Lexi got tested for Liver Shunt - Advice?? - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

ACTRESS · 04-17-2007, 07:36 PM

I had Lexi on nausua medicine for 3 days w/o lactulose becuase she was throwing up last week. Vet said start lactulose back up on Mon. I did. Evrything ok yesterday. Today, she just wants to sleep. Doesn't drink much water. She has gained weight. Vet wants to do exploratory surgery. I am not sure if needed. Maybe it's stomach problems. Could be a virus. I just don't want to open her up if we don't need to. Any suggestions?? Also, what kind of foods can she eat with Liver Shunt?? You know how you give your baby a bath & after they roll on the ground to get the water off, is that head pressing??? What does head pressing look like?

Yorkieluv · 04-17-2007, 07:46 PM

Did your vet do a scintigraphy to see where the shunt is?
Hill's l/d and Royal Canin Hepatic LS 14 are supposed to be best for dogs with liver shunts...I prefer to give Miko the Royal Canin because it has only 14% protein and it's non animal protein...It has increased amounts of zinc which is needed by dogs with this condition. Head pressing can be like you described...Also they'll walk along the furniture, walls, or whatever pressing the side of their head into it or even the floor. I'm so sorry your baby has been vomitting..That's how they get with this condition when they're showing signs of HE. It's very important that she get her lactulose though. Sometimes when Miko is nauseous and he throws up his lactulose twice in a day, he'll start showing signs of HE like headpressing, seizures, lethargy, etc. But as soon as he's able to keep the lactulose down, he starts feeling better. It's important that you give the lactulose after meals so that it pushes the toxins out quickly. Did the vet say if the shunt is operable??

Yorkieluv · 04-17-2007, 07:53 PM

Foods that are safe (but don't give too much of the ones with protein): Eggs, low fat cottage cheese, yogurt
Oatmeal, barley, whole wheat bread, pulped vegetable skins and canned pumpkin, pasta, rice, chicken broth(low sodium and not too much)
Fiber is good for them as it helps absorb the ammonia and push out the toxins...
Omega-3 fatty acids are good and can be found in fish oil...

I hope this helps!

Are you giving denosyl (same-e) or milk thistle?

ACTRESS · 04-17-2007, 08:08 PM

They didn't see it in a ultrasound. Said her liver was quite small. He said it was a waste to do the scintography. Wanted to look inside. Sometimes after she eats L/D she wipes her head against the floor. I thought she was trying to get food off of her hair on face. I saw that she could eat chicken & I gave her some baked breast that was cut up. Like a tablespoon with egg chopped up. She ate it & I administered lactulose. She is sleeping now. She loves cucumbers, carrots and other veggies. I have her on the canned l/d. When she was on nausua med she ate & drank a lot. Now very picky with lactulose. I am not sure what I should do. I hate to have her opened up. I am scared.

Yorkieluv · 04-17-2007, 08:31 PM

Chicken is not recommended when they are showing signs of HE because it's really hard on their livers...Maybe give her a little rice with some chicken broth and maybe a little egg in it and some veggies like carrots or green beans or whatever...Since dogs can't digest veggies like us, they should be lightly steamed or pureed like in a juicer or food processor.

Maybe the l/d is not good for her. Miko was recently put on Hill's prescription u/d and he had the same problems as your baby...Head pressing after meals and eventually seizures after a couple of days of that. We took him off of the Hill's and he got better on the RC Hepatic (which he had always been on before that week).

Miko does not take his lactulose willingly either. We use to have to force it in the side of his mouth, but we have found that he will eat it as long as it's mixed in with yogurt or cottage cheese. But make sure your baby licks the plate clean. So just give a little yogurt/cottage cheese mixed with the lactulose so that you can insure that she will eat it all.

Yorkieluv · 04-17-2007, 08:35 PM

I know you're scared...we went through the same thing...Our vet could not find the shunt on the ultrasound, so he went in for exploratory surgery and was not able to find the shunt. I wish we would have had the scintigraphy done. The other thing I wish he would have done while he had Miko open is a liver biopsy...So when your vet goes in, make sure he does the liver biopsy...Since our vet didn't do that, we do not know for sure if Miko has an intrahepatic shunt(s) or MVD...

Sweetums · 04-18-2007, 08:44 PM

Are you keeping a food diary? Our Pookie often throws up when she hasn't eaten in over 6 hours. She becomes nauseated whenever her stomach is too empty, so we tend to feed her every 4 hours or so. You said she threw up in the morning and also at 3 a.m. You mentioned it is foamy and yellowish. This is typical for throw up on an empty stomach.

