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Old 03-01-2010, 06:35 PM   #1
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Sad Four year old Yorkie won't stop itching and licking

Hi everyone, I'm new (as of today) and I need some help for my four year old Yorkie Molly. For the first two years with us, Molly had absolutely no issues. She always had a gorgeous coat of hair, never itched and we never seemed to have any troubles. About two years ago she began "itching and licking" constantly. We took her to the vet and he told us it was allergies. He gave us the options and we ended up trying some type of steroids (I believe it was prednisolone or something like that). She seemed only a little better but we stayed with the treatment for a good two months to give it time to work. The only thing that came from that treatment was constant urination and (I suspect) the eventual formation of a small stone in her Bladder. She was then turned to Atopica but would randomly vomit up her food every other day so we had to stop using that. She then went to the food diet to rule out food allergies. Molly is a very picky eater and it all started around the time we had her spayed that she started refusing her dog food. She currently only eats things like special dog food to help with the Bladder stone and boiled chicken and rice. The allergies have gotten so bad that we avoid at all costs taking her out until we figure out the cause (since we have NO clue what this is).

I wash her in room temp to slightly colder water to avoid aggravating her skin. We have special allergy shampoo and leave on lotion from the vet that we try but it all seems to be in vain. I will attach a few pictures to show the extent of her discomfort. I'm at a loss for words and my only hope is that someone on here has gone through this and has some other course of action because the vet has all but let us down.

Her MAIN issues seem to be starting near her hind area working its way up her sides. She licks pretty much all of her hair off the front and back legs and she scratched a very good portion off of that side and rear area. She even has red marks from scratching under her front "armpits" so to speak. Any help would be amazing at this point. I'm going out tomorrow to pick up Marigolds because I was told boiling three Marigolds in one cup of water, letting it cool and applying it to her hot spots would ease her discomfort . No idea

Thanks for reading and sorry the post was a little lengthy and that there are links here instead of being embedded .. I'm still trying to figure my way around the site. Thanks again.

http://i47.tinypic.com/5voldv.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/15rxwk9.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/hwyfz8.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2rqgkcw.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/13yhspj.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/2qxtkj7.jpg
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:01 PM   #2
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Oh, your poor baby ! Before going into some thoughts - has she had any bloodwork?

Has she had a skin scraping (and then looked at immed. under scope)?
Has her skin been cultured (grown out in culture for 10-14 days)?
Has she been put on Simplicef?
Has she seen a Vet Dermatologist yet?

This looks like pyoderma to me, first off...but I have more thoughts on this. I will probably post more tomorrow (sorry, I have some things I must get done yet tonight)...but knowing a few more things might be helpful.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:03 PM   #3
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well first off the vet did it backwards food elimination is first but 10% of the time it is food. I have gone through the same thing since my girl was 6 mos - allergies start from the time they are 6 mos to 3 years. If it is back half of dog then usually flea allergy so do you ever see fleas? My girl could not tolerate atopica either but were you giving it with a little food? I am going to pull a link i wrote a bunch of info for you to read

first off chicken is the worst protein you can feed for an allergy dog so i would first start with transitioning off a chicken food to natural balance venison and sweet potato - have you ever fed her venison? Was she spayed before or after this all started? What changed right before this all started if you think back?

Also whenever a dog has skin issues you always want a full thyroid panel done to rule out hypothyroid as it runs in this breed.

I notice you have her cut down short and i keep a longer coat as the coat protects the skin from pollen getting on it and i keep mine in a tshirt too to keep pollens from skin as double protection.

My friend lives in new jersey and she is having a time of it with her dog as well

Allergies are the worst as 90% of the time it is environmental and if so your only options are hyposensitization shots, atopica or steroids - you can minimize the itching with minimal ingredient diets and some supplements like coconut oil and probiotics help but it is tough if environmental. If it is winter there and she is still itching it can be either food related or mold allergy as there are no pollens there now or fleas.

What shampoo are you using as sometimes the chemicals in vet shampoos can aggravate them so i tend to go with a mild hypoallergenic shampoo instead.

I totally get your frustration as i have an allergy dog too and it is heart breaking

also you may want to get a dermatologist in your area as we see one and it helps as they are very good with skin and allergy issues and it saves in the long run and they tend to be more conservative in treatment with steroids and meds than a normal vet on this topic
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:07 PM   #4
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just bumped the thread but here is the link so go down and start reading where i first posted and this should help some

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...y-what-do.html
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:14 PM   #5
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in looking at those pics i would strongly recommend getting to a dermatologist as looks like some infection - I will check my dermatology books tonight to see if there is a pic of something like what she has but it looks very uncomfortable and i would get her on some steroids and antibiotics but a dermatologist will get on it fast.

A good shampoo that is mild for bacteria infections is duoxo chlorhexedine. My dd is super sensitive to vet shampoos and she tolerated this without a reaction and she reacted to malaseb, ketachlor, sebalux, etc so i think this is very mild and someone else on here uses benzoyl shampoo which is good but it is more drying and dry skin can make them itchy but the one she gets has moisturizers in it.

