Royal Canin Questions?

[Opium88]

guess I didn't do the whole quoting thing quite right in that last reply. Sorry.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Opium88

Does RC purchase any of the ingredients used in their kibble, including vitamins and minerals, from China? Are the meat sources "prepared" in China, knowing how fearful we are of toxic products from China or are the products (whole chickens, beef products, fish products, etc) bought in bulk and then prepared at RC facility? (I know I had recently read where the USDA has apparently OK'd China to supply our chicken and chicken products for human consumption here in the USA.)

I would like to know the same thing. That would be the only thing that could get me to switch up from RC right now. Not real big on China. Nothing good happens there either for or to most animals...

Yeah, I know what you mean, China also produces the largest supply of synthetic vitamins. Another reason I'm for getting the vitamins through quality products instead of adding synthetic to balance the product.

[RoyalCaninCA]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Ashley I have a question for you....
You said that excess protein is eliminated in the stool. My dog eats a home cooked grain-free meal of 45% protein and 12% fat and 12% fiber. I haven't noticed any stool issues other than they are very small and really don't smell. Personally, I believe that grains fill the toilet for both people and pets so im trying to understand your generalization.

FWIW, I appreciate your disclosure that you work for RC. I think it does put us on notice that your philosophy and delivery of information in that light. I still think it's great to have you here.

I have to agree with Nancy on the cost of byproducts versus muscle meats. Boneless chicken breast at my local big chain grocery store was $3.99/lb (sale price) and a hearts/gizzard mix was $1.60/lb. I frequently buy chicken spines for very cheap for soups and the poultry farm doesn't even charge me for chicken feet. I guess I could buy your explanation more if the price of the formula correspondingly decreased based on the new ingredients of cheap broken rice and byproducts. I don't disagree that the food could still be quality. I don't think chicken backs and necks produce any less quality stock than a bone-in muscle meats, but I will indeed spend less on those items. Did RC drop the price of the food to reflect this?

Hi @107barney!

Any protein that is not digested and absorbed by the body continues through the digestive tract into the stool. This is called undigested protein. The undigested protein can also be fed on by the bacteria in the colon, pulling excess water into the colon (leading to higher moisture stools), smelly stools and even gas. A less digestible source of protein will lead to more undigested protein winding up in the colon.

When we are talking about protein utilization in the body, that depends on the specific dog's needs. Some dogs, like the Poodle, Yorkie, Shih Tzu, have increased needs for protein because of the high demands for coat formation. Other breeds, like the Boxer, German Shepherd, have higher demands for protein for lean muscle maintenance. Anything above and beyond the demands of protein by the body for tissue formation and bodily processes, will be used as energy.

Grains are beautiful!! Don't turn your back on them for you or your pup Just because they weren't necessarily part of an ancestral diet for dogs, doesn't mean they can't be extremely beneficial. Look at half the foods we consume as humans! If we were only to consume foods our regions locally produced, how would we be? Fine! Populations in remote areas have learned to adapt to the food found in their close proximity (Think Inuit populations, remote Caribbean islands, or dessert habitats.) But in the new age, thanks to transportation and improved technologies, we can enjoy foods from all over the world! In Canada, we would never have the ability to consume beneficial foods such as avocados, bananas, acai berries etc. because of our climate, but exotic foods like that can enrich our diet with valuable nutrients to support our health... avocados are also extremely tasty and make everything taste better yumm

I do want to clarify one thing you mentioned. Chicken backs would actually be included in AAFCO’s definition of chicken, not by-products. In fact, backs and necks would make up the majority of chicken and chicken meal, as all the chicken breasts, thighs, wings, etc go to the human food chain.