I'm just suggesting this because it's a possibility that your dog just has a very sensative stomach, particularly if the tests don't show a problem with the liver. I think it would be worth it to keep track of how much your puppy eats and whether she is throwing up four or more hours after eating which might indicate nausea on an empty stomach. My daughter had this issue, so I kind of just figured it was obvious when our Pookie threw up on an empty stomach that this was the problem.

Sweetums · 04-18-2007, 08:55 PM

Okay, I left a whole chunk out of my last post and the site won't let me edit, so I'm going to add it in and repost. Sorry for the repeat.

Are you keeping a food diary? Our Pookie often throws up when she hasn't eaten in over 6 hours. She becomes nauseated whenever her stomach is too empty, so we tend to feed her every 4 hours or so. You said your puppy threw up in the morning and also at 3 a.m. You mentioned it is foamy and yellowish. This is typical for throw up on an empty stomach. If your puppy hadn't eaten just prior to bedtime, then her stomach may very well have been empty by 3 a.m. Have you tried getting something into her to see if her stomach settles?

When Pookie is nauseated from an empty stomach, she won't eat because of the nausea, making things worse. So we sort of "prime the pump" first by giving her something she won't turn her nose up at or can't turn her nose up at. We make her a baby-cereal, baby meat "mush" that we feed her with a syringe, and once she has some in her stomach, she will go on to eat regular food and feel fine again. The recipe is:

1/2 cup half-and-half
1/2 cup instant baby cereal
1 whole jar of Gerber strained meat (anything but turkey)
1 tsp. Karo syrup (or pancake syrup if no Karo is available)

Just warm the half-and-half, mix in the cereal, stir in the meat and Karo. If it is too thick, thin it out with water. Suck some into one of those plastic syringes that they use to give babies medication, put it in the corner of her mouth and gradually squirt it in.

Wait to see if this settles her stomach and if she appears normal and wants to eat regular food 15 mins to 1/2 hour later. We also make sure she eats just prior to bedtime so her tummy does not get completely empty by morning.

I'm just suggesting this because it's a possibility that your dog just has a very sensative stomach, particularly if the tests don't show a problem with the liver. I think it would be worth it to keep track of how much your puppy eats and whether she is throwing up four or more hours after eating which might indicate nausea on an empty stomach and trying the above remedy. My daughter had this issue, so I kind of just figured it was obvious when our Pookie threw up on an empty stomach that this was the problem.

Yorkieluv · 04-21-2007, 09:58 AM

How is Lexi doing??

ACTRESS · 04-25-2007, 08:32 PM

I did 2 bile acids tests and they both showed an elevated post meal. I had an ultrasound done & no shunt seen. After countless vomit & diarrhea episodes I felt I had no other option but to get a biopsy or perform the surgery for a shunt. When they went in, they did not see a shunt but did get a biopsy. I am waiting for the results. I did those tests because I did not want to open her up. I also was fearful of the anesthesia. Thank the Lord that she survived that. Now, she has a huge incision. One that was 2 1/2 times bigger than her spay. I feel badly about it. I have spent close to $4000 so far. I am more concerned about getting her better. I brought her home today & she is whimpering. I gave her nausua medicine & pain medicine as prescribed. My heart is in agony. I have been so emotional about this. Crying like you wouldn't believe. I saw a post about Giardia. I need more info on it. I live in Scottsdale & it may be possible that she may have sniffed some bird poopie & caught a virus. I am calling the vet tomorrow to ask about this. Please..... everyone... keep us in your prayers.

Yorkieluv · 04-26-2007, 06:21 AM

I know it's hard to see that incision, but it will fade away, and her hair will grow back to cover it. When Miko first had surgery and it was healing up, my heart was broken just thinking about the pain he must have felt

We will keep her in our prayers. The liver biopsy will be able to tell you if she has MVD or some other liver disease. Treatment for MVD is much like liver shunt. Keep us posted!

RMKC · 04-26-2007, 07:34 AM

aaah poor baby, please give her lots of get well kisses from us !

