davinci might have AAI i am so scared, someone please help us. - Page 9 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

red98vett · 04-17-2010, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Yen, you were such a super mom to your pups. We just have to look at the many threads you posted asking about what the absolute best food for dogs was. Of course there are many other things too that showed how dedicated you were.

You did the best you could. Someone told me this once, and maybe it will help you too (if not, feel free to ignore!): guilt can be a way of holding on to the past. Replaying the "what ifs" hurts, but it also the mind's way of shielding itself from the tragedy, which can feel too painful to fully acknowledge.

I do hope you can learn what you need to to give you some peace. DaVinci will be missed terribly.

This is so true - and again - you have my condolences...I can see you're feeling so lost

dwerten · 04-17-2010, 04:33 AM

here are xrays of c1-c2 on youtube

YouTube - Jitterbug's Sad Story continued...

there are other pups on there with this so just put a search in for

atlantoaxial instability

Ringo1 · 04-17-2010, 04:37 AM

About guilt - it's been my experience that guilt seems to accompany any death of a loved one. Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, Beloved Pet - no matter how much you have done - still the guilt comes. I hope that with time, you will come to realize that you have nothing to feel guilty for. Sometimes, things happen that we cannot control. That's a hard realization too.

As you continue with your healing journey, you will realize that guilt has no role to play here.

Be well and be very kind to yourself at this difficult time.

kjc · 04-17-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo1

About guilt - it's been my experience that guilt seems to accompany any death of a loved one. Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, Beloved Pet - no matter how much you have done - still the guilt comes. I hope that with time, you will come to realize that you have nothing to feel guilty for. Sometimes, things happen that we cannot control. That's a hard realization too.

As you continue with your healing journey, you will realize that guilt has no role to play here.

Be well and be very kind to yourself at this difficult time.

Very well said...

yorkiepuppie · 04-17-2010, 06:54 PM

i asked the vet to write a report for me and this is the info. i received.

RE: Cause of Death

The only clinical symptom preceding death was pain that seemed to originate from the cervical area. Presumptive cause of death is spinal cord compression. Due to the clinical signs of neck pain followed by peracute death, and radiological evidence of possible occipital dysplasia and malpositioning of C1 / Atlas, this cause seems probable. The radiographic images were also suggestive of hydrocephalus. Occipital dysplasia and spinal cord compression cannot be definitively diagnosed without MRI examination.

Ladymom · 04-17-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

i asked the vet to write a report for me and this is the info. i received.

RE: Cause of Death

The only clinical symptom preceding death was pain that seemed to originate from the cervical area. Presumptive cause of death is spinal cord compression. Due to the clinical signs of neck pain followed by peracute death, and radiological evidence of possible occipital dysplasia and malpositioning of C1 / Atlas, this cause seems probable. The radiographic images were also suggestive of hydrocephalus. Occipital dysplasia and spinal cord compression cannot be definitively diagnosed without MRI examination.

Have you been able to speak to Davinci's breeder? Perhaps she can help you get tests through her vet to give you the answers you are so desperate for.

My heart breaks for you, Yen. I pray you can find peace.

capt_noonie · 04-17-2010, 10:08 PM

Yen, again, I'm so sorry for your loss. I think it is reasonable to understand this was the cause of Davinci's death. Have you talked to your breeder to let her know what happened?

My thoughts are with you.

dwerten · 04-18-2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

i asked the vet to write a report for me and this is the info. i received.

