liver issues

[ally173]

Originally Posted by dwerten

I would not supplement an ibd dog with this until the dog is on the right diet first as diet is key as you have to stay very basic with a dog with health issues and then branch out one thing at a time and if reaction you disguard that thing and never use a gain.

I contacted nordic naturals to make sure they had vitamin E in the omega-3 and they confirmed they do have vitamin E in it but never hurts to double check with them as things are constantly changing.

Ibd dogs are very prone to pancreatitis especially if the ibd is in the small intestines which I believe Ava has as she vomits not so much diarrhea. Vomitting is small intestines, diarrhea is large intestine and vomitting and diarrhea is the entire intestinal tract. If the fatty acid goes wrong then it can trigger pancreatitis in an ibd dog - I personally would not risk it with an ibd or pancreatitis dog.

what about amino acids; like glutamine (sometimes they add it in the food)
and zinc-carnosine (which is in gastri-smooth) to promote healing of the GI track.
has anyone here used it or heard of it.
thanks

[ally173]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Well, she did say use only if tolerated, but I don't want to find out that it's not tolerated too late! She has always done fine on fish oil before and it has never set her off. She just hasn't been on any for awhile. Sigh. All so hard.

Elliemae and manolo; has ur dogs done well on omega oil; do they have IBD. i am scared that it will set another flare. but omega is supposed to bring down the inflammation. i want to use this instead of prednisone in the future.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by ally173

Elliemae and manolo; has ur dogs done well on omega oil; do they have IBD. i am scared that it will set another flare. but omega is supposed to bring down the inflammation. i want to use this instead of prednisone in the future.

The only protein Ellie can tolerate right now is fish. Everything else causes stool issues and carbs tend to set her off too. She was on 3V Caps on her old fish diet and did fantastic. It wasn't high enough in calories though, but too high in fat. I haven't tried any fish oil since the last bout of pancreatitis. Not sure that it would do any good but may try.

It is possible that this product can help with IBD, yes. But that has to be weighed case by case b/c of the fat increase in the diet.

[ally173]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

The only protein Ellie can tolerate right now is fish. Everything else causes stool issues and carbs tend to set her off too. She was on 3V Caps on her old fish diet and did fantastic. It wasn't high enough in calories though, but too high in fat. I haven't tried any fish oil since the last bout of pancreatitis. Not sure that it would do any good but may try.

It is possible that this product can help with IBD, yes. But that has to be weighed case by case b/c of the fat increase in the diet.

thanks for the info.
now how much fat content are we talking about for one capsule of nordic omega-3. i was thinking to give her one every other day.
i am going to ask her vet; but he always says yes lets try it to everything

[kjc]

Originally Posted by ally173

thanks for the info.
now how much fat content are we talking about for one capsule of nordic omega-3. i was thinking to give her one every other day.
i am going to ask her vet; but he always says yes lets try it to everything

This is why I recommended (months ago, on your thread) coconut oil or milk (comes in powder form) because it is plant based and the body metabolizes it differently than oils/fat from animal sources, and it is much less likely to cause issues with the pancreas and IBD.

Amino acids occur naturally in people and dogs. Dogs with gastro (tummy) problems may not have enough Amino acids in their systems to support total, complete digestion, and supplementation would help solve this problem.

Because without the tools (aminoacids and proteins) the food justs rots in their tummies and then they puke it up.

The inflammation in the intestines gives bad bacteria a good place to hang out and create havoc with the whole system.

Adding the supplements will digest the food before it rots and should stop any vomiting.

Probiotics with digestive enzymes contains everything she needs for her body to do what it can't do but needs to do with food.

It will also provide an overload of good bacteria naturally found in a normal intestine which will help to flush out the bad bacteria which makes her sick.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by kjc

This is why I recommended (months ago, on your thread) coconut oil or milk (comes in powder form) because it is plant based and the body metabolizes it differently than oils/fat from animal sources, and it is much less likely to cause issues with the pancreas and IBD.

Amino acids occur naturally in people and dogs. Dogs with gastro (tummy) problems may not have enough Amino acids in their systems to support total, complete digestion, and supplementation would help solve this problem.

