..there are a number of good posts and pic's about them...basically, in correct coat, but some find they produce dark color in a light line...I have not found a need to do this in order to brign in more color, but then again, it is just my opionion. I could be wrong, but at this age and stage the coat looks RL..

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Marc

That is right. She is not with papers....and a beauty.

No spay or neuter contract.

It depends on where you live....here in Virginia...you can purchase an AKC registered yorkie any day of the week for 800 bucks and under.

Price is actually pretty far down on my list of my must haves for a puppy.

[bjh]

Marc.....I am going to give an example.....say when you were young you made a mistake and got pregnant accidentally, you made a mistake but you still loved your child unconditionally. When your child grows up you would want her to learn from you mistake and you would do everything in your power to protect her and keep her from making the same mistake. Maybe she will listen and maybe she won't but at least you can say you tried.

Many Yorkie breeders are very passionate about protecting the Yorkie breed. Many of us have made mistakes and we have learned from them. Others are still learning. We feel we need to steer new breeders the right way and encourage them to breed responsibly. There are many wonderful breeders on here that do breed pets but they are doing it responsibly and we try to help them all we can but we encourage everyone to think of the welfare of your dog and do your research first. We don't all agree on everything but we are all concerned for the welfare of the dog, whether it is a show yorkie, a pet yorkie or a mix.

[katelin]

Marc, YT is a full-spectrum opinion board. You have been on one end and many others have been on the other end. But there is everything in between here too. That is the beauty of YT.

Good luck.

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by bjh

Marc.....I am going to give an example.....say when you were young you made a mistake and got pregnant accidentally, you made a mistake but you still loved your child unconditionally. When your child grows up you would want her to learn from you mistake and you would do everything in your power to protect her and keep her from making the same mistake. Maybe she will listen and maybe she won't but at least you can say you tried.

Many Yorkie breeders are very passionate about protecting the Yorkie breed. Many of us have made mistakes and we have learned from them. Others are still learning. We feel we need to steer new breeders the right way and encourage them to breed responsibly. There are many wonderful breeders on here that do breed pets but they are doing it responsibly and we try to help them all we can but we encourage everyone to think of the welfare of your dog and do your research first. We don't all agree on everything but we are all concerned for the welfare of the dog, whether it is a show yorkie, a pet yorkie or a mix.

Very well said Barbara! Lee

[topknot]

Wow! I feel like a ping pong ball reading back and forth and...
Marc - you are contradicting yourself. One moment you argue the point about not adding to the pet population and then you say you are contemplating breeding your nonregistered pet beauty girl. Not to pull any judgements - but why would your breeder you got your female from sell her not spayed or with a spay contract and no papers?? What does this say about your breeder?? Just a thought.

JMO - Your girl - just going by the photos - is "pet quality" and most likely should not be bred if you want to protect our breed standard. She seems to have a rough coat, ears down (may be larger in size), and a slightly longer nose. Yes, she is smart and well trained - I saw your video - very cute! I thought by listing her flaws it may help you see the difference. But I am sure she is the love of your life and no reason not to be! Have you thought about putting her through rally (showing). You might have a lot of fun with her doing this.

JMO -
When show people sell any of our pups for pets - we usually have better pet quality than Joe down the road that bred his pet yorkie to another pet yorkie. Show exhibitors want perfection and we try to do the best we can to keep the standard high. So for us a small flaw - may not cut it in our home and we sell them to a good pet home - most of us now spay and neuter or pups before leaving or have tight spay/neuter contracts. This way we do not contribute to the high pet population. At least we are looking at breeding as a science as they did back many years ago to make the standard strong. And if we did not breed for a show hopeful - think of what would happen to the yorkie breed - qulaity may go down, down, down till sooner or later you may end up with a rough coated, short haired, long floppy eared, long body, short legged, puged faced breed, lower in the front with an arch back, with bad bowed out knees, that weighs now typically 30 pounds. Not to mention health problems, because testing was not done before hand. Hmmmmm doesn't sound like a yorkie anymore. Reason to become educated and research on our standard and be very cautious when breeding.

And by the way - show exhibitors do love their yorkies and treat them as loving members of the family. Everyone I know that shows - loves their babies and take very, very good care of them and makes sure they get a lot of love!
I think you may have just had a bad experience the first time and have made your decision based on that one experienced. We are not all like that.
T.

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by topknot

Wow! I feel like a ping pong ball reading back and forth and...
Marc - you are contradicting yourself. One moment you argue the point about not adding to the pet population and then you say you are contemplating breeding your nonregistered pet beauty girl. Not to pull any judgements - but why would your breeder you got your female from sell her not spayed or with a spay contract and no papers?? What does this say about your breeder?? Just a thought.