RE: Cause of Death

The only clinical symptom preceding death was pain that seemed to originate from the cervical area. Presumptive cause of death is spinal cord compression. Due to the clinical signs of neck pain followed by peracute death, and radiological evidence of possible occipital dysplasia and malpositioning of C1 / Atlas, this cause seems probable. The radiographic images were also suggestive of hydrocephalus. Occipital dysplasia and spinal cord compression cannot be definitively diagnosed without MRI examination.

yen this is all AAI related - AAI is in the C1-C2 area, it can cause the hydrocephalus on the brain when affected and the occipital dysplasia is in relation to the the skull being affected and why when you google occipital dysplasia chiari comes up - when the neck is affected it affects the spinal chord which causes swelling on the brain

The treatment would have been heavy duty steroids and bracing the neck immediately - check out bleu boy's story - I can try to find by googl

dwerten · 04-18-2010, 08:41 AM

more info

ACVS - Atlantoaxial Instability

I think the fact that you did not describe any seizure activity it affected his diaphragm and stopped breathing and why they could not revive him when you got there. Did you see any seizures? My friends dog had a massive seizure and they could not stop the seizure activity at the specialty hospital emergency with any amount of drugs so she had to put her down. It sounds like davinci did not have that from what you describe but sounds like he stopped breathing from what i read.

dwerten · 04-18-2010, 08:58 AM

here is the thread with responses from vicki and val regarding all this - have you talked to vicki, val or jaimie as those three know alot about this as well as tami and give you alot of insight to it. The one thing i read is vets are not familiar with it if they have never treated it in a pup so may be why your vet is not labeling it AAI but he is saying C1 which is AAI as it happens in the C1-C2 area

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...mic-shunt.html

LilMissy · 04-18-2010, 01:04 PM

I haven't been online much lately, but I was just thinking about you and wanted to stop in and give you more (((hugs)))

Wylie's Mom · 04-18-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwerten

more info

ACVS - Atlantoaxial Instability

I think the fact that you did not describe any seizure activity it affected his diaphragm and stopped breathing and why they could not revive him when you got there. Did you see any seizures? My friends dog had a massive seizure and they could not stop the seizure activity at the specialty hospital emergency with any amount of drugs so she had to put her down. It sounds like davinci did not have that from what you describe but sounds like he stopped breathing from what i read.

I probably shouldn't "speak" for Yen...but I'll mention a couple things for her, since I'm unsure how much she is able to post about DaVinci (emotionally).

I don't recall Yen mentioning anything that seemed seizure-like. I don't want to share details that Yen hasn't shared here herself - but I can say they tried to save DaVinci, using all of the possible emergency measures as soon as they arrived at the vet, but it was too late for this sweet baby.

jp4m2 · 04-19-2010, 06:13 AM

Yen, I'm just now seeing your post ......I'm so, so, sorry for the sudden and unexpected loss of your DaVinci.......

I know all too well the overwhelming grief and guilt that can come from a loss such as this. I sometimes wonder, if we had had time to prepare, to be able to say goodbye,would it have helped?

The tremendous grief can be compounded by the nagging guilt of wondering if we did the right things.....Please try and remember that not everything is always in our control. We might like to think it is... we hope that it is....but there are times when it simply isn't. Rarely can we say, "no one was at fault; it simply happened." Rarely can we accept that nothing could have been changed or done differently.... Please know that you are not alone.....

The pain in your heart is completely understandable......When you
love that intensely, it is almost impossible not to feel it.......With time you don't get over it, you just get through it, it doesn't 'get better', it just gets different...... My thought are with you.....RIP DaVinci.......

yorkiepuppie · 04-19-2010, 01:35 PM

on wednesday morning, i had to place davinci in the crate. he was in pain, and as i was still trying to figure out how to get him help that day. he started crying and running backwards really fast in his crate. i was afraid that he would hurt himself in there running so crazy in the crate i opened the crate door, and he ran out and ran backwards in circles really fast, i tried to catch him, i was so scared. i kept calling his name, finally i caught him and he collapsed. i put him in the crate and rushed to the vet.

on the drive to the vet, i was driving as fast as i could running red lights. i kept screaming and crying and telling davinci to please hold on. i knew he was dying, i didn't know what to do, i wanted to stop the car and give him CPR, but i don't know how to do CPR, and i wanted to get him to the vet asap to get help.