Because without the tools (aminoacids and proteins) the food justs rots in their tummies and then they puke it up.

The inflammation in the intestines gives bad bacteria a good place to hang out and create havoc with the whole system.

Adding the supplements will digest the food before it rots and should stop any vomiting.

Probiotics with digestive enzymes contains everything she needs for her body to do what it can't do but needs to do with food.

It will also provide an overload of good bacteria naturally found in a normal intestine which will help to flush out the bad bacteria which makes her sick.

I have a question though. I have read that coconut oil is best for dogs with ibd and pancreas issues and why i am more comfortable with coconut oil than fish oils for these dogs as fatty acids. Coconut oil is a natural antifungal and anti-bacterial and i use it for hot spots and it is amazing heals fast. I gave to dee dee for a couple years and no diarrhea nor staph infections so it really does work as when i stopped it she got a few staph infections.

I agree with probiotics too for sure but have always learned that probiotics are to be given 20-30 min before food in am and digestive enzymes are to be given with food that is processed or home cooked as you do not need digestive enzymes with raw as they have natural enzymes to digest the food naturally where as cooked and processed foods the natural enzymes are cooked out of it. I just think it makes more sense to separate like this as on a couple dog nutrition groups and this is how they say to do it as the probiotics coat the stomach and intestines prior to food being introduced into the body to keep the good bacteria count higher for dogs with allergies and intestinal issues.

If you mix the two all at once with food it seems the digestive enzymes would kill the good bacteria before it has time to coat the intestines and stomach to protect it.

I want to get your thoughts on this as this is what i have always learned

also learned you do not want to do raw with ibd dogs as the inflammation can cause food to sit in digestive tract too long thus causing things like ecoli or salmonella

[ally173]

i asked the vet today about adding the omega and he said yes it's good to add essential fatty acid.

[kjc]

I will interject my comments in blue

Originally Posted by dwerten

I have a question though. I have read that coconut oil is best for dogs with ibd and pancreas issues and why i am more comfortable with coconut oil than fish oils for these dogs as fatty acids. Coconut oil is a natural antifungal and anti-bacterial (as are all edible parts of the coconut, including the milk) and i use it for hot spots and it is amazing heals fast. I gave to dee dee for a couple years and no diarrhea nor staph infections so it really does work as when i stopped it she got a few staph infections.

I agree with probiotics too for sure but have always learned that probiotics are to be given 20-30 min before food in am and digestive enzymes are to be given with food that is processed or home cooked as you do not need digestive enzymes with raw as they have natural enzymes to digest the food naturally where as cooked and processed foods the natural enzymes are cooked out of it. I just think it makes more sense to separate like this as on a couple dog nutrition groups and this is how they say to do it as the probiotics coat the stomach and intestines prior to food being introduced into the body to keep the good bacteria count higher for dogs with allergies and intestinal issues.

The product I use, Dogzymes Digestive Enhancer, contains Prebiotics (special fiber that has spaces on it for the good bacteria to attach and live on), Probiotics, digestive bacteria and enzymes. It can be mixed with water and given by syringe, or sprinkled on the food, but needs to be in the stomach with the food, either before or during feeding, not after. Maybe different products react differently depending on the manufacturer/process. This product is made specifically for dogs, not humans... difference may lie there?


If you mix the two all at once with food it seems the digestive enzymes would kill the good bacteria before it has time to coat the intestines and stomach to protect it.

I read that the enzymes don't harm the bacteria, they are more geared to the proteins, carbs, and fats in the food. In a normal gut, all these elements are present, coexisting, and functioning together on a daily basis.

I think, too, that after it has been consumed on a regular basis, the problem gut starts to change (less bad bacteria, more good) and as normal functioning returns, maybe not as critical. This product also states the dose can be safely doubled during times of stress or compromised digestive function.


I want to get your thoughts on this as this is what i have always learned

also learned you do not want to do raw with ibd dogs as the inflammation can cause food to sit in digestive tract too long thus causing things like ecoli or salmonella

True. Many normal animal guts can handle an occasional dose of ecoli or salmonella. The normal, healthy gut flora prevents these vectors from having any effect on the healthy system. Dogs with problems don't have the natural defenses to fight off the bad stuff and it can end up flourishing in their system making them sick.