JMO - Your girl - just going by the photos - is "pet quality" and most likely should not be bred if you want to protect our breed standard. She seems to have a rough coat, ears down (may be larger in size), and a slightly longer nose. Yes, she is smart and well trained - I saw your video - very cute! I thought by listing her flaws it may help you see the difference. But I am sure she is the love of your life and no reason not to be! Have you thought about putting her through rally (showing). You might have a lot of fun with her doing this.

JMO -
When show people sell any of our pups for pets - we usually have better pet quality than Joe down the road that bred his pet yorkie to another pet yorkie. Show exhibitors want perfection and we try to do the best we can to keep the standard high. So for us a small flaw - may not cut it in our home and we sell them to a good pet home - most of us now spay and neuter or pups before leaving or have tight spay/neuter contracts. This way we do not contribute to the high pet population. At least we are looking at breeding as a science as they did back many years ago to make the standard strong. And if we did not breed for a show hopeful - think of what would happen to the yorkie breed - qulaity may go down, down, down till sooner or later you may end up with a rough coated, short haired, long floppy eared, long body, short legged, puged faced breed, lower in the front with an arch back, with bad bowed out knees, that weighs now typically 30 pounds. Not to mention health problems, because testing was not done before hand. Hmmmmm doesn't sound like a yorkie anymore. Reason to become educated and research on our standard and be very cautious when breeding.

And by the way - show exhibitors do love their yorkies and treat them as loving members of the family. Everyone I know that shows - loves their babies and take very, very good care of them and makes sure they get a lot of love!
I think you may have just had a bad experience the first time and have made your decision based on that one experienced. We are not all like that.
T.

[tjdmom]

I guess I'm gonna jump in here too and add my two cents for whatever it is worth. I really do understand your wanting to find out if this is for you as far as breeding goes. It's something I have always wanted to do and maybe someday but I must say that I feel the need to really research and make sure that if I do breed in the future, it is for the right reasons. I would never ever breed a yorkie who was not show quality because in my mind, if you are going to do this you have to be sure you are doing it the "right" way. Now I'm sure everyone might have different definitions of what "right" is but in my mind that means above all never breeding a yorkie who had any kind of health problems in their lines and only breeding a show quality dog. I look at many pictures and try to look at my dog with a really unbiased eye but since I love her and I think she is absolutely the best doggie ever , I'm not always sure I do that. I am actually having her evaluated by someone locally and I really really want to start showing her so I hope they give me the thumbs up. I also would personally never breed an unregistered pup. I think if this is something you really really want to do, that would be great but please make sure you are doing it the right way and for the right reasons. No matter what you decide, I do think this has been an interesting thread and I have enjoyed reading it.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by SladesMommy

I have no problem w/ mixes.. if they are adopted/rescued from a shelter or rescue. I have 4 various mixes at my house that i love very much. however, i think it does a great disservice to all the breeds when mixes are purposely breed. There are MILLIONS of mixes dying in shelters each year..yes, including yorkie mixes. My Schatzie (yorkie/chi) mix was scheduled to be killed the day I adopted her, she had been there a couple weeks with NO interest... and she was a young (btwn 9mnths and year), small, healthy, 'designer' mix, with no behavior problems.

I have no problems with people who adopt these mixes, but you better believe I have major problems with people who breed them!

It's not the fact that it is a mix that puts them in a shelter....its s**tty owners who got into something they couldn't handle (puppy)and so on. The poodle/pom in the shelter isn't there cause he's a mix....hes' there because of irresponsible humans.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Olivier

What test did your dog have had ?

I havent tested her....cause I'm not breeding her at this point. I used the tests as example that both breeder and pet owner were taking the same measures.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by bjh

Well, like they say....beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If I am reading that comment correctly....that is very rude. Very rude. Though I am "playing" the other side of this debate....you WILL NOT see me insult ANYONES pup. Not ever.

[C C Kent]

Before we stipulate that research is necessary and move on, shouldn't we define the type of research necessary to produce a quality puppy?

I'm curious how you would go about researching an unpapered specimen?

For that matter how would you research a papered specimen with no champions? How much information will you be able to gather on " the lady with the pet yorkies" line? What type of information are you likely to find on these dogs that would encourage you to reproduce from them?