Princessgrace · 04-30-2007, 05:34 PM

Hi Folks,

My name is Debbie and I'm new to the board. I've been trying to find all the posts on here that pertain to liver shunt. I purchased a 10 week old Yorkie last month. She never had a very good appetite and was on the thin side, but the vet checked her and said she looked okay on physical exam. After getting her puppy shot, she got sick and wouldn't eat. We gave her boiled chicken and the vet put her on Science Diet AD. That's when the liver shunt symptoms popped out. Last Wednesday my Mom called me at work and said she thought Grace was dying. I rushed home and got her and ran to the vet. I thought she would be dead by the time I got her there. She was blind, salivating heavily, walking along the walls and had that post seizure look about her. My vet was pretty sure what she was seeing and said to let her put her on IVs all day and see if she could bring her around. She kept her all day and even took her home with her for the night (I just love my vet). The furbaby she gave me back the next day was a different one! She was full of energy and eating her KD like a pig. She is on Biosol and Lactalose too and is gaining weight!! Grace is scheduled to have a bile acid test on Wednesday. I talked to the University of Tennessee today (I live 5 hours away) and they sound wonderful! We are about 95% sure that she will have to have surgery. I checked two places in Columbus (I live in Ohio). One gave an estimate of 1900 - 2700. The girl I talked to today at Ohio State said it would be a minimum of 2800. It's worth the drive and hotel for the 3-4 nights. Has anyone else had the surgery there? What am I in for? Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Debbie

prettypuppypink · 04-30-2007, 05:46 PM

Bumping this up!

prettypuppypink · 04-30-2007, 05:47 PM

Bumping this up!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princessgrace

Hi Folks,

My name is Debbie and I'm new to the board. I've been trying to find all the posts on here that pertain to liver shunt. I purchased a 10 week old Yorkie last month. She never had a very good appetite and was on the thin side, but the vet checked her and said she looked okay on physical exam. After getting her puppy shot, she got sick and wouldn't eat. We gave her boiled chicken and the vet put her on Science Diet AD. That's when the liver shunt symptoms popped out. Last Wednesday my Mom called me at work and said she thought Grace was dying. I rushed home and got her and ran to the vet. I thought she would be dead by the time I got her there. She was blind, salivating heavily, walking along the walls and had that post seizure look about her. My vet was pretty sure what she was seeing and said to let her put her on IVs all day and see if she could bring her around. She kept her all day and even took her home with her for the night (I just love my vet). The furbaby she gave me back the next day was a different one! She was full of energy and eating her KD like a pig. She is on Biosol and Lactalose too and is gaining weight!! Grace is scheduled to have a bile acid test on Wednesday. I talked to the University of Tennessee today (I live 5 hours away) and they sound wonderful! We are about 95% sure that she will have to have surgery. I checked two places in Columbus (I live in Ohio). One gave an estimate of 1900 - 2700. The girl I talked to today at Ohio State said it would be a minimum of 2800. It's worth the drive and hotel for the 3-4 nights. Has anyone else had the surgery there? What am I in for? Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Debbie

04-17-2007, 07:46 PM	#17
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	Did your vet do a scintigraphy to see where the shunt is? Hill's l/d and Royal Canin Hepatic LS 14 are supposed to be best for dogs with liver shunts...I prefer to give Miko the Royal Canin because it has only 14% protein and it's non animal protein...It has increased amounts of zinc which is needed by dogs with this condition. Head pressing can be like you described...Also they'll walk along the furniture, walls, or whatever pressing the side of their head into it or even the floor. I'm so sorry your baby has been vomitting..That's how they get with this condition when they're showing signs of HE. It's very important that she get her lactulose though. Sometimes when Miko is nauseous and he throws up his lactulose twice in a day, he'll start showing signs of HE like headpressing, seizures, lethargy, etc. But as soon as he's able to keep the lactulose down, he starts feeling better. It's important that you give the lactulose after meals so that it pushes the toxins out quickly. Did the vet say if the shunt is operable?? __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

04-17-2007, 07:53 PM	#18
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	Foods that are safe (but don't give too much of the ones with protein): Eggs, low fat cottage cheese, yogurt Oatmeal, barley, whole wheat bread, pulped vegetable skins and canned pumpkin, pasta, rice, chicken broth(low sodium and not too much) Fiber is good for them as it helps absorb the ammonia and push out the toxins... Omega-3 fatty acids are good and can be found in fish oil... I hope this helps! Are you giving denosyl (same-e) or milk thistle? __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