i got to the vet's office, ran in there with davinci's limp body, screamed at the vet to please help him. the vet immediately took davinci from me and ran to the back. i sat there waiting, crying hysterically, i can hear the machines going in the back room, but i knew davinci was gone. then i heard his little bell, and i stopped crying, and kept listening, i thought maybe they saved him. but after a while, the vet came out with the vet tech to tell me that davinci was gone and they couldn't revive him.

they took x-rays of davinci and the vet had to go to a conference that day, and told me that he would have the specialist at the conference take a look at the x-rays. i called to schedule another appt. with the vet that afternoon, i wanted to find out what happened to davinci.

the vet showed me the x-rays and explained to me what he was told by the specialist at the conference. i was overwhelmed and wanted to know if we are sure that was the exact cause of death. the vet could not give me a definite 100% answer, but told me that if his pet died, he would except this as the cause of death. he told me that the only way to find out is if we performed MRI.

i asked him if davinci was already gone when i rushed him in, and he told me yes. i had suspected that davinci was already gone, because when the vet ran to the back room with davinci, i can hear a few words being exchanged between the vet and the technician. i couldn't hear what they were saying. but by the tone of the few words exchanged, i knew they were saying that davinci was already gone. but they still started the machines, put a tube down davinci's throat, pumped his heart and gave him epinephrine. (this really means a lot to me that they still tried even though they knew he was gone)

the next day, the vet called me again, to let me know that they have called around to see if anyone can perform an MRI on davinci, everyone told them no. nobody would perform MRI. i pressed again for the vet to tell me how certain we are about the cause of death. and the vet said there is no way to be 100% certain.

on friday, i went to the clinic wanting to find out more and wanting to get out of the house because milu was sniffing davinci's toys and breaking my heart. i learned that the vet had called and researched and tried really hard to find me a concrete answer because he knew that's what i wanted and that it would make me feel better, but he was unable to get me a concrete answer. but his effort meant a lot to me. he is a younger vet, not my regular vet as my regular vet was on vacation when this all happened.

i still cannot fully believe that davinci is gone. but i have accepted that i cannot be 100% certain what happened to davinci, and i am ok with knowing most likely what the probable cause was.

I wasn't responding to this thread a lot, but i was reading what people were writing, it made me cry everytime i read it, but it also made me feel better. even though in a way i did not want to feel better, i had wanted to feel guilt maybe, i am not sure, just that i was responsible for davinci, and he is dead, i have failed, and i should be punished.

it's still hard for me to think about baby davinci, i miss him very much. i cannot wait till the day when i can just remember his sweetness without so much pain.

davinci was only a puppy, he would had turned 21 weeks old on the day he passed. even though we've only had him for about 8 weeks, it feels like he's always been part of the family.

Ringo1 · 04-19-2010, 03:49 PM

You have taken a giant step toward healing by accepting the fact that no one can be 100% sure what happened to your little boy; though they are pretty sure they know.

I'd say that's real progress for now. Time is merciful.

You are not a failure. You are not a bad Mom. This was something beyond your control. You did all that you could by rushing him to the Vet. Exactly what I would have done in the same situation.

Be as kind to yourself as you would to someone else facing the situation you were in. Would you blame them? Think them a bad person? I don't think so. Grant yourself the same kindness you would a total stranger.

Peace be with you and well done on accepting the answers the Vet has given you with the information he has. It sounds like he has made a real effort to help you search for understanding.

