The Great Debate..."Breeder" or "Backyard Breeder"

[KYBLUE]

Why Don't You Post A Picture Of This Girl You Are Wanting To Breed

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by KYBLUE

YOU NEED TO DO YOUR MATH 3X1500 IS 4500 NOT 7500
AND WHAT I STATED IS A LOW QUOTE AND NO I DO NOT MAKE A PROFIT
IT GOES FOR DOG FOOD AND FUTURE VET CARE OF MY OTHER DOGS IT IS NOT MONEY I CAN JUST THROW AWAY AND WHAT IF I HAVE TO REFUND A PUPS PRICE BECAUSE OF AN UNSEEN PROBLEM

Technically, it is a profit from that particular litter. You make a great point, though, that profit from one litter does not necessarily mean profit in the big picture. Like any "business" (if we are calling it that), to really come out ahead you have to make a profit over the long-term. I can see where a breeder who does their own dew-claw removal, tail docking, etc. and lives in an area where vet care is less expensive (and does not have show expenses) can make a profit over the long-term. Even factoring in necessary health testing it could be done (again assuming less expensive vet care). But in areas where vet care is very expensive, it would be much more difficult to come out ahead financially.

I don't think the OP was asking for a critique of his girl, as stated not even sure if they will breed her. My impression was that the OP wanted to throw out common questions/opinions and hear from all sides. Just my impression, though, I could easily be wrong. It has happened before!

[Olivier]

Originally Posted by Marc

I do realize that by posting in the "side" I am posting it looks like I am doggin' on breeders. I totally have nothing against a good breeder OR a responsible pet owner breeding.

I am being careful..trust me,lol. And I'm glad you added that bit at the end cause whatever decisions I make will also have my yorkie in mind..I love her as well.

You don't impressed me at all with your questions .

What are the lines in your yorkie's pedigree ? What is your goal in breeding ? What will be your accomplishments in 5 years from now ?

[Olivier]

PS..one last thing..it makes me want to scream at the top of my lungs when a breeder says..."I do not breed show dogs, just pets, so these things are not important"...GRRRRRRRRRRRR...breeding to the standard as closely as possible and to improve is the only ethical reason to breed IMO..we owe it to the breed we love so much...why short change them?[/QUOTE]

I agree 120 % with you .

[Marc]

Originally Posted by KYBLUE

Why Don't You Post A Picture Of This Girl You Are Wanting To Breed

My profile pic has my girl and so does my gallery. She's a great pup! BTW, we haven't really decided that we would breed her in the years to come. I posted earlier that I would be posting as such for debate sake.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by BakersDozen

Technically, it is a profit from that particular litter. You make a great point, though, that profit from one litter does not necessarily mean profit in the big picture. Like any "business" (if we are calling it that), to really come out ahead you have to make a profit over the long-term. I can see where a breeder who does their own dew-claw removal, tail docking, etc. and lives in an area where vet care is less expensive (and does not have show expenses) can make a profit over the long-term. Even factoring in necessary health testing it could be done (again assuming less expensive vet care). But in areas where vet care is very expensive, it would be much more difficult to come out ahead financially.

I don't think the OP was asking for a critique of his girl, as stated not even sure if they will breed her. My impression was that the OP wanted to throw out common questions/opinions and hear from all sides. Just my impression, though, I could easily be wrong. It has happened before!

Yes, even where I live..one vet to another is so different in pricing. That is very true!

You are right...I am just throwing questions out there to hopefully gain insight as well as have both sides maybe "learn" a little about each side. I am hoping it can remain all good, lol. Some really great points have been made already and a few posters stated that it is a great thread. That's all I wanted.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Olivier

You don't impressed me at all with your questions .

What are the lines in your yorkie's pedigree ? What is your goal in breeding ? What will be your accomplishments in 5 years from now ?

I'm not really here to impress. I hope you are not too dissapointed with that. I am a very new yorkie owner so I am just learning about them in greater detail. This particular thread and it's topic is just another part of learning.

I have no goal in breeding cause I haven't decided if I will or not. Should we choose to breed her....I would not become a "full-time" breeder or anyting of that sort so in 5 years I will have my girl and be just as happy as I am today. If we did breed her we would research, give it one try and see how it goes and such. No real plans here...like I stated earlier.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by KYBLUE

YOU NEED TO DO YOUR MATH 3X1500 IS 4500 NOT 7500
AND WHAT I STATED IS A LOW QUOTE AND NO I DO NOT MAKE A PROFIT
IT GOES FOR DOG FOOD AND FUTURE VET CARE OF MY OTHER DOGS IT IS NOT MONEY I CAN JUST THROW AWAY AND WHAT IF I HAVE TO REFUND A PUPS PRICE BECAUSE OF AN UNSEEN PROBLEM

Silly me. Math has never been my strong point, lol.

Uh, no need for the upper case yelling, ha. I am not here to ruffle feathers.