04-17-2007, 08:31 PM	#20
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	Chicken is not recommended when they are showing signs of HE because it's really hard on their livers...Maybe give her a little rice with some chicken broth and maybe a little egg in it and some veggies like carrots or green beans or whatever...Since dogs can't digest veggies like us, they should be lightly steamed or pureed like in a juicer or food processor. Maybe the l/d is not good for her. Miko was recently put on Hill's prescription u/d and he had the same problems as your baby...Head pressing after meals and eventually seizures after a couple of days of that. We took him off of the Hill's and he got better on the RC Hepatic (which he had always been on before that week). Miko does not take his lactulose willingly either. We use to have to force it in the side of his mouth, but we have found that he will eat it as long as it's mixed in with yogurt or cottage cheese. But make sure your baby licks the plate clean. So just give a little yogurt/cottage cheese mixed with the lactulose so that you can insure that she will eat it all. __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

04-17-2007, 08:35 PM	#21
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	I know you're scared...we went through the same thing...Our vet could not find the shunt on the ultrasound, so he went in for exploratory surgery and was not able to find the shunt. I wish we would have had the scintigraphy done. The other thing I wish he would have done while he had Miko open is a liver biopsy...So when your vet goes in, make sure he does the liver biopsy...Since our vet didn't do that, we do not know for sure if Miko has an intrahepatic shunt(s) or MVD... __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

04-18-2007, 08:55 PM	#23
Sweetums Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kirkland WA Posts: 431	Okay, I left a whole chunk out of my last post and the site won't let me edit, so I'm going to add it in and repost. Sorry for the repeat. Are you keeping a food diary? Our Pookie often throws up when she hasn't eaten in over 6 hours. She becomes nauseated whenever her stomach is too empty, so we tend to feed her every 4 hours or so. You said your puppy threw up in the morning and also at 3 a.m. You mentioned it is foamy and yellowish. This is typical for throw up on an empty stomach. If your puppy hadn't eaten just prior to bedtime, then her stomach may very well have been empty by 3 a.m. Have you tried getting something into her to see if her stomach settles? When Pookie is nauseated from an empty stomach, she won't eat because of the nausea, making things worse. So we sort of "prime the pump" first by giving her something she won't turn her nose up at or can't turn her nose up at. We make her a baby-cereal, baby meat "mush" that we feed her with a syringe, and once she has some in her stomach, she will go on to eat regular food and feel fine again. The recipe is: 1/2 cup half-and-half 1/2 cup instant baby cereal 1 whole jar of Gerber strained meat (anything but turkey) 1 tsp. Karo syrup (or pancake syrup if no Karo is available) Just warm the half-and-half, mix in the cereal, stir in the meat and Karo. If it is too thick, thin it out with water. Suck some into one of those plastic syringes that they use to give babies medication, put it in the corner of her mouth and gradually squirt it in. Wait to see if this settles her stomach and if she appears normal and wants to eat regular food 15 mins to 1/2 hour later. We also make sure she eats just prior to bedtime so her tummy does not get completely empty by morning. I'm just suggesting this because it's a possibility that your dog just has a very sensative stomach, particularly if the tests don't show a problem with the liver. I think it would be worth it to keep track of how much your puppy eats and whether she is throwing up four or more hours after eating which might indicate nausea on an empty stomach and trying the above remedy. My daughter had this issue, so I kind of just figured it was obvious when our Pookie threw up on an empty stomach that this was the problem. Last edited by Sweetums; 04-18-2007 at 08:57 PM.

04-17-2007, 07:36 PM	#16
ACTRESS Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 120	I had Lexi on nausua medicine for 3 days w/o lactulose becuase she was throwing up last week. Vet said start lactulose back up on Mon. I did. Evrything ok yesterday. Today, she just wants to sleep. Doesn't drink much water. She has gained weight. Vet wants to do exploratory surgery. I am not sure if needed. Maybe it's stomach problems. Could be a virus. I just don't want to open her up if we don't need to. Any suggestions?? Also, what kind of foods can she eat with Liver Shunt?? You know how you give your baby a bath & after they roll on the ground to get the water off, is that head pressing??? What does head pressing look like?

04-17-2007, 08:08 PM	#19
ACTRESS Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 120	They didn't see it in a ultrasound. Said her liver was quite small. He said it was a waste to do the scintography. Wanted to look inside. Sometimes after she eats L/D she wipes her head against the floor. I thought she was trying to get food off of her hair on face. I saw that she could eat chicken & I gave her some baked breast that was cut up. Like a tablespoon with egg chopped up. She ate it & I administered lactulose. She is sleeping now. She loves cucumbers, carrots and other veggies. I have her on the canned l/d. When she was on nausua med she ate & drank a lot. Now very picky with lactulose. I am not sure what I should do. I hate to have her opened up. I am scared.

