Thanks for asking.. here is a photo of Irish Rose and Indee, one of the girls and one of the boys and a photo of some of the past and future "moms" helping out with this current litter ..

-Diana :animal-pa

Excuse me, I have one of Gayles babies, and let me tell you what, she's the most beautiful BIEWER(AND YES, I SAID BIEWER AS THAT'S WHAT SHE IS A BIEWER TERRIER) she's NOT trying to pass off a mixed breed as a biewer. All I can see from you is jealousy, becuase the biewers are so much cuter(I think anyway) than the overpriced partis. The biewers are a breed of their own, they are NOT a parti, a parti(as all of you say) are a yorkie that is rare(LOL) that is way over priced.

No one is questioning The Biewer's Yorkies. As a matter of fact, Mrs. Biewer told us of many breeders taking shortcuts.

Every dog in the world was bred with something to get the breed they are now, except for a maltese. I'm sorry, but, I think the partis and biewers most likely had maltese in them and other dogs. Don't think that it was because of a piebald gene, or they would have shown up long ago. Do you think that all breeders are reputable and keep an eye on their bitches 24/7 when they're in heat? I'm telling you, Gayle is very intelligent, she has done plenty of studying on the breed, she is trying to get her dogs as perfect as possible, and believe me, I think she's there. I've never seen such beautiful babies as what she has right now, and if I was able too, i would take another one of hers in a heartbeat. I think with you, it sounds like jealousy

If your dog is a yorkie, then why to me, does it NOT look like a yorkie(even though it's white), it doesn't look like a purebred yorkie to me:rolleyes::confused:

The "standard signed by Mrs. Biewer" is something I see brought up quite a bit, yet I don't understand how it adds to anyone's credibility?

"ALMOST identical?" If is is not identical to the one the Biewer Terrier advocates are using, why does it matter? That would make it incorrect per BTCA standards, correct? Essentially nothing more than an outdated standard? Why would you expect any organization to be using an outdated standard?

The Biewers proclaimed that their dogs were of YT decent, correct? I'm assuming that the standard Mrs. Biewer wrote was not for a dog referred to as a Biewer Terrier that is composed of multiple breeders, as the claim goes, but for the dogs she helped to introduce that were 'pure Yorkie?' Or was she lying/incorrect about what they introduced?

Does she support the breeding of Biewer Terriers and the claim that they are not pure Yorkie?

I guess in short is, why would anything written and signed, by Mrs. Biewer, a founder of the "breed" grant any credibility to an organization not promoting what the breed founders introduced?

This is something I have been curious about to. If the Biewer Terriers are not purebred, but a combination of other breeds, as the claim goes, then what is the specific combination of breeds that is acceptable in order to qualify as a Biewer Terrier? How is it determined if a dog is a Biewer Terrier or any other randomly mixed breed dog? Are all the dogs being referred to as BT's composed of the same breeds? What are they? Is there a specific ratio of breed to breed required in order for a dog to be considered a BT?

OMG how cute is that. The one on the left with her butt to the camera looks like my Harlie. Congratulations.

You have said this before but different websites say they don't know? I think it is interesting that on the AKC website the Maltese can have different colors.

American Kennel Club - Breed Colors and Markings

house of maltese; breed originated 8,000 years ago; The Kennel Club; Maltese dog";

About the Maltese Breed -- Maltese History and Origin

Maltese (dog) Origin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_(dog)

The Maltese is thought to have been descended from a Spitz type dog found among the Swiss Lake dwellers and bred down to obtain its small size. Although there is also some evidence that the breed originated in Asia and is related to the Tibetan Terrier, the exact origin is unknown [6]. Maltese are generally associated with the island of Malta in the Mediterranean Sea. The dogs probably made their way to Europe through the Middle East with the migration of nomadic tribes. Some writers believe these proto-Maltese were used for rodent control and pig herding. [7][8] before the appearance of the breed gained paramount importance. The Isle of Malta (or Melitae as it was then known) was a geographic center of early trade, and explorers undoubtedly found ancestors of the tiny, white dogs left there as barter for necessities and supplies. The dogs were favored by the wealthy and royalty alike and were bred over time to specifically be a companion animal. In fact, the Maltese were so favored by the Roman emperors, they chose to breed them to be pure white - something they considered a 'sacred color'. Before then, there were other light colors that Maltese come in - still seen again at the puppy stage, normally.

yes the biewers are a breed of their own, because the Biewer efamily developed them from T wo pure bred yorkshire terriers. and no matter what you or Gayle say. that fact will no changge. so call them what you want. it makes no difference.

