Reputable Parti Breeders?

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Lest anyone think I am bias to standards..I happen to have German Biewer myself..

HaHa - I wondered if you were ever going to come out of the closet!

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I would think that instead of bashing those breeders, ones time would be better spent in working with the parti breeders to help them find a place of their own. Because they are here to stay, and this discussion can go on for the next 100 years and it is not going to change that fact.

Awww...I don't think that anyone is trying to 'bash' breeders of non-standard colors--just those who do it to make a quick buck off something different, which happens all too often these days. The problem is, you have many people doing just that and then try to avoid criticism by saying "I'm working to promote it as a recognized standard" but then they can't tell you WHAT exactly they are doing to work towards it. Their answer is something like "I'm making sure my dogs are healthy." OK, great--that means NOTHING in the long run of getting anything recognized. It won't happen by focusing your attention on your first gen of off-color dogs and never expanding your drive beyond your own dogs and household. You can't do it working on your own, as you ladies realize. But you ladies and your efforts you say you are making are a small minority.
I think it is the other side that is getting the "bashing" so to speak.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

HaHa - I wondered if you were ever going to come out of the closet!

LOL...as another Biewer owner, should I come out and join her too!?

[YorkieRose]

I didn't know I was in the closet...I posted on YT when I got Bella...I also posted I lost interest in them..and placed her with a good friend in MD.. I think they are wonderful dogs, but not for me. I respect the Biewer breeders and all they do...(I find the coats more Maltese then Yorkie) and that is only my opinion...
In return for Bella I was recently given a female from her first litter... This female is not for sale..she will be "placed" with someone I trust and may be bred..stud owners permission given.

Anything, you want to know about me just ask...

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I understand your frustration to feeling like your question(s) hasn't recieved a strait answer.

I would think the reason the off-color and the black/gold recieve a different reception is because it was only very recently that these colors were deemed 'unacceptable.' Until very recently they were considered standard. You have long standing pedigrees that have these colors variations heavily throughout. They can still be integrated into breedings to bring out desired richness in color and to correct colors that have strayed in an effort to achieve that perfect, standard that is accepted. I would think that as breedings progress, now that they are NOT accepted colors, you will see them being used less and less.
On the other hand, the partis, chocs, goldens, have NEVER been accepted colors. They can not be integrated back into breedings to try to acheive the standard.

At least, that is my take on why...just one opinion of many, I'm sure...

The thing is, black and gold, black and tan and blue and gold adults, have NEVER been the standard, even back to the early written set of standards, it was always blue and tan. So maybe there was an "unspoken" acceptance of black coats in the show ring?

By breeding black coated dogs (who lack the gene for greying) to blue dogs who are not homozygous for the grey gene, you'll be producing puppies with black coats and that should be just as wrong as breeding any other off color ... shouldn't it? Yet it doesn't seem to be for some reason?

And why wouldn't YTCA set an age limit on when a dog must turn blue by? I mean if someone is showing a 2 yo who is jet black without a blue hair on it's body, don't you think that may be a clue that it's going to have a black coat and not a blue one?

It seems that the black coats and golden points have been accepted and allowed to show until October 1 2007, even though those colors were never an adult standard according to the YTCA's rules even from way back.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

It seems that the black coats and golden points have been accepted and allowed to show until October 1 2007, even though those colors were never an adult standard according to the YTCA's rules even from way back.

Point in case...they were accepted until Oct 1, 2007--very recently. The partis, chocs and goldens NEVER were. I think that is why you get more criticism. That was your question, wasn't it?

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I did not see my post as bashing these breeders...if I was a Parti breeder I would not list breeders lines without asking..No, let me back up...I do not recall ever using the names of others kennels to make me look reputable..if you ask me what lines I have bred into, I will be happy to tell you...but to advertize your puppies are from lines other then your own without the breeders permission stinks IMO...

I have seen it happen so often...a puppy is from a line 3 or 4 genereations previous, but the seller has no problem stating the puppy is Durrers or Rothby..etc...there was a litter recently from the "famous" CC Higgins...talk about digging for gold...it had to be 4 or 5 lines back on the pedigree...

Lest anyone think I am bias to standards..I happen to have German Biewer myself..

The Nikko's line of parti is no secret. I was reluctant to post their name the first time I posted about the parti color (check back to some of my first posts). While I won't stipulate or announce where I feel some of the other parti lines are coming from, because there are no absolute and undeniable proof, the Nikkos lines are out in the open.

If someone says to me, "there has never been a show breeder who's been breeding for 30 or 40 years who's produced a parti color", and I'm not allowed to back my statements up with documented facts, than what's the use of having forums like this one in the first place? And I'm not talking that the Nikkos line was 3 and 4 generations back, I'm talking the sire of my parti is Nikko's Russian Roulette and dam is Nikko's Magic in the Night - he's solid Nikkos breeding!

So No Gold diggin going on here, just stating the facts, Ma'am ;-)

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Awww...I don't think that anyone is trying to 'bash' breeders of non-standard colors--just those who do it to make a quick buck off something different, which happens all too often these days. The problem is, you have many people doing just that and then try to avoid criticism by saying "I'm working to promote it as a recognized standard" but then they can't tell you WHAT exactly they are doing to work towards it. Their answer is something like "I'm making sure my dogs are healthy." OK, great--that means NOTHING in the long run of getting anything recognized. It won't happen by focusing your attention on your first gen of off-color dogs and never expanding your drive beyond your own dogs and household. You can't do it working on your own, as you ladies realize. But you ladies and your efforts you say you are making are a small minority.
I think it is the other side that is getting the "bashing" so to speak.