My Liver Shunt dog had recurring problems from improper digestion, and was very hard, actually impossible to get any kind of weight on her... and she was a picky eater, and got recurring UTIs.
Since the antibiotics to clear up the UTI, and being fed the Dogzymes with each meal (doule dose for the first month), she has more of an appetite, has gained weight: she doesn't look sickly thin anymore, and she also gets coconut oil and/or powdered coconut milk.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by kjc

I will interject my comments in blue



My Liver Shunt dog had recurring problems from improper digestion, and was very hard, actually impossible to get any kind of weight on her... and she was a picky eater, and got recurring UTIs.
Since the antibiotics to clear up the UTI, and being fed the Dogzymes with each meal (doule dose for the first month), she has more of an appetite, has gained weight: she doesn't look sickly thin anymore, and she also gets coconut oil and/or powdered coconut milk.

dang you are tricky with your quotes I am not good at that

ok thanks for explaining so you are sure the digestive enzymes will not kill the probiotics though ? Cannot argue with what is working though

I always double up with the probiotics when dd spins out of control and knocks it out right away. This one nutritionist I like wanted dd on blue green algae digestive enzymes but i was too scared as I believe that is high in iodine and with her hypothyroid they cannot have kelp and stuff with high iodine in it I have just done the probiotics and coconut oil thus far.

[kjc]

Correction: Coconut oil is a MCFA (Medium Chain Fatty Acid). Most oils we consume (98-100%), of animal or vegetable origin, are LCFA (Long Chain Fatty Acids). This is what causes the body to metabolize it differently, not bc it is plant based as opposed to animal based, as I had previously stated.

Also, a good link about the benefits of Coconut oil for Humans: Coconut Research Center Home Page

From there:

In traditional medicine around the world coconut is used to treat a wide variety of health problems including the following: abscesses, asthma, baldness, bronchitis, bruises, burns, colds, constipation, cough, dropsy, dysentery, earache, fever, flu, gingivitis, gonorrhea, irregular or painful menstruation, jaundice, kidney stones, lice, malnutrition, nausea, rash, scabies, scurvy, skin infections, sore throat, swelling, syphilis, toothache, tuberculosis, tumors, typhoid, ulcers, upset stomach, weakness, and wounds.

Coconut In Modern Medicine

Modern medical science is now confirming the use of coconut in treating many of the above conditions. Published studies in medical journals show that coconut, in one form or another, may provide a wide range of health benefits. Some of these are summarized below:

Kills viruses that cause influenza, herpes, measles, hepatitis C, SARS, AIDS, and other illnesses.

Kills bacteria that cause ulcers, throat infections, urinary tract infections, gum disease and cavities, pneumonia, and gonorrhea, and other diseases.

Kills fungi and yeasts that cause candidiasis, ringworm, athlete's foot, thrush, diaper rash, and other infections.

Expels or kills tapeworms, lice, giardia, and other parasites.

Provides a nutritional source of quick energy.

Boosts energy and endurance, enhancing physical and athletic performance.

Improves digestion and absorption of other nutrients including vitamins, minerals, and amino acids.

Improves insulin secretion and utilization of blood glucose.

Relieves stress on pancreas and enzyme systems of the body.

Reduces symptoms associated with pancreatitis.

Helps relieve symptoms and reduce health risks associated with diabetes.

Reduces problems associated with malabsorption syndrome and cystic fibrosis.

Improves calcium and magnesium absorption and supports the development of strong bones and teeth.

Helps protect against osteoporosis.

Helps relieve symptoms associated with gallbladder disease.

Relieves symptoms associated with Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and stomach ulcers.

Improves digestion and bowel function.

Relieves pain and irritation caused by hemorrhoids.

Reduces inflammation.

Supports tissue healing and repair.

Supports and aids immune system function.

Helps protect the body from breast, colon, and other cancers.

Is heart healthy; improves cholesterol ratio reducing risk of heart disease.

Protects arteries from injury that causes atherosclerosis and thus protects against heart disease.

Helps prevent periodontal disease and tooth decay.

Functions as a protective antioxidant.

Helps to protect the body from harmful free radicals that promote premature aging and degenerative disease.