[YorkieRose]

..we get so many new members, so the "long timers" will have to ignore me.....
The breed we all love and adore on this forum is the Yorkie...what makes a Yorkie a Yorkie? A Yorkie is not a Poodle or a Maltese when the breeder uses the standard as their "recipe"...
I was reading another forum and several breeders said.."this is all fine for you, but we breed pets, so adhering to the standard is unimportant for pets...the pet lover is going to be very upset if they pay good money for a Yorkie and the breeder has no clue as to what one is suppose to look or act like...you can only water down milk so many times...soon it is water and is no longer milk.

A breeder who is dedicated and strives to produce the best of the best each time is very valuable to the breed...this is the area where I see a difference in the types of breeders there are, rather then backyard, show, hobby, miller.

[Tammyh]

Originally Posted by BakersDozen

Since I dont yet own a Yorkie, I'm not going to comment....and also because my opinions are so varied on this topic. But I just have to pop in and say that, though it's true in many ways this is repeated information, I find this to be one of the most informative threads! Responses have been to the point and tactful at the same time, which makes it really easy to learn from and understand different points of view. I have gleaned some new ways of looking at things from this thread, and look forward to more. Thanks to everyone!

I agree, this is a great thread. There's no "attacking", it's very refreshing especially since this is such an important topic. I too am getting a lot out of it

[RebelBelle]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

...you can only water down milk so many times...soon it is water and is no longer milk.

A breeder who is dedicated and strives to produce the best of the best each time is very valuable to the breed...this is the area where I see a difference in the types of breeders there are, rather then backyard, show, hobby, miller.

Pat, I think that says it perfectly.

As stictly an owner, I think that my Jamie is absolutely perfect... for me! But I know that his bite is off. Which according to the standard is a flaw. Even though I don't chance losing my baby by breeding him with a female, I see no reason to breed a flaw into a whole new litter of puppies. Is it a huge flaw that would make a puppy unwanted? No. But lets say his puppies had an underbite and off coloring, then the owner of those puppies wanted to have just one litter a piece. Then all those puppies could have 3 flaws and then the cycle just continues. Even if a breeder doesn't want to show, their dams and sires should be show quality. That is what keeps yorkies as close as possible to the standard.

I can say that I read the Breeder section alot (just because it's interesting). While I don't know that the way they go about it is always right, alot of the longtime members and breeders only get upset with people who ask questions too late or don't seem to be listening to advice that is given. I have seen several "new breeders" welcomed with open arms as it was clear that they were doing their research and planned on breeding to the standard.

BTW Marc I think this thread is going well!

[Gingergirlsmom]

I'm happy that this post has remained civil. There is a lot of good information here.

Most of us are not born understanding the pitfalls of careless breeding. I have been a dog person my entire life. As a child my bookshelves were filled with books on dogs, and my dog was always at my side. As an adult, I've made dogs a big part of my daily life.

But, I did not grow up in the world of show dogs (never even went to a dog show until I was in my late 30's), or breeding. So...the first inkling I had that there was a problem with irresponsible breeding was when I did a paper on the humane society in college. Even then, there was little information out there.

It wasn't until the internet came along with sites like YT that I really began to understand the big picture. I learned through reading and talking with others. I did not learn by getting hit over the head with a ton of well meaning bricks. No, I never, never thought about breeding. But, I have been guilty of purchasing pups from byb and petstores. All of this information goes hand in hand to getting the general public to understand.

This thread is interesting, informative, civil and gives a lot of good information to others who might be wondering about the ethics of breeding.

[Marc]

What is the ratio of pups in a litter (from responsible breeders)that are sold as pets (not meeting standard or otherwise) vs sold as show dogs meeting standards?

[Marc]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

..we get so many new members, so the "long timers" will have to ignore me.....
The breed we all love and adore on this forum is the Yorkie...what makes a Yorkie a Yorkie? A Yorkie is not a Poodle or a Maltese when the breeder uses the standard as their "recipe"...
I was reading another forum and several breeders said.."this is all fine for you, but we breed pets, so adhering to the standard is unimportant for pets...the pet lover is going to be very upset if they pay good money for a Yorkie and the breeder has no clue as to what one is suppose to look or act like...you can only water down milk so many times...soon it is water and is no longer milk.

A breeder who is dedicated and strives to produce the best of the best each time is very valuable to the breed...this is the area where I see a difference in the types of breeders there are, rather then backyard, show, hobby, miller.

This is fair. Let me ask this is response....if I breed my girl (assuming she is pet level and not perfect in breed) with another yorkie (standard or flawed in a small way)...and advertise and sell them to good families who love them....is there anything wrong with that in the "breeder" world?

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Tammyh

I agree, this is a great thread. There's no "attacking", it's very refreshing especially since this is such an important topic. I too am getting a lot out of it

Great to hear! I am learning as well.