davinci might have AAI i am so scared, someone please help us.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Once a loved one has passed on an ER/Sick thread, we will physically remove any posts that may be (unintentionally) hurtful for the OP to read. This is one type of thread where we will physically remove posts, rather than delete them normally.

Yes, Yen wants some help and answers, but it needs to be done sensitively. Please don't make assumptions as to what she was doing behind the scenes in trying to get answers and help for DaVinci. Now that he is gone, she is trying to get information on what he died from, so that she can intellectually understand that part of it -- she will need the facts to put that part of this great loss to rest.

The emotional part of it doesn't have words to suffice.

Thank you, Ann.

[cathys]

I'm sorry for the loss of your baby. I hope you find some peace soon. I will keep you in my prayers.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Once a loved one has passed on an ER/Sick thread, we will physically remove any posts that may be (unintentionally) hurtful for the OP to read. This is one type of thread where we will physically remove posts, rather than delete them normally.

Yes, Yen wants some help and answers, but it needs to be done sensitively. Please don't make assumptions as to what she was doing behind the scenes in trying to get answers and help for DaVinci. Now that he is gone, she is trying to get information on what he died from, so that she can intellectually understand that part of it -- she will need the facts to put that part of this great loss to rest.

The emotional part of it doesn't have words to suffice.

thanks for explaining this as i do not like to spend alot of time researching and looking up info and posting links to find they have been removed as it takes alot of time and work to do this and i was posting info to help her understand what happened - all of us have careers and families and we come here to help others and some of us including myself are very passionate about it having dealt with sick animals and why we are so helpful.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by dwerten

thanks for explaining this as i do not like to spend alot of time researching and looking up info and posting links to find they have been removed as it takes alot of time and work to do this and i was posting info to help her understand what happened - all of us have careers and families and we come here to help others and some of us including myself are very passionate about it having dealt with sick animals and why we are so helpful.

Links and info are helpful.

But any accompanying commentary, now that DaVinci has passed, needs to be given with great care.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Links and info are helpful.

But any accompanying commentary, now that DaVinci has passed, needs to be given with great care.

understand thanks I hope she can find the answers so she can be at peace as sometimes we go through things to help others in life and this may be one of those times as many of us have had it happen to us and understand and know how hard it is

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Links and info are helpful.

But any accompanying commentary, now that DaVinci has passed, needs to be given with great care.

Thank you for being aware of DaVinci's mom emotional needs.

[yorkiepuppie]

thank you for helping me look for the information. i haven't been able to find too much info. on this. i would like to know more and understand.

thank you for protecting me from unintentional things that were said that might be hurtful. i just can't handle that right now. i don't know how i can ever forgive myself if i could have done something to prevent this from happening.

i kept asking the vet if this was something that i've done to cause. he just keeps telling me that there was no way we could have known until this happened... (this meaning davinci's death)

perhaps i should have gotten the x-ray when we saw the vet on tuesday. but i had no idea at all how serious a neck pain was, and was concerned about putting his life in danger by sedating him since the vet told me he thinks it was a strained muscle, but the vet did tell me he didn't know what was wrong with davinci. i don't think the vet knew how serious it was either. he told me we can always wait till thursday to get an x-ray if davinci was not better by then.

it is very hard without davinci, i miss him very much and i wish i knew more than i did and made better choices for him. i had no idea, davinci was playing everyday since he first showed signs of problems on sunday up until wednesday morning when he passed away, and right now that is my only comfort, knowing that he wasn't suffering the whole time when i did nothing helpful to get him better.

the morning he passed away, he could not move, and i didn't want him to move at all, but he wagged his tail every time i was near. i wish i didn't have to crate him, i wish i had him in my arms that whole time.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

thank you for helping me look for the information. i haven't been able to find too much info. on this. i would like to know more and understand.

thank you for protecting me from unintentional things that were said that might be hurtful. i just can't handle that right now. i don't know how i can ever forgive myself if i could have done something to prevent this from happening.

i kept asking the vet if this was something that i've done to cause. he just keeps telling me that there was no way we could have known until this happened... (this meaning davinci's death)

perhaps i should have gotten the x-ray when we saw the vet on tuesday. but i had no idea at all how serious a neck pain was, and was concerned about putting his life in danger by sedating him since the vet told me he thinks it was a strained muscle, but the vet did tell me he didn't know what was wrong with davinci. i don't think the vet knew how serious it was either. he told me we can always wait till thursday to get an x-ray if davinci was not better by then.

it is very hard without davinci, i miss him very much and i wish i knew more than i did and made better choices for him. i had no idea, davinci was playing everyday since he first showed signs of problems on sunday up until wednesday morning when he passed away, and right now that is my only comfort, knowing that he wasn't suffering the whole time when i did nothing helpful to get him better.

the morning he passed away, he could not move, and i didn't want him to move at all, but he wagged his tail every time i was near. i wish i didn't have to crate him, i wish i had him in my arms that whole time.

