Rating of Dry Dog foods

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by MissSunni

You know what guys. I am sorry I posted that stupid link! I KNOW that there are a million different rankings by different ppl and sites. I actually posted this one because he started it as a consumer! He never claims to be an expert. Its left up to anyone who reads it to decipher it as they will. The fact that alot of you think he is claiming to be an expert shows you havent really read what he says, in my opinion.

Apparantly there are a number of experts on this forum.. I should have just posted...for the uneducated consumer..maybe heres a list you dummies can look at before you buy Alpo.

I am surprised that this thread has bascially been hijacked and laughed at...but, thats fine. Have your fun, but its not at my expense because I will still have my opinions and thoughts and I will continue to read whatever I find interesting, but I will NOT post a link here again, thats for sure. I'll leave it to all the certified experts. My feelings are not hurt. I'm just shaking my head at the tone of this whole thread. Thanks to the few who tried to be rational and chose not to make me look and feel like an idiot.

I've now deleted the posts where there is snark/making-fun-of type comments of what this thread is about. You should not apologize or feel bad for posting about DFA -- you are more than welcome to do so. Many people here use and appreciate DFA, and some feel the opposite -- all opinions are welcome as long as people be respectful about it.

You should always feel welcome to post any/all links that you find interesting - truly! I'm sure we could all learn something from whatever someone else may be interested in. No one here wishes you to feel disparaged for what you posted, and I'm sorry you feel this way. In some ways, some people were trying to lend some humor to an often heated topic - but it came to point where it went too far and went from humorous to snarkiness...and we don't want to support that. Humor is fine, but being snarky/sarcastic is just another way to display disdain and YT tries to discourage that as it does hurt the conversation.

Hopefully the discussion can continue to be interesting and helpful...

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I dont know what year this was you were referring to, but back when I was a teen ager, we had a little chicuahua and something NEW had just come out...a SHOT to prevent them from coming in heat! Well, we signed up for this new fabulous medical advancement....every 6 months, Christy got a shot to keep her from coming into heat! It worked like a charm! It worked for about 6 years....then she hemorrhaged to death one day.....she was bleeding from every orifice she had...we rushed her to the vet that I was working for, he worked and worked to save her...they were not doing all the medical intervention they do now....I do not remember blood transfusions being available (1964-65)....that poor baby died.....
Maybe you were also giving this shot to your GS???

I have never ever again given any "new injections" for anything they have come up with since then...I think the last time I was at my vet office last month, I saw a poster advertising a shot against heartworms???!!! NOT in THIS lifetime!!!!!

Our German Shepherd's name was Christy too . No, she wasn't receiving birth control shots. She had an emergency spay when she was young and got pregnant. We just didn't know any better back in those days, and let her run around outside unattended--there were no leash laws back in those days. She was eating Purina Dog Chow--it was all you could get at the supermarket in a small town. She would have died around 1972, I think.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I've now deleted the posts where there is snark/making-fun-of type comments of what this thread is about. You should not apologize or feel bad for posting about DFA -- you are more than welcome to do so. Many people here use and appreciate DFA, and some feel the opposite -- all opinions are welcome as long as people be respectful about it.

You should always feel welcome to post any/all links that you find interesting - truly! I'm sure we could all learn something from whatever someone else may be interested in. No one here wishes you to feel disparaged for what you posted, and I'm sorry you feel this way. In some ways, some people were trying to lend some humor to an often heated topic - but it came to point where it went too far and went from humorous to snarkiness...and we don't want to support that. Humor is fine, but being snarky/sarcastic is just another way to display disdain and YT tries to discourage that as it does hurt the conversation.

Hopefully the discussion can continue to be interesting and helpful...

I'm a bit surprised the one calling names was not deleted. I don't think anyone was laughing at the op just trying to add humor to something that normally makes people cringe and get angry.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

This has nothing to do with you. No one thinks you are an idiot and you should not take it personal.

Some of us have basically been a bit tired of the drama that begins if we question the DFA, so we were just laughing at that. Phil said Food Fight which really was in jest and we all fell in line with that.