[Marc]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

This is no doubt where it all goes south...but MARC..your girls is a nice pet, but she is what breeders call a "RED LEGS" IMO.. some breeders are fine using that type for breeding, but it is NOT a good quality to reproduce and 95% avoid them in their breeding program...I cast no stones on those who do, I am sure I have made choices some breeders disagree with also....

no papers is a huge stumbling block to an ethical breeder..BUT this is your dog, to do you as you please, without anyone here passing judgement...the type of label you want as a breeder is a free choice..best wishes

How, pray tell, can you decide what kind she is by a picture of her at barely three months old? Not even I who cuddles her can tell yet what kind of coat she will.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by topknot

Wow! I feel like a ping pong ball reading back and forth and...
Marc - you are contradicting yourself. One moment you argue the point about not adding to the pet population and then you say you are contemplating breeding your nonregistered pet beauty girl. Not to pull any judgements - but why would your breeder you got your female from sell her not spayed or with a spay contract and no papers?? What does this say about your breeder?? Just a thought.

JMO - Your girl - just going by the photos - is "pet quality" and most likely should not be bred if you want to protect our breed standard. She seems to have a rough coat, ears down (may be larger in size), and a slightly longer nose. Yes, she is smart and well trained - I saw your video - very cute! I thought by listing her flaws it may help you see the difference. But I am sure she is the love of your life and no reason not to be! Have you thought about putting her through rally (showing). You might have a lot of fun with her doing this.

JMO -
When show people sell any of our pups for pets - we usually have better pet quality than Joe down the road that bred his pet yorkie to another pet yorkie. Show exhibitors want perfection and we try to do the best we can to keep the standard high. So for us a small flaw - may not cut it in our home and we sell them to a good pet home - most of us now spay and neuter or pups before leaving or have tight spay/neuter contracts. This way we do not contribute to the high pet population. At least we are looking at breeding as a science as they did back many years ago to make the standard strong. And if we did not breed for a show hopeful - think of what would happen to the yorkie breed - qulaity may go down, down, down till sooner or later you may end up with a rough coated, short haired, long floppy eared, long body, short legged, puged faced breed, lower in the front with an arch back, with bad bowed out knees, that weighs now typically 30 pounds. Not to mention health problems, because testing was not done before hand. Hmmmmm doesn't sound like a yorkie anymore. Reason to become educated and research on our standard and be very cautious when breeding.

And by the way - show exhibitors do love their yorkies and treat them as loving members of the family. Everyone I know that shows - loves their babies and take very, very good care of them and makes sure they get a lot of love!
I think you may have just had a bad experience the first time and have made your decision based on that one experienced. We are not all like that.
T.

I'm not contridicting myself. I was using pet breeders breeding pets and "breeders" faulted for the ring and sold as pets as an equal example to show that both people are contributing to the population of pets.

My pup is not large at all. She is nearly 4 months now and is 2.8 pounds. Her ears popped up at just over 3 months (one first then the other a week later) without trimming. Her coat is growing and the colors are changing nicely. I have yet to figure out what kind of coat she has....as she is still a pup and I am still learning. So, she's not big, ears are up and has a growing coat. No problems there. She's sweet.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by tjdmom

I guess I'm gonna jump in here too and add my two cents for whatever it is worth. I really do understand your wanting to find out if this is for you as far as breeding goes. It's something I have always wanted to do and maybe someday but I must say that I feel the need to really research and make sure that if I do breed in the future, it is for the right reasons. I would never ever breed a yorkie who was not show quality because in my mind, if you are going to do this you have to be sure you are doing it the "right" way. Now I'm sure everyone might have different definitions of what "right" is but in my mind that means above all never breeding a yorkie who had any kind of health problems in their lines and only breeding a show quality dog. I look at many pictures and try to look at my dog with a really unbiased eye but since I love her and I think she is absolutely the best doggie ever , I'm not always sure I do that. I am actually having her evaluated by someone locally and I really really want to start showing her so I hope they give me the thumbs up. I also would personally never breed an unregistered pup. I think if this is something you really really want to do, that would be great but please make sure you are doing it the right way and for the right reasons. No matter what you decide, I do think this has been an interesting thread and I have enjoyed reading it.

Never be fooled into thinking show lines don't have health problems. In fact ask the experts where they think a lot of this stuff we see is coming from. I mean the big research people that studying these diseases. Then it goes right on down the line. Every pedigree you see almost has two or three of the top show yorkies in the world in them (or at least the ones I see). these yorkies have long been dead yet they are showing up in the fifth generation of almost every pedigree there is. These 'top' yorkies were apparently bred to almost anyone that came along and a lot of the problems we are seeing today can be traced back to them. Almost every pet pedigree we look at, one or two names are always there.