To obtain the quality and nutritional profile we are looking for, it takes more effort to find a supplier that meets our standards vs. just any supplier who happens to have the ingredients we are looking for. We sort and trim both our chicken meal and chicken by-product meal so that it contains the portions we are looking for, and nothing what we don't want. Portions we don't want include anything indigestible in its current form on the chicken (ie nails and feathers), fat (fat contributes to more weight which could make it appear higher on the ingredient deck, but something we want to carefully control the level of, therefore add Chicken Fat into the formula separately) and also the level of bone (this contributes to the ash content of the formula. Ash is a combination of minerals and elements. We choose to add these important nutrients in separately so we can precisely control their level. This is what is called low ash chicken meal and chicken by-product meal).

To achieve all the quality and nutritional precision we are looking for, we have to source our chicken by-product meal from a supplier that can meet these demands for RC. Even still, once the ingredient reaches our plant(s), we do our own in-house tests and evaluations for quality (make sure there are no microorganisms or contaminants) and nutritional precision (using NIRS, near-infrared spectroscopy). This means that we still hold the power to reject truckloads of ingredients if they arrive at our plant and don't meet our standards (truck drivers are NOT happy with us at that point).

And also I appreciate your honesty. I completely understand; I take what companies say with a grain of salt too (you should see when I walk into a health food store!). I rely on scientific evidence, that is my go-to source for information and my comfort. Any time I am unclear about information provided to me, I examine the all the science.

Hope that helps!
Ashley

[RoyalCaninCA]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I have three questions:


1. Where does Royal Canin buy the chicken meal?

2. Where does Royal Caniin buy its chicken by-product meal?

3. Where does Royal Canin buy all it's vitamins?

I know RC is an international company and wonder what countries they purchase these things from.

Hello everyone!

Suppliers are a great topic of interest when it comes to ... well, ANYTHING for that matter!

Royal Canin sources ingredients locally wherever possible, which means the supplier of specific ingredients will be different for each manufacturing facility. As I am a nutritionist, and don’t work in the supply chain department, I don’t know the specific supplier of every ingredient. We have associates whose jobs are dedicated to sourcing, validating, and maintaining our suppliers. What I can tell you is that every supplier we use must go through a strict validation process before we incorporated them into our process. This involves a dedicated team flying to the supplier's site, evaluating their facility, their animals/birds and also collecting initial samples. These samples are then sent to our Americas Regional Lab (here in Guelph) where they are tested for quality, safety and nutritional parameters. But it doesn't stop there. Why? At any time the ingredient they send you could be different from the initial sample they provided you. This is why every single delivery of ingredients to every single manufacturing facility must go through a series of tests before it’s added to our inventory. Yes that means 100% of ingredients are tested before being used in any RC Health Nutrition formula. We also have extensive traceability. This enables us to trace back all detailed information, from the temperature and conditions the kibble was cooked in, the ingredients that were used, the results from the tests that were performed on each ingredient all the way back to the individual supplier of that ingredient who can also provide traceability on their part. In addition, retained samples of ingredients and finished product are held on site in a climate controlled room. Full traceability allows us to look at any specific details about a formula if there were were any questions regarding a specific bag of our formula from a consumer.

China came up as a specific mention, and while none of our protein sources for our Canadian or US plants come from China, I would like to address the question briefly. Avoiding ingredients from a country does not guarantee safety. There was a devastating incident related to ingredients from China, but that doesn't make China the only place capable of producing or containing contaminated or otherwise dangerous ingredients or products. Think in Canada with the recent beef recall and in the US with a Texas ingredient supplier. Sub-quality or contaminated ingredients can come from anywhere, including our own NA backyard! Regardless of where ingredients come from, it is critical to have multiple steps in place to confirm their quality, digestibility, safety, and nutrition. NIRS (which I introduced in a previous post) is one the initial analysis completed on ingredient when entering our plant. It can perform analysis to predict specific nutrition values (such as protein, moisture, fat etc.) but also matching what you could consider a "fingerprint" of the sample to a validated global database for RC. The fingerprint would identify if anything with the structure of the ingredient is not correct, which could include a contaminate in the ingredient. Both analysis are confirmed at the Americas Regional Laboratory.