No, I don't agree with following the DFA, but there are folks who do...to each his own. I am sorry if I made you feel badly in any way at all. It certainly was not my intent. I don't even know you or have any feelings in any way about you. It was just a thread and some of us have some humor...you have to sometimes in life.

Bumping this just because.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I'm a bit surprised the one calling names was not deleted. I don't think anyone was laughing at the op just trying to add humor to something that normally makes people cringe and get angry.

forget it...the whole thing is ..well, just is.

call me speechless this morning

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

I have tried to keep out of this. My only post was aimed at humor in the hope that the sharks here would see it and STOP before it got nasty.
An innocent post informing YT members of one source of diet info was ridiculed and made to feel stupid for posting such a link.
I am an average Yorkie mom who started off knowing little about the issues and diet needs of my dog. When I first came here I thought it was for people like me, not the self elected experts on all things Yorkie.
In my experience, when a dog is sick the average person takes him or her to the vet, is diagnosed and treated...then given meds and a prescription diet for the disease in question, if needed. No vet has ever told me to get a boarded nutritionist, and I would like to know how many here have received that advice from the vet.
The owner of the publication FDA is a dentist.......so what?? How many here are certified nutritionists? This man is well educated and able to research and give his opinions for others to read and digest and use as they may. Has he been given a chance to defend his reputation??
The scientists here should know that berating another professional is unethical without the person being given a chance to defend the accusations.
As we all know, dog food is a very personal issue and we all choose the food we deem best for our dogs. Most of us have to seek diet info from vets and our research, however imperfect is may be.
This thread has become a slug fest and the bait was laid at the beginning, knowing some would bite!
The poor OP was probably devastated by the mean and attacking responses, she thought she was being helpful....as she was to many I am sure.
This is a rant I wish I did not have to write, but I am not an uneducated idiot and I feel my views are as valid as other non experts here.
Please try and understand many here do not have the time, facilities and experience to spend hours researching literature and writing extensive analyses and comments. We are dog moms and dads who just want the best for our dogs, and we live on ground level not in ivory towers.
Now the sharks have more chum to attack, and I will take whatever comes.
Thank you.

In response to this question, I have been referred to board certified specialists MANY times over the years. The vets I use are very aware of their limitations with certain conditions and are professionals who have no problem admitting they cannot handle everything. They also know that I am a willing consumer/pet owner who does not withhold specialized care when needed. They always refer me as necessary....unfortunately I have had many pups with serious conditions. I currently have three of my personal pups on special diets and meds for serious, potentially fatal conditions. I also have another who had liver shunt surgery. They are doing well I believe because I listened to my vet and took them to a specialist.
-------------------------

I consider myself the average pet owner... these words of yours baffle me:

Please try and understand many here do not have the time, facilities and experience to spend hours researching literature and writing extensive analyses and comments. We are dog moms and dads who just want the best for our dogs, and we live on ground level not in ivory towers.

I don't really understand this. I am a dog mom who wants the best and I believe that I live on the ground level. I don't have the time for all the reading and posting and all...I have said that many times. I rely on my vets for this advice which is my point about DFA....I don't care for his advice because I prefer listening to vet professionals for my pups. That's all. For me, it is a matter of priorities. I do for my pups what I would do for myself and bust my backside to afford it...I am not a wealthy woman living in an ivory tower .. I am a commoner who just does her level best to go the extra mile for my pups. They don't choose to live here, I choose to have them and I feel I owe it to them to give them the best. Does that make me an enemy here? Apparently, as you have name called all over the place accusing me of being a shark and engaging is something that did. not. happen. No one attacked the OP. We just found some humor where we felt it was needed. AND I apologized to the OP...it was NEVER my intent to attack her at. all.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I'm a bit surprised the one calling names was not deleted. I don't think anyone was laughing at the op just trying to add humor to something that normally makes people cringe and get angry.

It's now deleted. Btw just fyi, "name calling" isn't even part of YT's rules and hasn't been for quite a long while now, mostly bc people don't seem to understand what it is - someone would say "Boo" and it would be reported as name calling. I didn't really view the "sharks" comment as name calling, I viewed it as an analogy toward some of the off-tone humor that was occurring within a group of people.