04-18-2007, 08:44 PM	#22
Sweetums Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kirkland WA Posts: 431	Are you keeping a food diary? Our Pookie often throws up when she hasn't eaten in over 6 hours. She becomes nauseated whenever her stomach is too empty, so we tend to feed her every 4 hours or so. You said she threw up in the morning and also at 3 a.m. You mentioned it is foamy and yellowish. This is typical for throw up on an empty stomach. I'm just suggesting this because it's a possibility that your dog just has a very sensative stomach, particularly if the tests don't show a problem with the liver. I think it would be worth it to keep track of how much your puppy eats and whether she is throwing up four or more hours after eating which might indicate nausea on an empty stomach. My daughter had this issue, so I kind of just figured it was obvious when our Pookie threw up on an empty stomach that this was the problem.

04-21-2007, 09:58 AM	#24
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	How is Lexi doing?? __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

04-25-2007, 08:32 PM	#25
ACTRESS Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 120	I did 2 bile acids tests and they both showed an elevated post meal. I had an ultrasound done & no shunt seen. After countless vomit & diarrhea episodes I felt I had no other option but to get a biopsy or perform the surgery for a shunt. When they went in, they did not see a shunt but did get a biopsy. I am waiting for the results. I did those tests because I did not want to open her up. I also was fearful of the anesthesia. Thank the Lord that she survived that. Now, she has a huge incision. One that was 2 1/2 times bigger than her spay. I feel badly about it. I have spent close to $4000 so far. I am more concerned about getting her better. I brought her home today & she is whimpering. I gave her nausua medicine & pain medicine as prescribed. My heart is in agony. I have been so emotional about this. Crying like you wouldn't believe. I saw a post about Giardia. I need more info on it. I live in Scottsdale & it may be possible that she may have sniffed some bird poopie & caught a virus. I am calling the vet tomorrow to ask about this. Please..... everyone... keep us in your prayers.

04-26-2007, 06:21 AM	#26
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	I know it's hard to see that incision, but it will fade away, and her hair will grow back to cover it. When Miko first had surgery and it was healing up, my heart was broken just thinking about the pain he must have felt We will keep her in our prayers. The liver biopsy will be able to tell you if she has MVD or some other liver disease. Treatment for MVD is much like liver shunt. Keep us posted! __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

04-26-2007, 07:34 AM	#27
RMKC Rosi & Poli's Mom Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Washington State Posts: 5,428	aaah poor baby, please give her lots of get well kisses from us ! __________________ ROSI & POLI Love my Babies

04-30-2007, 05:34 PM	#28
Princessgrace Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 30	Little Grace With Possible Liver Shunt Hi Folks, My name is Debbie and I'm new to the board. I've been trying to find all the posts on here that pertain to liver shunt. I purchased a 10 week old Yorkie last month. She never had a very good appetite and was on the thin side, but the vet checked her and said she looked okay on physical exam. After getting her puppy shot, she got sick and wouldn't eat. We gave her boiled chicken and the vet put her on Science Diet AD. That's when the liver shunt symptoms popped out. Last Wednesday my Mom called me at work and said she thought Grace was dying. I rushed home and got her and ran to the vet. I thought she would be dead by the time I got her there. She was blind, salivating heavily, walking along the walls and had that post seizure look about her. My vet was pretty sure what she was seeing and said to let her put her on IVs all day and see if she could bring her around. She kept her all day and even took her home with her for the night (I just love my vet). The furbaby she gave me back the next day was a different one! She was full of energy and eating her KD like a pig. She is on Biosol and Lactalose too and is gaining weight!! Grace is scheduled to have a bile acid test on Wednesday. I talked to the University of Tennessee today (I live 5 hours away) and they sound wonderful! We are about 95% sure that she will have to have surgery. I checked two places in Columbus (I live in Ohio). One gave an estimate of 1900 - 2700. The girl I talked to today at Ohio State said it would be a minimum of 2800. It's worth the drive and hotel for the 3-4 nights. Has anyone else had the surgery there? What am I in for? Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Debbie

04-30-2007, 05:46 PM	#29
prettypuppypink Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 739	Bumping this up!