04-17-2010, 06:54 PM	#125
yorkiepuppie Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Jose, CA, USA Posts: 2,883	report from the vet i asked the vet to write a report for me and this is the info. i received. RE: Cause of Death The only clinical symptom preceding death was pain that seemed to originate from the cervical area. Presumptive cause of death is spinal cord compression. Due to the clinical signs of neck pain followed by peracute death, and radiological evidence of possible occipital dysplasia and malpositioning of C1 / Atlas, this cause seems probable. The radiographic images were also suggestive of hydrocephalus. Occipital dysplasia and spinal cord compression cannot be definitively diagnosed without MRI examination. __________________ www.yenspiration.com i love milu

04-17-2010, 10:08 PM	#127
capt_noonie www.yorkierescue.com Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Las Vegas & Orange County Posts: 17,408	Yen, again, I'm so sorry for your loss. I think it is reasonable to understand this was the cause of Davinci's death. Have you talked to your breeder to let her know what happened? My thoughts are with you. __________________ The T.U.B. Pack! Toto, Uni, & Bindi RIP Lord Scrappington Montgomery McLimpybottom aka El Lenguo the Handicapped Ninja 10-12-12

04-18-2010, 08:41 AM	#129
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	more info ACVS - Atlantoaxial Instability I think the fact that you did not describe any seizure activity it affected his diaphragm and stopped breathing and why they could not revive him when you got there. Did you see any seizures? My friends dog had a massive seizure and they could not stop the seizure activity at the specialty hospital emergency with any amount of drugs so she had to put her down. It sounds like davinci did not have that from what you describe but sounds like he stopped breathing from what i read. Last edited by dwerten; 04-18-2010 at 08:45 AM.

04-18-2010, 01:04 PM	#131
LilMissy Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 3,421	I haven't been online much lately, but I was just thinking about you and wanted to stop in and give you more (((hugs))) __________________ Shaunna with Missy (my princess) & Dora (my tomboy)

04-19-2010, 06:13 AM	#133
jp4m2 Love my Boys Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: w/ my boys Posts: 5,056	Yen, I'm just now seeing your post ......I'm so, so, sorry for the sudden and unexpected loss of your DaVinci....... I know all too well the overwhelming grief and guilt that can come from a loss such as this. I sometimes wonder, if we had had time to prepare, to be able to say goodbye,would it have helped? The tremendous grief can be compounded by the nagging guilt of wondering if we did the right things.....Please try and remember that not everything is always in our control. We might like to think it is... we hope that it is....but there are times when it simply isn't. Rarely can we say, "no one was at fault; it simply happened." Rarely can we accept that nothing could have been changed or done differently.... Please know that you are not alone..... The pain in your heart is completely understandable......When you love that intensely, it is almost impossible not to feel it.......With time you don't get over it, you just get through it, it doesn't 'get better', it just gets different...... My thought are with you.....RIP DaVinci....... __________________ B.J.mom to : Jake J.J. Jack & Joey, momma misses you..... The joy found in the companionship of a pet is a blessing not given to everyone. The two most powerful words when we’re in struggle: me too..

04-17-2010, 04:37 AM	#123
Ringo1 Ringo (1) and Lucy too! Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: On the Edge of Glory Posts: 3,447	About guilt - it's been my experience that guilt seems to accompany any death of a loved one. Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, Beloved Pet - no matter how much you have done - still the guilt comes. I hope that with time, you will come to realize that you have nothing to feel guilty for. Sometimes, things happen that we cannot control. That's a hard realization too. As you continue with your healing journey, you will realize that guilt has no role to play here. Be well and be very kind to yourself at this difficult time.

04-18-2010, 08:58 AM	#130
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	here is the thread with responses from vicki and val regarding all this - have you talked to vicki, val or jaimie as those three know alot about this as well as tami and give you alot of insight to it. The one thing i read is vets are not familiar with it if they have never treated it in a pup so may be why your vet is not labeling it AAI but he is saying C1 which is AAI as it happens in the C1-C2 area http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...mic-shunt.html