[ladyjane]

Let me go on this morning to share an experience that might make sense for those of you with questions about board certified specialists.

I had a foster who was surrendered to rescue by his owners. He had a fractured leg...the injury had occurred six months previously. His owners didn't have the money to go to a surgeon and they went shopping for a vet who would be less expensive. (I know all of this because they told me). They found a vet who did the surgery but the bone did not heal and after six long months, they decided to surrernder him. His bone was broken in half. Horrifying to me. Anyway....I took him to a boarded specialist who informed me that what the previous vet had done was not ever going to work.....the owners had spent $800 on that surgery!!! The vet had put a pin in it and it was a large bone that would rotate with that pin in it and never mend. Was it criminal? I think so, but vets do this stuff all the time to try to help people when in fact they really are not helping the poor pets....or the owners. Fortunately the leg was saved, but by that time, he needed bone grafts, plates and pins....and lengthy crate rest.

I get that people don't have money for expensive condtions/surgeries...that is why I often suggest that they get pet insurance. We have it for ourselves, why not for our pets? I think most of us on this forum feel strongly that our pets are our children...no I don't think human, but they are important to us.

That was an example about boarded vets.....and imo if you have a pup who has a medical condition for whom a rx diet won't work, it is best to have a specialist. The first time I went to a nutritionist was years ago with a pup in renal failure...he also had pancreatitis. So none of the diets were good for him...one would throw the pancreatitis off...the other would throw the kidneys off. I consulted at Texas A&M with a vet nutritionist and started home cooking for him. He enjoyed his food and did well on it until it was simply time for him to leave me. SO...this is why I promote vet nutritionsists.. I am not merely putting someone down for being a dentist. I just firmly believe in going to specialists for my pups just as I would for myself. As Pstinard said, I would not go to a dentist for nutrition advice and I won't for my pups.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Let me go on this morning to share an experience that might make sense for those of you with questions about board certified specialists.

I had a foster who was surrendered to rescue by his owners. He had a fractured leg...the injury had occurred six months previously. His owners didn't have the money to go to a surgeon and they went shopping for a vet who would be less expensive. (I know all of this because they told me). They found a vet who did the surgery but the bone did not heal and after six long months, they decided to surrernder him. His bone was broken in half. Horrifying to me. Anyway....I took him to a boarded specialist who informed me that what the previous vet had done was not ever going to work.....the owners had spent $800 on that surgery!!! The vet had put a pin in it and it was a large bone that would rotate with that pin in it and never mend. Was it criminal? I think so, but vets do this stuff all the time to try to help people when in fact they really are not helping the poor pets....or the owners. Fortunately the leg was saved, but by that time, he needed bone grafts, plates and pins....and lengthy crate rest.

I get that people don't have money for expensive condtions/surgeries...that is why I often suggest that they get pet insurance. We have it for ourselves, why not for our pets? I think most of us on this forum feel strongly that our pets are our children...no I don't think human, but they are important to us.

That was an example about boarded vets.....and imo if you have a pup who has a medical condition for whom a rx diet won't work, it is best to have a specialist. The first time I went to a nutritionist was years ago with a pup in renal failure...he also had pancreatitis. So none of the diets were good for him...one would throw the pancreatitis off...the other would throw the kidneys off. I consulted at Texas A&M with a vet nutritionist and started home cooking for him. He enjoyed his food and did well on it until it was simply time for him to leave me. SO...this is why I promote vet nutritionsists.. I am not merely putting someone down for being a dentist. I just firmly believe in going to specialists for my pups just as I would for myself. As Pstinard said, I would not go to a dentist for nutrition advice and I won't for my pups.

Great post, thanks for sharing this.