Oh, sweetie. My heart is breaking for you. Sometime, there just isn't any way for us to know how bad things are with our pups - they can't tell us what's wrong. You loved him, protected him and did what you felt was best for him. He knew that!! And he loved you, too. You made his life happy. Thank you for that. {hugs}

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

thank you for helping me look for the information. i haven't been able to find too much info. on this. i would like to know more and understand.

thank you for protecting me from unintentional things that were said that might be hurtful. i just can't handle that right now. i don't know how i can ever forgive myself if i could have done something to prevent this from happening.

i kept asking the vet if this was something that i've done to cause. he just keeps telling me that there was no way we could have known until this happened... (this meaning davinci's death)

perhaps i should have gotten the x-ray when we saw the vet on tuesday. but i had no idea at all how serious a neck pain was, and was concerned about putting his life in danger by sedating him since the vet told me he thinks it was a strained muscle, but the vet did tell me he didn't know what was wrong with davinci. i don't think the vet knew how serious it was either. he told me we can always wait till thursday to get an x-ray if davinci was not better by then.

it is very hard without davinci, i miss him very much and i wish i knew more than i did and made better choices for him. i had no idea, davinci was playing everyday since he first showed signs of problems on sunday up until wednesday morning when he passed away, and right now that is my only comfort, knowing that he wasn't suffering the whole time when i did nothing helpful to get him better.

the morning he passed away, he could not move, and i didn't want him to move at all, but he wagged his tail every time i was near. i wish i didn't have to crate him, i wish i had him in my arms that whole time.

don't beat yourself up as i had no clue about pancreatitis nor these groups when dex almost died of pancreatitis and why now i spend so much time researching, reading, and trying to help others. You trusted your vet that it would be ok until thursday why you gathered more info as i trusted mine until it got real severe then i learned what an internal specialist was on my own sadly. Had no clue before. The only reason i know neck is bad in maltese and yorkie breed is because a few of my friends have been through it now and have read their stories and talked to them on the phone Sorry i was not there that day for you

I have another link i will post that is missing it has more info

Hang in there

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

thank you for helping me look for the information. i haven't been able to find too much info. on this. i would like to know more and understand.

thank you for protecting me from unintentional things that were said that might be hurtful. i just can't handle that right now. i don't know how i can ever forgive myself if i could have done something to prevent this from happening.

i kept asking the vet if this was something that i've done to cause. he just keeps telling me that there was no way we could have known until this happened... (this meaning davinci's death)

perhaps i should have gotten the x-ray when we saw the vet on tuesday. but i had no idea at all how serious a neck pain was, and was concerned about putting his life in danger by sedating him since the vet told me he thinks it was a strained muscle, but the vet did tell me he didn't know what was wrong with davinci. i don't think the vet knew how serious it was either. he told me we can always wait till thursday to get an x-ray if davinci was not better by then.

it is very hard without davinci, i miss him very much and i wish i knew more than i did and made better choices for him. i had no idea, davinci was playing everyday since he first showed signs of problems on sunday up until wednesday morning when he passed away, and right now that is my only comfort, knowing that he wasn't suffering the whole time when i did nothing helpful to get him better.

the morning he passed away, he could not move, and i didn't want him to move at all, but he wagged his tail every time i was near. i wish i didn't have to crate him, i wish i had him in my arms that whole time.

Oh, Yen, I wish I could take away your pain. My heart breaks for you.

Please try not to go back and second guess yourself. It sounds like the vet is 90% certain of Davinci's cause of death and that it was unpreventable. Both you and your vet did everything right. In most cases pain is something simple, a little strain as your vet suggested, not a life threatening congenital deformity.

Have you spoken with Davinci's breeder? She might have some insight or recommendations for you. I know you really liked her.

Such a horrible tragedy. I pray you will find peace.

[Ellie May]

Hey sweetie,

I really don't have the answers that you need, but how would you feel about getting a copy of his xray and taking it to a vet that neither your vets have contact with? Perhaps with somebody else reading it, you won't feel like they are trying to protect themselves.

[Woogie Man]

My heart aches for you and for DaVinci. What happened is tragic beyond words. Please don't beat yourself up with the what-ifs. It's obvious from this and other threads that you loved him very much. He knew that, too, and showed that even to the end. That love is forever and is a blessing for the both of you. I hope you find some comfort in that and know that his little tail is still wagging....just waiting for you to join him on Rainbow Bridge.

