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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   liver issues (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/205537-liver-issues.html)

Becca1 06-04-2010 09:27 AM
liver issues
 
My question is for anyone with Yorkies with liver issues - I've got my baby fairly well under control at the moment - her BAT #'s are still a bit high, but way better than they were - she's now on Science Diet L/D food, but was wondering if there is a chance she will improve, or will this be a lifelong battle? I was also wondering if there's good evidence that this milk thistle might improve her liver function? Any help at all would be appreciated.

Ellie May 06-04-2010 09:30 AM
Is it LS or MVD or both or unknown?

Supplements can help stop further damage and some improvement may be seen. Diet is also a big part of it. Dogs with MVD won't ever have totally normal numbers. All you can really do is support and all dogs respond differently to that. Some act like new dogs and others may not benefit much, esp. if their numbers were never bad to begin with and they are asymptomatic.

Becca1 06-04-2010 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3152132)
Is it LS or MVD or both or unknown?

Supplements can help stop further damage and some improvement may be seen. Diet is also a big part of it. Dogs with MVD won't ever have totally normal numbers. All you can really do is support and all dogs respond differently to that. Some act like new dogs and others may not benefit much, esp. if their numbers were never bad to begin with and they are asymptomatic.
I don't know - my vet didn't use those phrases; he just said liver disease (or hepatitis) - what is LS and MVD? She has done a lot better on the L/D dry, but as I said, she became bored with that, so have been adding L/D canned to the dry. She now has more good days than bad - I just wanted to know if there are add'l things I could be doing or adding as supplements to help her liver out.

Ellie May 06-04-2010 10:19 AM
SAMe and milk thistle may be good things to add. If neurological symptoms are present, then lactulose should be used.

However, it really depends on what is wrong and what the test results are showing. Generally Yorkies with liver disease have liver shunt or microvascular dysplasia (microscopic shunting throughout the liver). It's hard to say what the best protocol is without a diagnosis, bile acids test numbers, etc. Your vet should have this info.

Becca1 06-04-2010 10:26 AM
Thank you - luckily no neurlogical issues - I will check on the SAMe and milk thistle - vet said it wasn't a shunt. Thank you again.

Ringo1 06-04-2010 10:39 AM
If it is not a shunt; probably MVD. I feel like I am always walking a fine line . . trying to find food that she can eat; that she WILL eat; that won't upset the delicate balance between the right amount of protein vs protein overload; making sure she drinks water; finding the right treats that will not overwork her liver . . .

I'm still struggling with it all.

It's certainly not like my Westie . . where you just put down a food bowl and walk away!

Of course, it took some trial and error to find his perfect food too.

Becca1 06-04-2010 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 (Post 3152210)
If it is not a shunt; probably MVD. I feel like I am always walking a fine line . . trying to find food that she can eat; that she WILL eat; that won't upset the delicate balance between the right amount of protein vs protein overload; making sure she drinks water; finding the right treats that will not overwork her liver . . .

I'm still struggling with it all.

It's certainly not like my Westie . . where you just put down a food bowl and walk away!

Of course, it took some trial and error to find his perfect food too.
You are so right on the fine line - if we didn't care so much, it probably wouldn't be so hard. I had two previous Yorkies that lived well into their teens, with no health issues - I guess I was just very lucky. They lived on Purina ProPlan their entire lives and with no change in diet - boy, I didn't know how lucky I was :). With Lexie I am constantly monitoring what she eats and drinks. That's why I thought I'd try some supplements that might keep her liver function improving.

Ringo1 06-04-2010 01:14 PM
I tried the milk thistle; I could not see that it did any good; but she didn't seem to mind it either.

You are right; you were very lucky! I hope you will be able to find that perfect food for your baby.