[Wylie's Mom]

I feel like I should clarify a little about humor and why some posts were deleted. Honestly, the first couple pages of humor were totally fine and okay and intended to be fun (from what I can tell, anyway). As it kept going on a little too far, though, it then seemed appropriate to just go ahead and delete all post that were "off topic" -- so that's why I went back to page 1 and deleted *all* of them together. In other words, this does *not* mean that all of the posts were deleted was bc they were inappropriate...not at all; many of them were just in good humor, very clearly.

Maybe an example too? When Phil said "food fight!" -- that was funny and was very clearly meant to add a little levity to an often heavy subject here. But if/when someone later uses humor disguised as disdain...that's when we start getting into the arena where humor is going to disparage rather than just be funny and lighthearted. (Edited later to clarify: and I don't mean here that it was Phil who went "off-tone" w/ the humor; was just using his perfectly funny comment "food fight" as a good example of what is truly funny. )

Humor is good / okay!!!! If it kinda takes over a thread, derails it, and/or starts to head into some off-tone area...then, well...we may need to clean up the thread a bit. And that was the case here, that's all . No huge deal here.

I think sometimes, too, that maybe some folks don't realize when their humor may come off as disparaging...? I think sometimes that is confusing for people. And that's understandable to a certain point. Hopefully, it's not intended to be off-color...but sometimes it does read that way nonetheless.

Clear as mud, then?

Please understand we're just trying to strike a balance here in this section where we can all have discussions without getting too upset and/or with a greater/improved tolerance of what others are interested in here as sources or links or whatnot.

[dottiesyrky]

In my defense, with respect to FOOD ADVICE only, I stated that the average vet does not refer to a nutritionist for specialized diets for common diseases. Of course if one had a health issue for which the vet could not provide diet info, then of course one would get a referral. I find it rather insulting to suggest that I would not see a specialist for other issues, such as an ortho. In fact I was referred to and consulted a specialist eye doctor for my dog's cataract surgery.
The surgery was done by her in a specialty vet hospital. I also consulted a gastro specialist at the same hospital when my dog had post op GI issues.
My point was that in my limited experience, for dietary advice it is not COMMON to get a specialist consult from a vet. It is however more common for other issues that regular vets cannot handle.
I may have committed other YT sins, but getting proper care for my dog when needed is not one of them. I wanted that to be made clear.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

In my defense, with respect to FOOD ADVICE only, I stated that the average vet does not refer to a nutritionist for specialized diets for common diseases. Of course if one had a health issue for which the vet could not provide diet info, then of course one would get a referral. I find it rather insulting to suggest that I would not see a specialist for other issues, such as an ortho. In fact I was referred to and consulted a specialist eye doctor for my dog's cataract surgery.
The surgery was done by her in a specialty vet hospital. I also consulted a gastro specialist at the same hospital when my dog had post op GI issues.
My point was that in my limited experience, for dietary advice it is not COMMON to get a specialist consult from a vet. It is however more common for other issues that regular vets cannot handle.
I may have committed other YT sins, but getting proper care for my dog when needed is not one of them. I wanted that to be made clear.

In my opinion, you're reading far too much into this, and I'm beginning to feel that I can't make ANY comment without SOMEONE feeling insulted. My comments in this context should be taken to mean that Board Certified Veterinary Nutritionists are as needed and as valid as Board Certified Veterinary Orthopedic Surgeons and Board Certified Internal Medicine specialists, regardless of how often they are used or how often vets refer people to them. Nothing more.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I feel like I should clarify a little about humor and why some posts were deleted. Honestly, the first couple pages of humor were totally fine and okay and intended to be fun (from what I can tell, anyway). As it kept going on a little too far, though, it then seemed appropriate to just go ahead and delete all post that were "off topic" -- so that's why I went back to page 1 and deleted *all* of them together. In other words, this does *not* mean that all of the posts were deleted was bc they were inappropriate...not at all; many of them were just in good humor, very clearly.

Maybe an example too? When Phil said "food fight!" -- that was funny and was very clearly meant to add a little levity to an often heavy subject here. But if/when someone later uses humor disguised as disdain...that's when we start getting into the arena where humor is going to disparage rather than just be funny and lighthearted.

