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04-04-2007, 08:27 PM | #1 |
Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 120
| Lexi got tested for Liver Shunt - Advice?? Lexi has been acting different lately. She is 24 months & weighs about 4 1/2 lbs. About every month or so she was vomiting like 1 time yellow fluid. I thought maybe it was because she didn't eat or something. She is very playful. I was feeding her Royal Canin for Yorkies. Treats here & there. Nutro Natural Choice Lamb & Rice treats. Sometimes egg whites. In the last month, sometimes she would show signs of not wanting to move from the bed. I would try to pet her & her head goes down or she looks away. Then she wouldn't eat pr drink water. I took her to a a local vet because we had just moved to a new state like 6 months ago. He suggested an ultra-sound. I to her & the results were that her liver was small. No shunt was found. I took her for Bile Acids testing & he stated that the post meal was 39.6 (HIGH) Put her on Lactulose & Hills Science Diet L/D. Vet said Come back in a month for more testing. When I give her Lactulose, she doesn't drink water. Before all the testing, she went on an antibiotic & she wouldn't drink either. Can anyone who has been through this or knows about this help me? Give advice or suggestions?? Lexi is my baby & I don't want her to suffer. What should I do? |
Welcome Guest! | |
04-04-2007, 08:30 PM | #2 |
BANNED! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 9,999
| Im so sorry your baby is going through this. Ill keep her in my prayers. Im no help, I dont know much about it, But Im sure someone will come and help you. |
04-04-2007, 08:51 PM | #3 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Petaluma
Posts: 2,217
| I don't know the answer either although my Sophie had pancreatitis and colitis. She would vomit yellow bile, and then be very listless. She was in pain with both conditions. I do know that I was told that she should never go to bed hungry, and always have a biscuit so her tummy was not empty. Someone in the forum will surely have an answer for you soon, and since we are on Pacific Time, look for answers in the morning. Good luck and she should drink water. Try simmering parsley in water, cool, remove parsley. It is very soothing to the tummy. I have seen Pedialytic (sp) mentioned here a lot.
__________________ Peace and Light, Deborah My Sweet Sophie 1994-2007Welcome, Charlie Barley 4.14.07 & Sofia Bella 9.13.08 http://www.dogster.com/dogs/535291 |
04-04-2007, 09:40 PM | #4 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| My yorkie, Miko, also has liver problems...He was diagnosed a little over 2 yrs ago. Your baby might not have a liver shunt, but may have MVD, which is not operable but can be managed through diet, supplements, and medicines. If your baby won't drink water, then I would suggest you ask your vet to put her on the canned version of l/d. It has a high moisture content and she'll get hydrated that way. She should still be drinking water, but canned food will help. Also, the lactulose is very important. I know this is gross, but her poop should not be firm...It should be soft, but still formed (not diarrhea either). So you should adjust the amount of lactulose accordingly and your vet should help you figure this out. This is key to pushing the toxins out of your baby's body. If your baby likes yogurt, then you can mix the lactulose in with a tsp of Stonyfield Organic yogurt. The probiotics in yogurt are very beneficial for them. Also, you mentioned that your baby's liver is smaller than it's supposed to be which is very common in babies with liver shunt/mvd. Many of us with liver compromised dogs give our dogs Denosyl(depending on weight) and Milk Thistle (1/4 of the human dose). These two supplements can be purchased at any pharmacy and they help with liver function and help regenerate the liver. They are very helpful and in no way damaging to the liver or any other organs. Please do not give your baby any regular dog treats...They are too high in protein. For treats, consider giving green apples (peeled and cut up), watermelon (high moisture content, no seeds), things like that. If she has a liver shunt or mvd, that means that her liver cannot process protein like a normal liver. See, when protein is ingested, it turns to ammonia...This is supposed to be filtered through the liver, but because the liver is not functioning properly, it goes into their system and reaches the brain. This affects the liver compromised dog greatly by causing seizures, or head pressing, etc. If I were you, I would go to a specialist that is very knowledgable about liver problems. Many times, vets that are not specialized, will not see the liver shunt in the ultrasound. She may need a scintigraphy scan (I think that's what it's called) to really be able to tell if there's a shunt. If no shunt, it's very possible she may have MVD, but the only way to tell for sure is with a liver biopsy. There is a liver shunt/mvd support group on yahoo groups that you can join. The people there are extremely knowledgable and they have a wealth of information posted in their files section. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/ Please, if you have any questions at all, ask... P.S. So sorry for the lengthy post!!!