Gayle is the one that is claiming they are not yorkshires, she has yet to explain what they are. so if you have a problem with the fact that they are not purebreds, take it up with her.

You cannot just take a breed and change the name and claim that you have a different breed. Yopu have to know where it came from, which dog were used to create this new breed, when was it created?

If you can ot answer those questions and prove it, then you have Biewer yorkshire terrier a la pon pon.


What on earth do I have to be jealous about.

The Biewer is a beautiful dog, and if i wanted one, i would have one. But for me a dog that is not AKC registered is just a dog. My partis are registered as yorkshire terriers. There is such a variety of looks, some being marked very much like the Biewer. Some like more white, some like more black. I like them all.

so are you sayhing that YOUR particular yorkies are from those that took sortcuts and that i why they are not yorkies?

If that is what you are saying, then what are they. where did they come from, what dogs were used to produce them? If that is the case, i don't see them as any different than any other designer dog.

Yes I agree. so what is you point?

Even the Maltese started out as a wolf. it is very likely thast the maltese is part of the yorkshire terrier makeup because. Way back before they were called yorkshire terriers they were all registered as Broken haired Scotch and Yorkshire terriers.

In 1863, a Mr Mandeville, a maltese breeder, showed a dog named Prince. Prince had been registered as both a Broken-haired Scotch and a Yorkshire terrier.

I'm sure that I wouild agree that Gayle has beautiful dogs. But without knowing what they are or when, who, and hnow theyf were developed. They are just like any other mixed breed dog.

Not questioning Gayles intelligence. Her breeding ethics or anything else about her. Just wondering why she won't tell us more about where her dogs came from.

And why would i be jealous? If I wanted a biewer, I would buy one. But I want to know what my dogs are and where they came from. without that history it is just another beautiful dog.

And you have a right to think that. That proves nothing except that you don't think they look like yorkies.

Sue posted her results and this is the first time I have seen any actual documentation. Which we all appreciate.
I would be interested in seeing other results posted. In a past post a BTCA member mentioned her results but didnt post any documents. Here's a link to that post. It seems her results were Yorkshire Terrier & Maltese

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/2041325-post77.html

So good question would be.. what other breeds have shown up with the Mars testing.

Good Point

Has anyone asked her to endorse the "Biewer Terrier" as a separate breed?

Diana.. your Biewer babies are adorable.. what great coloration.You have got to be thrilled with this litter, they certainly are beautiful. Congrats:thumbup:

I have asked that question repeatedly. never have gotten an answer.

I've never questioned her claim about the maltese being the only pure dog, or whatever it is she is claiming, because I did not take the time to research the information, So I am glad that some one took the time.

But since all dogs came from wolves, i had my dolubts that all of a sudden a wolf prodeced a dog that looked like a maltese without going through some selective breeding.

The best way for the other clubs to get a better understanding of these tests and what they mean is to get all of their members to test their dogs. The BTCA spent thousands of dollars and tested over 100 dogs from every line here in America. Now there are some that don't want to spend the monies to find out what is the genetic make up of their dogs and want the BTCA to "give" them the results.
Worse yet, there are others that don't even have an inkling of what the tests mean or how genetics work and are on here trying to make an argument by looking up words in the dictionary. This is comparing apples to oranges.
Until a signature is developed for a breed it will show as a mixed breed. The majority of modern day purebreds are a combination of more than 2 breeds.
So long as there are dog fanciers there will continue to be development of new breeds.

OK as to your first statement.* i don't know how it applies to my post since that post was all questions.* No statements of fact.*

Paragraph 2* HUH?* What did I interpret.* I made no statements i asked qestions.

Paragraph 3* What misinformation?* Just because you do not agree with the facts dose not make it misinformtion.* And I am asking you to explain.* In fact I have asked repeatedly and you have not answered.* so if you have the answers why are't you sharing them.

Paragraph 4* again I did not interpret anything you said, i asked for clarification.* I did not say "So you are saying"* that would be a statement.* I said "So are you saying"* That is a question.

You say you speak English, then you should know the difference between a statement and a question.* Which you still have not answered.Now on the other hand if you speak Spanish, they do phrase their questions in the form of a statment, and clarify it by putting a question mark at* the beginning.

Jeanie,
?Hablas espanol? De que parte de espana eres? O de qual paiz?

I see Sue has not come back with any other results, why is that? Jan you might want to ask Nancy for the results on her dogs that we paid to have tested.

