Rating of Dry Dog foods

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by pstinard

The ACVN has a list of all of the veterinary nutritionists in the US on this page: Diplomate Directory American College of Veterinary Nutrition

If you click on "more information," you can find out where they are and what they are doing.

If you follow a dog all of the way until old age on a feeding trial, I wonder whether you can wait for them to die of natural causes and then perform an autopsy to gather the final data?

That would certainly be ONE option!!....I know poor food will show up rather quickly in the dogs appearance, vitality, mental and emotional condition, etc.....even stools....junk in, junk out. Kidney function, liver issues, and cardiac issues will follow relatively soon.....clinical feeding trials are realistic and dogs clearly can not stay on a feeding trial the entire life of the dog. Valid clinical feeding trials do last several years, as opposed to several days or weeks or even months. I would much rather these trials be done in a clinical research setting, than throwing dog food out on the general public, then after several years a cluster of pet owners have dogs dying with liver and kidney failure, or allergy issues, skin conditions, poor coats, etc. I do not want to feed any dog food where the manufacturer is using me and my pets as their clinical trial subjects! Let them do the valid research and the feeding trials, then when proven to do and be what it claims to do and be, I will then be happy use it!

[107barney]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

I have tried to keep out of this. My only post was aimed at humor in the hope that the sharks here would see it and STOP before it got nasty.
An innocent post informing YT members of one source of diet info was ridiculed and made to feel stupid for posting such a link.
I am an average Yorkie mom who started off knowing little about the issues and diet needs of my dog. When I first came here I thought it was for people like me, not the self elected experts on all things Yorkie.
In my experience, when a dog is sick the average person takes him or her to the vet, is diagnosed and treated...then given meds and a prescription diet for the disease in question, if needed. No vet has ever told me to get a boarded nutritionist, and I would like to know how many here have received that advice from the vet.
The owner of the publication FDA is a dentist.......so what?? How many here are certified nutritionists? This man is well educated and able to research and give his opinions for others to read and digest and use as they may. Has he been given a chance to defend his reputation??
The scientists here should know that berating another professional is unethical without the person being given a chance to defend the accusations.
As we all know, dog food is a very personal issue and we all choose the food we deem best for our dogs. Most of us have to seek diet info from vets and our research, however imperfect is may be.
This thread has become a slug fest and the bait was laid at the beginning, knowing some would bite!
The poor OP was probably devastated by the mean and attacking responses, she thought she was being helpful....as she was to many I am sure.
This is a rant I wish I did not have to write, but I am not an uneducated idiot and I feel my views are as valid as other non experts here.
Please try and understand many here do not have the time, facilities and experience to spend hours researching literature and writing extensive analyses and comments. We are dog moms and dads who just want the best for our dogs, and we live on ground level not in ivory towers.
Now the sharks have more chum to attack, and I will take whatever comes.
Thank you.

I think is informative to let people know that the DFA isn't more than an entrepreneur! That's an important fact people need to know. His opinions are not a source of good advice in my view. No ivory tower here. I just don't understand why debate about this guy leads to the conclusions that the dissenters are "sharks" or live in ivory towers.

As for vets referring to boarded specialists, they don't usually do it. This is why I like to tell people about it, so they can ask their vets and get a referral if they need it or just go on their own.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

I have tried to keep out of this. My only post was aimed at humor in the hope that the sharks here would see it and STOP before it got nasty.
An innocent post informing YT members of one source of diet info was ridiculed and made to feel stupid for posting such a link.
I am an average Yorkie mom who started off knowing little about the issues and diet needs of my dog. When I first came here I thought it was for people like me, not the self elected experts on all things Yorkie.
In my experience, when a dog is sick the average person takes him or her to the vet, is diagnosed and treated...then given meds and a prescription diet for the disease in question, if needed. No vet has ever told me to get a boarded nutritionist, and I would like to know how many here have received that advice from the vet.
The owner of the publication FDA is a dentist.......so what?? How many here are certified nutritionists? This man is well educated and able to research and give his opinions for others to read and digest and use as they may. Has he been given a chance to defend his reputation??
The scientists here should know that berating another professional is unethical without the person being given a chance to defend the accusations.
As we all know, dog food is a very personal issue and we all choose the food we deem best for our dogs. Most of us have to seek diet info from vets and our research, however imperfect is may be.
This thread has become a slug fest and the bait was laid at the beginning, knowing some would bite!
The poor OP was probably devastated by the mean and attacking responses, she thought she was being helpful....as she was to many I am sure.
This is a rant I wish I did not have to write, but I am not an uneducated idiot and I feel my views are as valid as other non experts here.
Please try and understand many here do not have the time, facilities and experience to spend hours researching literature and writing extensive analyses and comments. We are dog moms and dads who just want the best for our dogs, and we live on ground level not in ivory towers.
Now the sharks have more chum to attack, and I will take whatever comes.
Thank you.