If you have more specific supplier question, please feel free to phone in and discuss your questions with an RC associate for your country As I continue to encourage questions from everyone, I will stick to the area of my expertise, which is nutrition .

Have a great day!
Ashley

[RoyalCaninCA]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

[/B]

Alot of what you pointed out above, applies to many of us.....!
I am really enjoying reading her responses. I am waiting for her to advise on giving the Adult Mini versus the Yorkie Breed specific kibble! Since I dont know any other way to do it, I have copied/pasted her responses and put them in a folder for my own future use!

Hello @Yorkiemom1!!

Sorry for missing your question... back on page 4 :S haha. If I have missed any questions, I apologize, but feel free to post them again for me to answer.

MINI Adult is part of our Size Health Nutrition line of formulas. It is tailored specifically for the 9 - 22 lb small dog's needs. These small breeds can be some of the spunkiest and longest living of all the breeds, but also have some specific needs related to their size that can be supported through nutrition. These can include:
- higher frequency of dental disease (polyphosphates to help reduce tartar formation)
- skin and coat support (highly digestible protein, vitamin A, biotin, omega 6 fatty for coat gloss and EPA & DHA to help limit inflammation at the skin)
- more energy requirement per pound than large/giant breeds

Yorkshire Terrier is part of our Breed Health Nutrition line of formulas. These formulas take RC's knowledge and expertise to the next level. Formulation of these diets involves careful examination of veterinary cases, scientific literature and observation to complete our understanding of that specific breed's particularities, needs and requirements. Observation is completed both in our breeder network and at our kennel and cattery in France. Some of the things we examine with each specific breed include fat vs. lean muscle levels (think of a Newfie vs a Boxer), stool consistency (high or low in moisture), trans-epidermal water loss (TEWL, strength of skin barrier), urine RSS vales (likelihood of urolith formation) etc.

One of my favourite things to talk about with the Breed formulas is our kibble science. Each kibble design is tailored to the breeds specific needs for kibble grasping (prehension), chewing/dental issues, rate of ingestion, and digestive sensitivities. We evaluate their facial morphology (ie. brachycephalic or mesocephalic) along with the way they grasp their kibble to design a kibble shape that is easy for them to pick up and chew. This is evaluated by filming the breed eating on a glass surface. Sometimes we experiment with different kibble shapes, sizes, textures or densities until we find the best design for that breed.

For the YT specifically, the formula addresses:
- the very high prevalence of dental issues in YT through longitudinally extruded kibble (requires more force to break which applies more friction on the teeth to help scrape off plaque) and polyphosphates (calcium chelators/binders that help to capture it in the mouth before it forms tartar on the teeth)
- skin and coat support for the YT's fine, long hair (highly digestible protein for coat formation,enhanced levels of vitamin A, biotin, omega 6 fatty for coat gloss and EPA & DHA to help limit inflammation at the skin along with the specialized PINCH complex of vitamins and an amino acid to strengthen the skin)
- aging support for one of the longest living breeds (enhanced antioxidant complex to help limit free radical damage, EPA and DHA to help limit inflammation)
- Highly palatable for a finicky appetite (kibble design to help ease grasping for the tiny, delicate jaw, natural flavours and aromas to help the YT enjoy eating their food)

After formulation of every formula, we give it to our breeder network and owners for their feedback. Ultimately we want to make sure the performance we formulate our diets to have is actually visible in the dog. If anything is not up to our standards, we go back to the drawing board and adjust nutrient levels in the formula before asking them to evaluate it again.

Overall, both formulas are appropriate for a YT, but the additional nutritional support for the YT based on their specific needs help to provide that more tailored nutrition to the breed.

Hope this helps answer your question!
Ashley

[Nancy1999]

You say you are not as supplier and can't say where it came from, can you tell me, if you can find out if the chicken that is used in the USA come from the USA?

Also, I asked specifically about the vitamins. Can you find out what country they come from?