For those that are wondering about what Mrs. Biewer feels, I will tell you. She is highly disturbed by the registrations that Dagmar is issuing on dogs that are being produced by designer dogs breeders. She was even more shocked that Dagmar has her listed as a member of the IBC, when she wants nothing to do with her. She was astounded over the fact that Sue Williams had the audacity to try to tell her what she should do and how she should think. She is wondering who the heck this person thinks she is.

What people fail to realize, is that we have tremendous support from highly respected people in the prominent dog community. Vicious attempts to slander the BTCA are constantly brought to our attention.

We talk to Mrs. Biewer practically every week, and she is fully aware of what we are doing. She knows we call the dog a Biewer Terrier and stands behind us 100%. She feels we are doing everything right for the breed and hopes to see this beautiful breed brought to perfection.

My, my, my, yes I'm posting for the first time. And yes, I'm a Biewer Terrier breeder and a Yorkshire Terrier breeder (the reason I am on YorkieTalk). And no, BBCI, I don't mix the breeds. I have been reading YorkieTalk forum for a long time. A wealth of information is always to be gained on this forum. How sad though as I read through this "parti" thread how close minded many of you are. You are in limbo because of your closed minds, and you can scream all you want that you know what you have. PROVE IT! You’re constantly disagreeing, for the sake of disagreeing, but let me say this, you must be very careful when developing a new breed. At least I see one club doing just that. Right before your eyes you are seeing a new breed being developed. Who do you know of in the history of breed development has put over 100 dogs to genetic testing? Who cares if MARS tells you they test out Yorkshire terrier. Can you not go beyond that? Somewhere the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la pom pon was bred to what is now identifying itself to that having a genetic marker. As we move forward in dedicated breeding programs and mix our tested “Biewer Terriers” with our tested “Yorkshire Terriers” or as you call them our Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la pom pon, the genetic marker becomes stronger (Genetics 101). More offspring will be identified under this marker. BBCI people, you too have Biewer Terriers. As you continue to sell your offspring to breeders who have stronger “genetically marked Biewer Terriers” the purebred Biewer Terrier becomes more established. Why are some having such difficulty understanding this? I have a harder time understanding how some can outright say on their websites they have this “impeccable line.” YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE. You have somebody else’s line. Once you have established 3 to 4 generations of your own breeding, then debate!

As far as the parti-yorkie, you have just that. It has already been genetically via DNA tested to be a Yorkshire Terrier with the wrong colors.

Gayle, Why won't you answer the questions that many of us have asked?

What is your dog a product of, if not Yorkshire Terriers?

Which registry are the Biewer Terriers registered with, and which breed are they registered as?

If you cannot, or will not answer these questions how is anyone supposed to give anything you say any credibility?

You can't just say they are not yorkies without having them be something else.

I believe you when you say YOUR particular Biewers, (not all Biewers) are not purebred yorkies. I am not arguing that point. I'd just like to know what makes yours different from those that ARE purebred yorkshire Terriers.

It's a simple question, if you don't have the answer then say you don't and explain what you are doing to get the answer.

I believe you all are putting way to much confidence in a testing agency that clearly states that it is not capable of testing for purebred dogs.

A lot of money is being wasted on tests that are meaningless, until the AKC says they will accept these test results as proof that you have created a new breed.

People have been developing new breeds for years long before DNA and Mars testing etc. The AKC requires that certain steps be followed and I have seen nothing that says The AKC will allow you to establish a new breed by bypassing those steps.

What does it matter if it's AKC or not??:confused: I wouldn't pay $4000-$5000 for a yorkie that could not be shown or really shouldn't be bred, when it's a fault. To me, there is no difference in a parti than there is a chocolate. Yeah, all dogs are cute, but, AKC to me, doesn't mean a hill of beans. I've seen a lot of dogs that were AKC registered, that I know for a fact weren't even purebred

Then why the big push to get the Biewers to AKC?

To control the standard in how it is being bred in the future.

One of the first question that eople ask is if a dog is AKC. I know there are frauds out there and that is a shame. But it matters to me and it matters to other people. you have no knwoledge of how much i paid for my dogs, but I personally would not pay anything for a dog that the owner could not tell me what breed the dog is.

The AKC does not set the standards.

We parti breeders know what we have. we are not trying to make them out to be anything less than purebred yorkshire terriers. And the Biewer Yorkshire terriers ar e also yorkies.

I am very open minded, I am just trying to get an answer to what the makeup is of the Biewer Terrier as I do believe that is is not a purebred dog. and also which breed they are registered as and which registry is registering them?

Do you have those answers?