Robin Lodal 06-04-2010 02:11 PM
You can get Detri-DMG chews from entirelypets.com that have milk thistle, SamE, along with a few other supplements that are good for liver compromised babies. My Ginger loves it and takes it as a treat every day. She eats Royal Canin LS 14 (dry) and will occassionally get the canned LD as a treat.

kjc 06-04-2010 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becca1 (Post 3152127)
My question is for anyone with Yorkies with liver issues - I've got my baby fairly well under control at the moment - her BAT #'s are still a bit high, but way better than they were - she's now on Science Diet L/D food, but was wondering if there is a chance she will improve, or will this be a lifelong battle? I was also wondering if there's good evidence that this milk thistle might improve her liver function? Any help at all would be appreciated.
With MVD, it will be lifelong. The liver works to a good extent, but because it grew differently, it is impossible for it to function at the same level as a normal liver. In most dogs with MVD, dietary management is all that is needed to manage the condition.

The liver can and does regenerate itself, to an extent. Systemically, episodes may occur that could cause liver cells to die off for whatever reason.
Supplements containing milk thistle and SAM-E help the cells to rejuvenate and can protect the liver cells and prevent liver cell death.

My dog is on Denamarin. there are other products available, either from your vet or health store. I can't see a difference in her, but it's a win win situation.
I know that here liver is being protected, and the product won't hurt her if she doesn't need it.

My cousin has liver problems and she laughed, her doc told her to take the same supplements.

Robin Lodal 06-04-2010 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjc (Post 3152469)
With MVD, it will be lifelong. The liver works to a good extent, but because it grew differently, it is impossible for it to function at the same level as a normal liver. In most dogs with MVD, dietary management is all that is needed to manage the condition.

The liver can and does regenerate itself, to an extent. Systemically, episodes may occur that could cause liver cells to die off for whatever reason.
Supplements containing milk thistle and SAM-E help the cells to rejuvenate and can protect the liver cells and prevent liver cell death.

My dog is on Denamarin. there are other products available, either from your vet or health store. I can't see a difference in her, but it's a win win situation.
I know that here liver is being protected, and the product won't hurt her if she doesn't need it.

My cousin has liver problems and she laughed, her doc told her to take the same supplements.
The liver chews I mentioned replace Denamarin. I hated giving the pills to my lil one - the chews are great!

Becca1 06-05-2010 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjc (Post 3152469)
With MVD, it will be lifelong. The liver works to a good extent, but because it grew differently, it is impossible for it to function at the same level as a normal liver. In most dogs with MVD, dietary management is all that is needed to manage the condition.

The liver can and does regenerate itself, to an extent. Systemically, episodes may occur that could cause liver cells to die off for whatever reason.
Supplements containing milk thistle and SAM-E help the cells to rejuvenate and can protect the liver cells and prevent liver cell death.

My dog is on Denamarin. there are other products available, either from your vet or health store. I can't see a difference in her, but it's a win win situation.
I know that here liver is being protected, and the product won't hurt her if she doesn't need it.

My cousin has liver problems and she laughed, her doc told her to take the same supplements.
Thanks for the suggestions - I will try and Milk thistle and SamE and at least I'll know it won't hurt her and may help.

Becca1 06-05-2010 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Lodal (Post 3152406)
You can get Detri-DMG chews from entirelypets.com that have milk thistle, SamE, along with a few other supplements that are good for liver compromised babies. My Ginger loves it and takes it as a treat every day. She eats Royal Canin LS 14 (dry) and will occassionally get the canned LD as a treat.

Thanks for the website - I will check it out for the chews, milk thistle and SamE. :)

Ringo1 06-05-2010 01:36 PM
I think I'm going to try those chews as well.

lilygirl24 06-05-2010 07:16 PM
Good luck
 
I wish I had joined sooner and found out about the chew and supplements. My baby Lily was recovering from a liver shunt surgery and quite well. Shes a strong little girl but last night her liver failed. I'm not sure why and the vet is trying to get to the bottom of it. I'm crushed and heartbroken. I wish you all the best with your baby. All I can suggest is don't be afraid to get a second opinion. I would never have done the surgery if i had know there was something wrong with her liver too and I think that was the case. I think the doctors missed it because they didn't do a liver biopsy first. I will pray for your little one.


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