[RoyalCaninCA]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

You say you are not as supplier and can't say where it came from, can you tell me, if you can find out if the chicken that is used in the USA come from the USA?

Also, I asked specifically about the vitamins. Can you find out what country they come from?

Hi Nancy,

Sorry, but as I mentioned I am not a supplier. It would be best for you to phone in and discuss your questions with an RC associate for your country.

Thanks!
Ashley

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by RoyalCaninCA

Hi Nancy,

Sorry, but as I mentioned I am not a supplier. It would be best for you to phone in and discuss your questions with an RC associate for your country.

Thanks!
Ashley

Okay, I will.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by RoyalCaninCA

Hi Nancy,

Sorry, but as I mentioned I am not a supplier. It would be best for you to phone in and discuss your questions with an RC associate for your country.

Thanks!
Ashley

Just called, they will not give out that information.

[RoyalCaninCA]

Originally Posted by Britster

I should add that my mom, stepdad and little sister are adding a cockapoo puppy to the family this week (Thursday) and she has been eating RC Puppy. We will likely continue with that food for a while at least, so long as she is doing well on it. I have nothing against feeding it if it works well. Knowing my mom and step-dad though, they'll likely end up on a 'grocery store' brand, due to easy access, unless I continue ordering the food for them online.

Congratulations on the new addition! I will eagerly await the pictures you share I grew up with miniature poodles!! With mixes, I love to see which genetics win the phenotypic battle... more poodle curles or the long cocker ears?

[RoyalCaninCA]

Hi Everyone!

We've touched briefly on carbohydrates throughout our posts on the forum.

Challenge of the evening:

Carbohydrates are considered non-essential for survival. What does that mean for the dog or cat? What is their role in pet food?

Ashley

[Doodlebug]

Is it possible to get the prescription diets in a small breed formula? Our senior Yorkies have trouble chewing large kibble. We tried hammering it but that doesn't work that well. We tried a coffee grinder on course setting but it comes out powder. The nut grinder has worked out the best so far. It would be so much easier if we could just buy it in a small breed size.
Thanks

[RoyalCaninCA]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

Is it possible to get the prescription diets in a small breed formula? Our senior Yorkies have trouble chewing large kibble. We tried hammering it but that doesn't work that well. We tried a coffee grinder on course setting but it comes out powder. The nut grinder has worked out the best so far. It would be so much easier if we could just buy it in a small breed size.
Thanks

Hi @Doodlebug!

Some of our veterinary formulas are available in a small breed format. I think I remember you saying in a previous post you feed Hyperallergenic HP formula...? If yes, I did a quick check on the US RC website, and it appears there is a Hyperallergenic HP Small Breed formula in the US http://m.royalcanin.us/site/vetprodu...dprotein.html#

If your vet does not regularly stock it in the clinic, they should be able to order the small breed format for your little guys. I would give them a call to check

Ashley

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by RoyalCaninCA

. . . I do hope that you start asking more questions (and demanding more answers) about pet nutrition, beyond just the order of the ingredients on the label. The American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) provides a list of questions you should ask a pet food manufacturer https://www.aahanet.org/library/nutritionalasmt.aspx (questions located about half way down page, under Diet Factors).

Ashley

What if we are trying to get answers, but the pet food company won't give us the information. They won't even tell me if the vitamins do or don't come from China. That seems like a fairly basic question.

[RoyalCaninCA]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

What if we are trying to get answers, but the pet food company won't give us the information. They won't even tell me if the vitamins do or don't come from China. That seems like a fairly basic question.

Hi Nancy,

If you look through the AAHA questions, I have actually provided extremely detailed information for the specific question: "What specific quality control measures do you use to assure the consistency and quality of your product line?". The quality and control measures RC has set in place are to ensure that no matter where you source an ingredient from it is safe and precise.

Again, I am here to help in my area of expertise, answering nutrition related questions.

Ashley