Reading your post, I have to wonder if you are looking in the mirror. Talk about sharks and attacks. Sheesh

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I think is informative to let people know that the DFA isn't more than an entrepreneur! That's an important fact people need to know. His opinions are not a source of good advice in my view. No ivory tower here. I just don't understand why debate about this guy leads to the conclusions that the dissenters are "sharks" or live in ivory towers.

As for vets referring to boarded specialists, they don't usually do it. This is why I like to tell people about it, so they can ask their vets and get a referral if they need it or just go on their own.

I agree....and honestly I don't know why people get so tight in the backside at the fact that some of us don't value his opinion. So what? No one is telling them not to....we are merely pointing out that there is other information about nutrition out there.

The last time I went on his website, I got tangled up in a high pressure sales page. I posted it here in a thread and since then it seems to have disappeared. I am quite sure he sees these threads. I was honestly astounded at it....there was a timer on the page and you were told over and over that you better sign up quickly for the best price for his special list of foods, whatever he called it.. He had a timer there and it was ticking away while in his deep voice he warned you that you were almost out of time to get this great "deal". Sounded like a carnival barker to me and totally turned me off. I found out later that the price is the same at all times...there was no "deal" at all. Sorry it offends people, but he does not impress me at. all. I have sat on my hands mostly in this thread because I don't wish to be suspended or removed from the health and diet section, but I don't care for the attack tonight that I feel was SO unwarranted. We have all tried to make light and leave it all go. No one attacked anyone. This is just what happens...all designed to shut people up. Tiring.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I agree....and honestly I don't know why people get so tight in the backside at the fact that some of us don't value his opinion. So what? No one is telling them not to....we are merely pointing out that there is other information about nutrition out there.

The last time I went on his website, I got tangled up in a high pressure sales page. I posted it here in a thread and since then it seems to have disappeared. I am quite sure he sees these threads. I was honestly astounded at it....there was a timer on the page and you were told over and over that you better sign up quickly for the best price for his special list of foods, whatever he called it.. He had a timer there and it was ticking away while in his deep voice he warned you that you were almost out of time to get this great "deal". Sounded like a carnival barker to me and totally turned me off. I found out later that the price is the same at all times...there was no "deal" at all. Sorry it offends people, but he does not impress me at. all. I have sat on my hands mostly in this thread because I don't wish to be suspended or removed from the health and diet section, but I don't care for the attack tonight that I feel was SO unwarranted. We have all tried to make light and leave it all go. No one attacked anyone. This is just what happens...all designed to shut people up. Tiring.

LOL it is there...sort of. I had to listen to his lengthy sales pitch though. He does not have a timer now but tells you that if you sign up within 30 minutes you get a discount. Instead of $19.99 / year you will pay $14.99 for the first year. At least it is not ticking away now.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

I have tried to keep out of this. My only post was aimed at humor in the hope that the sharks here would see it and STOP before it got nasty.

I don't believe that this thread ever got nasty. A few comments were directed at the Dog Food Advisor, and some people defended him, as is their right.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

An innocent post informing YT members of one source of diet info was ridiculed and made to feel stupid for posting such a link.

No one attacked the OP at all.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

I am an average Yorkie mom who started off knowing little about the issues and diet needs of my dog. When I first came here I thought it was for people like me, not the self elected experts on all things Yorkie.
In my experience, when a dog is sick the average person takes him or her to the vet, is diagnosed and treated...then given meds and a prescription diet for the disease in question, if needed. No vet has ever told me to get a boarded nutritionist, and I would like to know how many here have received that advice from the vet.

I'm responding to the bolded part now. The first bolded sentence is quite true, and I'm sure is the case for most illnesses that vets encounter. I've never had to consult a veterinary nutritionist for any of Bella's ailments, and I consider myself blessed. But consider this: If a Yorkie needs orthopedic surgery, it *could* be done by many regular vets, but it would be best to have it done by a board certified orthopedic surgeon. If a prescription diet isn't working for a particular dog's ailment, why wouldn't one do the same (send them to a board certified expert in veterinary nutrition, in this case)? Just as in human medicine, there are board certified specialists in various veterinary disciplines--orthopedic surgery, internal medicine, dermatology, nutrition, etc. If humans can see specialists, why can't dogs?

And if as a human, if I want to know something about the food I eat, would I consult a nutritionist, or a dentist? Why would I treat my dog differently?

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

The owner of the publication FDA is a dentist.......so what?? How many here are certified nutritionists? This man is well educated and able to research and give his opinions for others to read and digest and use as they may. Has he been given a chance to defend his reputation??
The scientists here should know that berating another professional is unethical without the person being given a chance to defend the accusations.