[dwerten]

here is more info still trying to find the really good site

http://igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/...01201/sec3.pdf

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Hey sweetie,

I really don't have the answers that you need, but how would you feel about getting a copy of his xray and taking it to a vet that neither your vets have contact with? Perhaps with somebody else reading it, you won't feel like they are trying to protect themselves.

good idea - i bet you could take it to ucdavis and have it reviewed as well there is a woman neurologist there i posted on the thread with bella - I will try to find later and pm you and she is friends with our dentist as he use to work there with her and recommended her for another dog. I will pm you

[kjc]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

thank you everybody, your kind words mean a lot to me. thank you.

this is very hard for me, i miss davinci so much, and i also really want to know what happened to him.

i met with the vet on Wednesday afternoon, he showed me the x-rays and explained to me what he believes to be the cause of davinci's death. i was really overwhelmed and i am not sure i completely understand, so i asked him to please write some stuff down for me so i can research and try to understand.

this is what he wrote down for me:

Occipital dysplasia
hydrocephalus
C1/Atlas malpositioned

Occipital bone is part of the skull
the joint between the occipital bone and the atlas (also called C1) was improperly positioned.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
so basically i was told that the cause of death was Occipital dysplasia, i asked him to tell me how certain we are that this was the cause of death, i asked him to please tell me a percentage. are we 90% sure, are we 100%, but he will not tell me, he just says that if this was his pet he would accept this as the prognosis.

i still don't understand, please help me understand.

he said davinci would need an MRI if we wanted to be more sure of the exact cause of death. but then he called UC Davis and UC Davis told him that they would not perform MRI on pets they did not treat.

Can they look at X-ray and see what the cause of death was? this was not my regular vet, my regular vet will be back on monday. this vet is younger, he went to a conference and took the x-rays of davinci with him for a specialist to look at it. and what he told me was what the specialist told him basically. i asked him to please ask the radiologist to write a report.

they still have davinci's body... i don't know what to do at this point. do you have any advice for me. does anyone know anything about occipital dysplasia and how we can find out if that was the cause of death?

on wednesday when the vet talked to me, he told me that it was pretty definite that was the cause of death, but the following day, he seems to be saying that scientifically we cant be sure, i am wondering if he is concerned about potential law suit or something to be modifying what he had told me. i am just a sad mother who would like to know what happened to my baby boy.

You have my most heartfelt sympathies for the loss of your sweet DaVinci.

I will attempt to explain:

Occipital dysplasia: Is basicly a hole in the skull, is very common in round-headed toy breeds. A small hole may go unnoticed, but a larger hole will be uncomfortable as the brain cannot shift without interference. One symptom is that the dog will lower it's front end, and walk backwards, possibly seeking some kind of relief.

hydrocephalus: This is a neurological disease in which there is excessive accumulation of cerebrospinal fluid, the malfunction of drainage system of the brain responsible for evacuating the cerebrospinal fluid from the brain into the circulatory system. When this occurs with Occipital dysplasia, the brain cannot shift to accommodate the excess fluid build-up, causing, pressure, pain, and seizures.


C1/Atlas malpositioned: unlike other vertebrae, which interlock one to the next, the Atlas (also known as C-1) relies solely upon soft tissue (muscles and ligaments) to maintain alignment; therefore is uniquely vulnerable to displacement. Displacement of C-1 can occur without pain and thus, often goes undetected and untreated. It can be congenital or acquired.

From your description of events in both threads, I believe DaVinci was experiencing some kind of pressure from the excess fluid build-up and/or the Atlas malposition when your DH picked him up, hence his struggle to be put down. There can also be a congenital defect between the Atlas (last vertebra, top of the spine) and the Dens (place the two meet and fit together. If the dens was congenitally malformed, DaVinci would be predisposed to this disaster occuring at any point in his life, from any reason ie: turning his head to the side quickly could cause it, or shaking his head too.

I hope this helps. Also, I would like to add that getting an xray would more than likely have caused more damage. Many don't survive just the xray as positioning is critical and it doesn't take much of a slip to be catastrophic. Treatment involves emergency neuro surgery to shunt the cerebrospinal fluid away from the brain, to relieve the pressure, and ortho surgery to stabilize the C1 and the Dens.

I think the best way to determine 'why' would be a necropsy.

Again, I'm so very sorry for your loss. My thoughts, prayers, and my heart are with you and your family during this devastingly sad time...
Kathy