04-19-2010, 01:35 PM	#134
yorkiepuppie Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Jose, CA, USA Posts: 2,883	on wednesday morning, i had to place davinci in the crate. he was in pain, and as i was still trying to figure out how to get him help that day. he started crying and running backwards really fast in his crate. i was afraid that he would hurt himself in there running so crazy in the crate i opened the crate door, and he ran out and ran backwards in circles really fast, i tried to catch him, i was so scared. i kept calling his name, finally i caught him and he collapsed. i put him in the crate and rushed to the vet. on the drive to the vet, i was driving as fast as i could running red lights. i kept screaming and crying and telling davinci to please hold on. i knew he was dying, i didn't know what to do, i wanted to stop the car and give him CPR, but i don't know how to do CPR, and i wanted to get him to the vet asap to get help. i got to the vet's office, ran in there with davinci's limp body, screamed at the vet to please help him. the vet immediately took davinci from me and ran to the back. i sat there waiting, crying hysterically, i can hear the machines going in the back room, but i knew davinci was gone. then i heard his little bell, and i stopped crying, and kept listening, i thought maybe they saved him. but after a while, the vet came out with the vet tech to tell me that davinci was gone and they couldn't revive him. they took x-rays of davinci and the vet had to go to a conference that day, and told me that he would have the specialist at the conference take a look at the x-rays. i called to schedule another appt. with the vet that afternoon, i wanted to find out what happened to davinci. the vet showed me the x-rays and explained to me what he was told by the specialist at the conference. i was overwhelmed and wanted to know if we are sure that was the exact cause of death. the vet could not give me a definite 100% answer, but told me that if his pet died, he would except this as the cause of death. he told me that the only way to find out is if we performed MRI. i asked him if davinci was already gone when i rushed him in, and he told me yes. i had suspected that davinci was already gone, because when the vet ran to the back room with davinci, i can hear a few words being exchanged between the vet and the technician. i couldn't hear what they were saying. but by the tone of the few words exchanged, i knew they were saying that davinci was already gone. but they still started the machines, put a tube down davinci's throat, pumped his heart and gave him epinephrine. (this really means a lot to me that they still tried even though they knew he was gone) the next day, the vet called me again, to let me know that they have called around to see if anyone can perform an MRI on davinci, everyone told them no. nobody would perform MRI. i pressed again for the vet to tell me how certain we are about the cause of death. and the vet said there is no way to be 100% certain. on friday, i went to the clinic wanting to find out more and wanting to get out of the house because milu was sniffing davinci's toys and breaking my heart. i learned that the vet had called and researched and tried really hard to find me a concrete answer because he knew that's what i wanted and that it would make me feel better, but he was unable to get me a concrete answer. but his effort meant a lot to me. he is a younger vet, not my regular vet as my regular vet was on vacation when this all happened. i still cannot fully believe that davinci is gone. but i have accepted that i cannot be 100% certain what happened to davinci, and i am ok with knowing most likely what the probable cause was. I wasn't responding to this thread a lot, but i was reading what people were writing, it made me cry everytime i read it, but it also made me feel better. even though in a way i did not want to feel better, i had wanted to feel guilt maybe, i am not sure, just that i was responsible for davinci, and he is dead, i have failed, and i should be punished. it's still hard for me to think about baby davinci, i miss him very much. i cannot wait till the day when i can just remember his sweetness without so much pain. davinci was only a puppy, he would had turned 21 weeks old on the day he passed. even though we've only had him for about 8 weeks, it feels like he's always been part of the family. __________________ www.yenspiration.com i love milu

04-19-2010, 03:49 PM	#135
Ringo1 Ringo (1) and Lucy too! Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: On the Edge of Glory Posts: 3,447	You have taken a giant step toward healing by accepting the fact that no one can be 100% sure what happened to your little boy; though they are pretty sure they know. I'd say that's real progress for now. Time is merciful. You are not a failure. You are not a bad Mom. This was something beyond your control. You did all that you could by rushing him to the Vet. Exactly what I would have done in the same situation. Be as kind to yourself as you would to someone else facing the situation you were in. Would you blame them? Think them a bad person? I don't think so. Grant yourself the same kindness you would a total stranger. Peace be with you and well done on accepting the answers the Vet has given you with the information he has. It sounds like he has made a real effort to help you search for understanding.