That applies when criticisms of one's research are made in refereed publications by a fellow scientist--if it's controversial, the person being criticized is sometimes (not always) allowed to publish a rebuttal. No one running a public website and blog is above criticism. If the Dog Food Advisor wants to come on Yorkietalk to defend himself, he's free to do so, but his website already has plenty of disclaimers stating the limitations of his reviews, so I doubt he would find it worth his time. As for me, I'm satisfied with his disclaimers.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

As we all know, dog food is a very personal issue and we all choose the food we deem best for our dogs. Most of us have to seek diet info from vets and our research, however imperfect is may be.
This thread has become a slug fest and the bait was laid at the beginning, knowing some would bite!
The poor OP was probably devastated by the mean and attacking responses, she thought she was being helpful....as she was to many I am sure.
This is a rant I wish I did not have to write, but I am not an uneducated idiot and I feel my views are as valid as other non experts here.

Yes, your views are equally valid, as are those of the OP and everyone else posting here. I am also a non-expert when it comes to veterinary nutrition.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

Please try and understand many here do not have the time, facilities and experience to spend hours researching literature and writing extensive analyses and comments. We are dog moms and dads who just want the best for our dogs, and we live on ground level not in ivory towers.
Now the sharks have more chum to attack, and I will take whatever comes.
Thank you.

No attacks from me. I'm listening. And responding, reasonably (I hope), as is my right.

[ladyjane]

Well said Phil.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

That would certainly be ONE option!!....I know poor food will show up rather quickly in the dogs appearance, vitality, mental and emotional condition, etc.....even stools....junk in, junk out. Kidney function, liver issues, and cardiac issues will follow relatively soon.....clinical feeding trials are realistic and dogs clearly can not stay on a feeding trial the entire life of the dog. Valid clinical feeding trials do last several years, as opposed to several days or weeks or even months. I would much rather these trials be done in a clinical research setting, than throwing dog food out on the general public, then after several years a cluster of pet owners have dogs dying with liver and kidney failure, or allergy issues, skin conditions, poor coats, etc. I do not want to feed any dog food where the manufacturer is using me and my pets as their clinical trial subjects! Let them do the valid research and the feeding trials, then when proven to do and be what it claims to do and be, I will then be happy use it!

Very true. That's why I would think that feeding trials would be stopped at the first sign of deteriorating health. I believe that's what they do for the all-too-brief AAFCO feeding trials. I think a long term life long study would be more appropriate in terms of trying to prove something more subtle, such as differences in feeding natural vs. synthetic vitamins, or nutritionally complete kibble vs. canned vs. raw vs. home cooked foods.

BTW, this thread has me remembering back to the German Shepherd we had when I was a child. She died of massive organ failure at the age of 10 years and bled out of every orifice, and now I have to wonder whether she was poisoned by a toxic batch of dog food.

[ironmike86]

Pretty much all kibble sucks. Doesn't look like food to me. Just junk processed food. But there some that are better then others. Look at some all corn or some grain,flour, by product in the first few ingredient. Some stuff from China then the storage. So,e lie on there ingredient .Some are better. I feed kibble for treats a breakfast so they will eat it. But for lunch and dinner they get homemade top self food imo. All fresh organic foods but cooked. I feed them like I would like to eat. Healthy or at least do my best.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

As to the bolded statement in the post above, I can only say this....
Pretty flawed thinking imho. I am willing to pay more for real experts (ie vet nutritionists) and feeding trials, NOT fancy marketing such as the BB law suit has uncovered. I stopped buying a dog food for that reason...they had all the fancy words on their website and the "desired" ingredients, but ignored my requests for names and qualifications of the "experts" they claimed had formulated the diets. Just because a company has the ingredients that guy says are more acceptable does not mean the quality control is there.

He also could be completely wrong about what are the "best" ingredients.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by MissSunni

You know what guys. I am sorry I posted that stupid link! I KNOW that there are a million different rankings by different ppl and sites. I actually posted this one because he started it as a consumer! He never claims to be an expert. Its left up to anyone who reads it to decipher it as they will. The fact that alot of you think he is claiming to be an expert shows you havent really read what he says, in my opinion.

Apparantly there are a number of experts on this forum.. I should have just posted...for the uneducated consumer..maybe heres a list you dummies can look at before you buy Alpo.

I am surprised that this thread has bascially been hijacked and laughed at...but, thats fine. Have your fun, but its not at my expense because I will still have my opinions and thoughts and I will continue to read whatever I find interesting, but I will NOT post a link here again, thats for sure. I'll leave it to all the certified experts. My feelings are not hurt. I'm just shaking my head at the tone of this whole thread. Thanks to the few who tried to be rational and chose not to make me look and feel like an idiot.