The "bashing" wasn't the point that I was making. The point is that disapproving of the reproducing of these dog is not going to make them go away. They are here to stay, so time would be better spent in actually helping them to find a place rather than trying to stop their reproduction.

The YTCA can stand their ground and grumble about them all they want, it appears to be a real issue with them. Why not do what they can to help the parti breeders get their own breed started rather than to fight it.

They will be fighting it until the end of time, cause they are here to stay. It's not just a fad that will die out. If left to go unchecked they will turn into a breed that is unrecognizeable as a yorkie, yet they will still be yorkies.

IMO the YTCA is adding to the problem not resolving it. If they were to allow them to be shown as yorkies of a different color they would have control over the standard. They are a foolish foolish group of people in total denial of the facts.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

The Nikko's line of parti is no secret. I was reluctant to post their name the first time I posted about the parti color (check back to some of my first posts). While I won't stipulate or announce where I feel some of the other parti lines are coming from, because there are no absolute and undeniable proof, the Nikkos lines are out in the open.

True...but that is ONE line. How many so called parti-breeders are out there breeding from this line?

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

If someone says to me, "there has never been a show breeder who's been breeding for 30 or 40 years who's produced a parti color",

I get your point, but I also get the reasoning behind this statement being made. Again, you are a minority when you consider how many people are breeding off color Yorkies. The majority of those we see are NOT 30 or 40 yr breeding vets, nor did they get their parti stock from those who were. They are dime a dozen scammers, so for the most part, the statment applies.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Point in case...they were accepted until Oct 1, 2007--very recently. The partis, chocs and goldens NEVER were. I think that is why you get more criticism. That was your question, wasn't it?

I'm glad you agree that the black and golds were accepted until October 1, 2007 ... BUT please review the YTCA's standards prior to that date, and earlier years and you will find that it clearly states that the adults color is and always has been Blue and tan and that any color other than that was not to standard.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

They are here to stay, so time would be better spent in actually helping them to find a place rather than trying to stop their reproduction....Why not do what they can to help the parti breeders get their own breed started rather than to fight it.

Because as it currently stands, they aren't being presented with anything that can be considered worthy of consideration for making a change I realize YOUR efforts and those of Sue, but it's going to take unity and alot more numbers to get serious consideration. You guys are a small minority as it stands. Do you honestly expect a small handful, with the beginnings of the information and research needed to be taken seriously by anyone at this point? There has not been a large scale agreement made on standards, or wide range genetic and DNA testing enough to back a push for it...YET. I fully believe there will be, if there are enough people willing to go about it the right way, but that has not happened yet.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

I'm glad you agree that the black and golds were accepted until October 1, 2007 ... BUT please review the YTCA's standards prior to that date, and earlier years and you will find that it clearly states that the adults color is and always has been Blue and tan and that any color other than that was not to standard.

I am fully aware of that. That was not part of your question that I was answering though. I know of many breeders with those colors throughout their lines, but they are still producing offspring that meet the accepted standard. I cannot say the same for the off-colors.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

The Nikko's line of parti is no secret. I was reluctant to post their name the first time I posted about the parti color (check back to some of my first posts). While I won't stipulate or announce where I feel some of the other parti lines are coming from, because there are no absolute and undeniable proof, the Nikkos lines are out in the open.

If someone says to me, "there has never been a show breeder who's been breeding for 30 or 40 years who's produced a parti color", and I'm not allowed to back my statements up with documented facts, than what's the use of having forums like this one in the first place? And I'm not talking that the Nikkos line was 3 and 4 generations back, I'm talking the sire of my parti is Nikko's Russian Roulette and dam is Nikko's Magic in the Night - he's solid Nikkos breeding!

So No Gold diggin going on here, just stating the facts, Ma'am ;-)

AND

The great grandsire to my Chachi ( a carrier) is Nikko's Mickey Spillane, the first registered parti colored yorkie. They made no secret of their existance. These dog were not sold to unscrupulous people who bred the partis by accident and then registered them.

They were products of two purebred yorkies, why should they not be registered.

Those show breeders who have secretly sold off or given away, their parti colors and denied their existance are the disreputable ones, because if they lie about that, what else might they lie about, just to get that next Champion.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

IMO the YTCA is adding to the problem not resolving it. If they were to allow them to be shown as yorkies of a different color they would have control over the standard. They are a foolish foolish group of people in total denial of the facts.

They have control over the standard as it is. The problem is, how are they going to control the parti standard when there isn't one in existance. And only a small handful of people working ethically towards one and none of them have even come to an agreement or proposal for one. They are not denying "facts"--they haven't been presented with enough for it to even be seriously considered.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

True...but that is ONE line. How many so called parti-breeders are out there breeding from this line?



I get your point, but I also get the reasoning behind this statement being made. Again, you are a minority when you consider how many people are breeding off color Yorkies. The majority of those we see are NOT 30 or 40 yr breeding vets, nor did they get their parti stock from those who were. They are dime a dozen scammers, so for the most part, the statment applies.

How can you say that the majority of parti breeders are scammers? Do you know a lot of parti breeders and or spoken in depth with many?? I only ask this because it seems like an extreme think to say on your part. I am a future parti breeder and I have spoken with other breeders and have gotten to know other parti breeders. The ones that I know,along with myself, only have parti Yorkies that come from the Nikko line.



Tammy