Humor is good / okay!!!! If it kinda takes over a thread, derails it, and/or starts to head into some off-tone area...then, well...we may need to clean up the thread a bit. And that was the case here, that's all . No huge deal here.

I think sometimes, too, that maybe some folks don't realize when their humor may come off as disparaging...? I think sometimes that is confusing for people. And that's understandable to a certain point. Hopefully, it's not intended to be off-color...but sometimes it does read that way nonetheless.

Clear as mud, then?

Please understand we're just trying to strike a balance here in this section where we can all have discussions without getting too upset and/or with a greater/improved tolerance of what others are interested in here as sources or links or whatnot.

You're a real trooper trying to strike a good balance. I appreciate your efforts and your intentions. I think that people also need to try not to seek insults where none are intended.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

In my defense, with respect to FOOD ADVICE only, I stated that the average vet does not refer to a nutritionist for specialized diets for common diseases. Of course if one had a health issue for which the vet could not provide diet info, then of course one would get a referral. I find it rather insulting to suggest that I would not see a specialist for other issues, such as an ortho. In fact I was referred to and consulted a specialist eye doctor for my dog's cataract surgery.
The surgery was done by her in a specialty vet hospital. I also consulted a gastro specialist at the same hospital when my dog had post op GI issues.
My point was that in my limited experience, for dietary advice it is not COMMON to get a specialist consult from a vet. It is however more common for other issues that regular vets cannot handle.
I may have committed other YT sins, but getting proper care for my dog when needed is not one of them. I wanted that to be made clear.

Pardon me for misreading your post. I really DID read it as boarded specialists. BUT the bottom line was that no where in my post was I disparaging you. Quite frankly I think you need to stop with this already....no one was ever personal on this thread to my knowledge..now you think it is something against you? Hopefully my post will be clear to and help others.

As for vets referring to nutritionists, no many do not but as they become more and more popular they will start doing that. My vet and her partners had no experience dealing with a nutritionist until I started using them and I can tell you that they have contacted me for information for their other clients so that they could refer them.

The bottom line though is that vet nutritionists are imho very necessary in dog foods. That is why so many are working for the larger and what I call more reputable companies.

I simply do not like the advice given by the DFA. It has nothing to do with his chosen profession...it has more to do with the fact that even though he freely admits he is not an expert, he comes off like one telling people what foods to avoid for their pets. He and I have one thing in common...the recalls scared us. He lost a dog, I did not. He chose to look at ingredients....I chose to ask questions of vets and then, at my vets suggestion, I contacted the vet nutritionist at Texas A&M. It was then that I learned about companies and quality control. So....while he has recommended foods since those recalls that have since been recalled...he still has not chamged his stance. I have been fortunate and not been affected by recalls with the foods I have chosen. I believe that is because I listened and went with the companies who do what I believe is important.....spend money where it is needed in feeding trials and vet nutritionists on staff. AND most importantly they focus on quality control.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by MissSunni

You know what guys. I am sorry I posted that stupid link! I KNOW that there are a million different rankings by different ppl and sites. I actually posted this one because he started it as a consumer! He never claims to be an expert. Its left up to anyone who reads it to decipher it as they will. The fact that alot of you think he is claiming to be an expert shows you havent really read what he says, in my opinion.

Apparantly there are a number of experts on this forum.. I should have just posted...for the uneducated consumer..maybe heres a list you dummies can look at before you buy Alpo.

I am surprised that this thread has bascially been hijacked and laughed at...but, thats fine. Have your fun, but its not at my expense because I will still have my opinions and thoughts and I will continue to read whatever I find interesting, but I will NOT post a link here again, thats for sure. I'll leave it to all the certified experts. My feelings are not hurt. I'm just shaking my head at the tone of this whole thread. Thanks to the few who tried to be rational and chose not to make me look and feel like an idiot.

I'm so sorry, this happened, I think the link is a helpful link and I felt like I had to say that, but it just added fuel to the fire. If it's any consolation, there are more people besides me who feel this way, if my PM's are any indication, they are just afraid to post. That saddens me as well. If you think something is valuable, post it, never mind that others won't like it.