Does not deplete the body's antioxidant reserves like other oils do.

Improves utilization of essential fatty acids and protects them from oxidation.

Helps relieve symptoms associated with chronic fatigue syndrome.

Relieves symptoms associated with benign prostatic hyperplasia (prostate enlargement).

Reduces epileptic seizures.

Helps protect against kidney disease and bladder infections.

Dissolves kidney stones.

Helps prevent liver disease.

Is lower in calories than all other fats.

Supports thyroid function.

Promotes loss of excess weight by increasing metabolic rate.

Is utilized by the body to produce energy in preference to being stored as body fat like other dietary fats.

Helps prevent obesity and overweight problems.

Applied topically helps to form a chemical barrier on the skin to ward of infection.

Reduces symptoms associated the psoriasis, eczema, and dermatitis.

Supports the natural chemical balance of the skin.

Softens skin and helps relieve dryness and flaking.

Prevents wrinkles, sagging skin, and age spots.

Promotes healthy looking hair and complexion.

Provides protection form damaging effects of ultraviolet radiation form the sun.

Helps control dandruff.

Does not form harmful by-products when heated to normal cooking temperature like other vegetable oils do.

Has no harmful or discomforting side effects.

Is completely non-toxic to humans.

[dwerten]

thanks Yeah i knew it was a medium chain fatty acid and why pancreatitis dogs can usually tolerate coconut oil but not willing to put it to the test with dex

Hey have you read any studies on the red blood cell count being increased with coconut oil as that is why i stopped it as someone on allergy group scared me about that sorry i stopped and will be starting dd back on it again- oh and dd had 4 blood panels done while on coconut oil and none showed increased red blood cells

[kjc]

Originally Posted by dwerten

thanks Yeah i knew it was a medium chain fatty acid and why pancreatitis dogs can usually tolerate coconut oil but not willing to put it to the test with dex

Hey have you read any studies on the red blood cell count being increased with coconut oil as that is why i stopped it as someone on allergy group scared me about that sorry i stopped and will be starting dd back on it again- oh and dd had 4 blood panels done while on coconut oil and none showed increased red blood cells

No I haven't seen anything on that yet.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by kjc

No I haven't seen anything on that yet.

i will pull it up from my allerdog group to have you check it out

lol it was a little over my head lol

[dwerten]

here it is

J Lipid Res. 1980 Nov;21(8):1082-9.
Red cell cholesterol enrichment and spur cell anemia in dogs fed a cholesterol-enriched atherogenic diet.
Cooper RA, Leslie MH, Knight D, Detweiler DK.
A diet supplemented with cholesterol and coconut oil is atherogenic in dogs. The purpose of the present study was to examine the effects of this diet on red cells in pure-bred beagles and greyhounds. Within 3 days after the initiation of this diet red cell cholesterol/phospholipid increased and membrane fluidity decreased, with maximum changes attained by 12 weeks. Serum lipoprotein cholesterol/phospholipid also increased, and serum from cholesterol-fed dogs transferred cholesterol to normal red cells. Significant abnormalities of liver function developed in all cholesterol-fed dogs. Hematocrit declined beginning at 6 weeks, with a parallel increase in osmotic fragility. Reticulocytes were elevated in beagles but normal in greyhounds. Red cell morphology resembled acanthocytes or spur cells. All red cell parameters returned to normal within 4 weeks after stopping the diet. These studies demonstrate that a cholestrol-enriched, atherogenic diet causes profound and reversible changes in the lipid composition, membrane fluidity, and morphology of red cells in dogs.

[107barney]

I have been giving Barney the Nordic Naturals Omega 3 supplement (1 capsule per day) with dinner. He is doing great on it. Barney got over the near death pancreatitis (caused from eating commercial dog food) in late March.

However, I will add one caveat. BARNEY DOES NOT EAT ANY COMMERCIAL DOG FOOD at this time. He eats a 3% fat home cooked diet and to that I am adding the omega-3.

The therapeutic dose for omega-3 for my particular dogs is one capsule every day (not every other day as the bottle had suggested).

I like fish oils better than coconut oil and we see a better overall clinical picture for our dogs with fish oils than with coconut.