__________________ Miko 's his Mommy |
04-06-2007, 05:34 PM | #5 |
Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 120
| Yourkieluv, I would like to thank you for the detailed information. I am not satisfied with the vet's diagnosis. I feel that the info given to me was just give her meds and be back in a month. Nothing as to what I can give her, what else to look for. You know what I mean. I am going back to a specialist on Tuesday for another look at the results & any other testing that can be done. I don't want her to suffer & if there is anything I can do to make her life more pleasant I will do it. It breaks my heart because she is so precious to me. I love her deeply & no one else can understand unless they have a furbaby! She is currently on L/D canned & I have check her skin and also her gums to see if dehydrated. She is not. I am going to give her what you told me to see if I can get my baby back to comfortness. If anyone else can add to the comments, I would greatly appreciate it. |
04-06-2007, 05:55 PM | #6 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| How is she doing right now? Any vomitting or head pressing after meals? The L/D canned sounds good since your furbaby is not drinking much water. My yorkie is on Royal Canin Hepatic LS 14, which he really likes (unusual because he is very picky), but it's a dry food with no animal proteins, increased zinc, lower copper, things like that. They recently put him on Hill's U/D canned to dissolve the ammonium urate stones (common in dogs with liver shunt), but that food made him very sick. He was head pressing and having seizures after meals, so we put him back on his old food and he's doing much better. They say that dogs with these liver conditions (and you don't know about it yet) are very picky eaters because when they eat and they feel sick, they attribute the sickness to the food, which is usually the case. You sound like a wonderful mommy, and you're doing great asking as many questions as possible. That's what is going to make the difference for your baby. Please join the liver shunt/mvd group, as I can guide you to some files that will be very beneficial for you.
__________________ Miko 's his Mommy |
04-06-2007, 06:06 PM | #7 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: SW Fl
Posts: 1,808
| Piper had a bile acid test 6 months ago. It was 200 fasting & 300 after. off the charts. The vet was really concerned, so I drove to another city to have more tests done. After 2 ultrasounds & talking to 2 specialists, that didn't seem to concerned since they didn't see anything on the ultra sounds. Have me waiting 6 months to preform another bile acid test. She shows no symtoms. I was told NOT to change her diet or add anything to her diet. I've always had her on a lower protien diet. We'll see when we go in this month sometime. The specialist told me that some dogs run higher than others,& not to worry, but I think Pipers is way out there. I'm seeing a specialist thats flying in from Maryland in a couple of weeks.
__________________ Debbie (mommy to) Misha, Piper & Maximillion |
04-06-2007, 06:14 PM | #8 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| Wow Pipersmommy, those results are really off the charts...If she doesn't have a liver shunt, maybe MVD, or another liver problem? Praying for your furbaby! Hopefully this specialist has lots of experience with liver issues. Good luck at your appt!