No one is laughing at you there were jokes being made because this is a hot button topic and it was just to cool the fire down. It might make you feel better to look at other foods thread and see how hot they got. I'm not a fan of DFA for many reasons, others have different reasons and some like him. He does make money off of his site so that is very important to remember and I do think that his profession and reminding people the he has not gone to school for this stuff. I think its great to learn from this thread and to check out the sites from real vet nutritionists and so on. I stand strong by the fact that just because certain food is good for humans it does not mean its good for dogs. Just please don't take any of this as attacks at you and feel you shouldn't share anymore. There really is a lot to learn in this thread. The joking is not picking fun at you.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Very true. That's why I would think that feeding trials would be stopped at the first sign of deteriorating health. I believe that's what they do for the all-too-brief AAFCO feeding trials. I think a long term life long study would be more appropriate in terms of trying to prove something more subtle, such as differences in feeding natural vs. synthetic vitamins, or nutritionally complete kibble vs. canned vs. raw vs. home cooked foods.

BTW, this thread has me remembering back to the German Shepherd we had when I was a child. She died of massive organ failure at the age of 10 years and bled out of every orifice, and now I have to wonder whether she was poisoned by a toxic batch of dog food.

I dont know what year this was you were referring to, but back when I was a teen ager, we had a little chicuahua and something NEW had just come out...a SHOT to prevent them from coming in heat! Well, we signed up for this new fabulous medical advancement....every 6 months, Christy got a shot to keep her from coming into heat! It worked like a charm! It worked for about 6 years....then she hemorrhaged to death one day.....she was bleeding from every orifice she had...we rushed her to the vet that I was working for, he worked and worked to save her...they were not doing all the medical intervention they do now....I do not remember blood transfusions being available (1964-65)....that poor baby died.....
Maybe you were also giving this shot to your GS???

I have never ever again given any "new injections" for anything they have come up with since then...I think the last time I was at my vet office last month, I saw a poster advertising a shot against heartworms???!!! NOT in THIS lifetime!!!!!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

I have tried to keep out of this. My only post was aimed at humor in the hope that the sharks here would see it and STOP before it got nasty.
An innocent post informing YT members of one source of diet info was ridiculed and made to feel stupid for posting such a link.
I am an average Yorkie mom who started off knowing little about the issues and diet needs of my dog. When I first came here I thought it was for people like me, not the self elected experts on all things Yorkie.
In my experience, when a dog is sick the average person takes him or her to the vet, is diagnosed and treated...then given meds and a prescription diet for the disease in question, if needed. No vet has ever told me to get a boarded nutritionist, and I would like to know how many here have received that advice from the vet.
The owner of the publication FDA is a dentist.......so what?? How many here are certified nutritionists? This man is well educated and able to research and give his opinions for others to read and digest and use as they may. Has he been given a chance to defend his reputation??
The scientists here should know that berating another professional is unethical without the person being given a chance to defend the accusations.
As we all know, dog food is a very personal issue and we all choose the food we deem best for our dogs. Most of us have to seek diet info from vets and our research, however imperfect is may be.
This thread has become a slug fest and the bait was laid at the beginning, knowing some would bite!
The poor OP was probably devastated by the mean and attacking responses, she thought she was being helpful....as she was to many I am sure.
This is a rant I wish I did not have to write, but I am not an uneducated idiot and I feel my views are as valid as other non experts here.
Please try and understand many here do not have the time, facilities and experience to spend hours researching literature and writing extensive analyses and comments. We are dog moms and dads who just want the best for our dogs, and we live on ground level not in ivory towers.
Now the sharks have more chum to attack, and I will take whatever comes.
Thank you.

I think calling people sharks for there opinion and stuff is really just uncalled for and just looking for people to start a fight. Im sorry but I don't believe that what he says is the best ingredients are the best ingredients. Your in-titled to your opinion but please don't make fun of and call names to those of us who have different opinions.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I think is informative to let people know that the DFA isn't more than an entrepreneur! That's an important fact people need to know. His opinions are not a source of good advice in my view. No ivory tower here. I just don't understand why debate about this guy leads to the conclusions that the dissenters are "sharks" or live in ivory towers.

As for vets referring to boarded specialists, they don't usually do it. This is why I like to tell people about it, so they can ask their vets and get a referral if they need it or just go on their own.

That is what I don't get either. Its just wrong to call people who don't support something sharks and bash them.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Just found this article on her website. It's short, but quite good (and relevant): https://weethnutrition.wordpress.com...-you-pet-food/

Yes it is. I also found this interesting:
https://weethnutrition.wordpress.com...gers-come-out/