__________________ Miko 's his Mommy |
04-06-2007, 06:19 PM | #9 |
Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 120
| No. There is no vomitting now or head pressing ever. Just that her stomach seems bothered. She does not rollover sometimes for a belly rub and kinda looks at me funny like she doesn't want me to touch her or move her. I remember the first symtoms were that she would go to another end of the bed and kinda do the bow thing, butt in the air and I knew something was wrong. They precribed 2ml of Lactulose twice a day & the l/d. WOW thats a lot of medicine. With the medicine, she is very playful & then every now & then is still in her bed and doesn't want to play at all. Not normal!!! |
04-06-2007, 06:38 PM | #10 |
BANNED FOR STEALING YORKIETALK CONTENT! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Residenting in Wichita, Ks / Hometown in Arlington, Tx
Posts: 6,704
| awwww !! i'm so sowie to hear about you baby not feeling to good but i would try to get a second vet's opinion to make sure. but our thoughts and prayer are with you and your baby to get well soon !! |
04-13-2007, 04:26 PM | #11 |
Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 120
| I have gone to the specialist for Internal Medicine. He said that since the ultrasound didn't show a shunt, liver is small, Bile was only a 39 post food, & sugar elevated.... he suggested we do a biopsy. If they find a shunt, they will operate right there. I am really worried about this. I am not prepared to lose my baby if it doesn't work. I do want her to be out of her misery. She was throwing up again at 3am. 3 times...over 2 hours. I then saw a couple traces of blood..... put her in the car & went to hospital to see the internist again. Said she was ok.. playing... moving around. I gave her nausia medicine & is fine right now. No lactulose for 3 days with monitoring til we get stomach settled. I know I may have to do the biopsy. Wow.... I am scared. He stated he didn't want to do anything yet til her tummy settles. What could this be???? Possible toxins in the yard she may have gotten into..... a virus..... her breeder said no problems with parents or sib's. I have joined yahoo group for Liver Shunt... very hard to navigate. Please help! I need your advice. Surgery cost is $3200. |
04-13-2007, 06:36 PM | #12 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| $3200?? That's a lot of money...Where are you going for the surgery? I've seen anywhere from $1500-$3000, but that's INCLUDING all pre-tests (ie. scintigraphy, ultrasounds, etc) and post-op stuff. I know you are worried about your baby. I will pm you and try to help you navigate through the liver shunt group. Don't worry...I know it's easier said than done, but just try to be calm for your baby. I know I was a basketcase too though. I know plenty of people who have had their 4lb and less dogs go through the surgery and come out just fine. You just have to make sure that the place you go to is very knowledgable and super experienced.
__________________ Miko 's his Mommy |
04-13-2007, 08:24 PM | #13 |
My Angels Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Colorful Colorado
Posts: 2,260
| I am no help with the liver shunt info but Louie wasnt feeling great for the last three days and wouldnt eat or drink either. It ended up that he must have tweeked his back a little and that is why he was acting that way. Anyway, I was giving him a bath and by accident when I was spraying his face off I noticed that when I sprayed his face he would automatically drink the water. That is how I kept him hydrated and he didnt get too sick. You might try that if she refuses to drink. I was trying to syringe it into his mouth and he was putting up a heck of a fit and more was landing on his fur than in his mouth. Spraying the water on his mouth worked great and he was lapping it as fast as he could because it is an automatic impulse for them to do that. Last edited by CO_yorkie_momma; 04-13-2007 at 08:26 PM. |
04-14-2007, 03:17 PM | #14 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: kentucky
Posts: 133
| I just came to this topic. Chato also had the liver shunt surgery and we did not pay more than 1500 dls. An ultrasound will not confirm the shunt. If he has one he needs to get a test called centigraphy where they inject some dyes in his system that fluoresce the shunt in the liver. I took my baby to the University of Tenesee where they invented the constrictor ring that closes the shunt. I will strongly suggest you to go to that clinic. I know you are far away but I think it worth. I would make myself more sure that is a liver shunt so that you can take that trip to TN. You will require a whole 4 days. Usually the centigraphy tests take one day since they put them on anesthesia. If they confirm the shunt they go to surgery the next day and the next day they spend it in Intensive care. then next day they get released. Here are all the doctors that are in the liver shunt research and this are the ones that came up the the cure for liver shunt. If you need more info let me know. CHato needs to be checked for bile acids in 2 months. I still feed him LD and lactulose after each meal. Good luck! Eri |
04-14-2007, 03:22 PM | #15 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| University of Tennessee is the best vet hospital to have the liver shunt surgery done. Dr. Tobias is wonderful, and heads up the liver shunt research.
__________________ Miko 's his Mommy |
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