Poor thing well you came to the right place as you will get some great info on here - we will try to help you get her better to be comfortable is key
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:19 PM   #6
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a great book about allergies i really learned alot from was allergy solution for dogs

The Allergy Solution for Dogs by Shawn Messonnier (2... - eBay (item 260553943983 end time Mar-17-10 12:22:19 PDT)

it is excellent in explaining all about allergies

here is another book i like as well

Dr. Goodpet – Pet Allergies: Remedies for an Epidemic
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom View Post
Oh, your poor baby ! Before going into some thoughts - has she had any bloodwork?

Has she had a skin scraping (and then looked at immed. under scope)?
Has her skin been cultured (grown out in culture for 10-14 days)?
Has she been put on Simplicef?
Has she seen a Vet Dermatologist yet?

This looks like pyoderma to me, first off...but I have more thoughts on this. I will probably post more tomorrow (sorry, I have some things I must get done yet tonight)...but knowing a few more things might be helpful.
First of all, thank you ALL soo much for all of the responses soo quickly .. I really feel like I've come to the right place now .. as for the questions

the vet mentioned blood work after a few visits but he never mentioned it again and there was just soo much going on with the treatments that it slipped my mind to ever bring it back up .. he also seemed soo confident that it was food allergies that we just followed him soo blindy

no other tests have ever been done to be honest .. he's seen her more times than I can count and we ended up having a file about an inch thick from the visits .. we ended up switching vets because we felt he was only in it for the money .. our current vet has been making little progress but we've had two recent issues that have pushed back the allergy treatment hunt .. a few months ago she injured her eye and the WHOLE eye went milk white .. I nearly had a heart attack then and there .. the NEW vet that we still currently go to gave us such a strong line of treatments to return her eyesight that we've stayed with him ever since (needless to say her vision returned and he is completely why my baby can see [it ended up being traumatic glaucoma]) .. the second issue was this stone in her Bladder but the tiny drops of pee in her urine have been gone for weeks now that we've been giving her this special food with her actual food .. I may have to mention some of these tests to my new vet .. thank you soo much for the suggestions
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by dwerten View Post
well first off the vet did it backwards food elimination is first but 10% of the time it is food. I have gone through the same thing since my girl was 6 mos - allergies start from the time they are 6 mos to 3 years. If it is back half of dog then usually flea allergy so do you ever see fleas? My girl could not tolerate atopica either but were you giving it with a little food? I am going to pull a link i wrote a bunch of info for you to read

first off chicken is the worst protein you can feed for an allergy dog so i would first start with transitioning off a chicken food to natural balance venison and sweet potato - have you ever fed her venison? Was she spayed before or after this all started? What changed right before this all started if you think back?

Also whenever a dog has skin issues you always want a full thyroid panel done to rule out hypothyroid as it runs in this breed.

I notice you have her cut down short and i keep a longer coat as the coat protects the skin from pollen getting on it and i keep mine in a tshirt too to keep pollens from skin as double protection.

My friend lives in new jersey and she is having a time of it with her dog as well

Allergies are the worst as 90% of the time it is environmental and if so your only options are hyposensitization shots, atopica or steroids - you can minimize the itching with minimal ingredient diets and some supplements like coconut oil and probiotics help but it is tough if environmental. If it is winter there and she is still itching it can be either food related or mold allergy as there are no pollens there now or fleas.

What shampoo are you using as sometimes the chemicals in vet shampoos can aggravate them so i tend to go with a mild hypoallergenic shampoo instead.

I totally get your frustration as i have an allergy dog too and it is heart breaking

also you may want to get a dermatologist in your area as we see one and it helps as they are very good with skin and allergy issues and it saves in the long run and they tend to be more conservative in treatment with steroids and meds than a normal vet on this topic
thank you for the reply .. I have a LOT to read through in other threads to fully grasp what I'm up against but as far as the flea that was one of the first things I thought up and immediately put her on Frontline which she's BEEN taking .. we washed her bedding in very hot soapy water and we don't have ANY rugs in the house .. plus we've just recently moved within the last few months and the allergies symptoms have not gotten any better

we have tried the Natural Balance with her but she refuses to eat it .. she would rather starve than eat it .. I'm hoping to find some sort of miracle but I know miracles don't exist when it comes to something like this .. there could be soo many things bothering her that it just blows my mind .. we've cut down on her walking and she's washed every few days (as per the vet) .. also something I want to mention .. after a few days of not getting a bath and NOT going out she has an odor .. like a while back she used to get scabs that would heal but still sometimes she has a smell on her that always seems to be strange .. I've read on other sites that it would be something to do with her sweat glands .. I can't remember what they called it but it was something with the sweat glands that caused her to be itchy and actually let off a slight odor .. I'm trying to figure this out but there's just soo many variables that could effect this .. the only positive is that she has never lost her appetite .. she's playful .. has her toys all over the house .. LOVES her chew foods which keeps those teeth nice and pretty and she's just a lovable dog that will lick you to death if given the change .. it's only this allergy thing that makes me cry because I want her to have the best possible life .. I've owned a few other dogs before Molly and each time I get a new one I kick myself wondering why I do this to myself lol .. I get SOO attached and it's a heartbreak when something is wrong ..

thanks again for all of the replies .. any other suggestions would be amazing .. I'm going to read more into the answers and hopefully see the vet soon for SOME kind of testing .. thanks again, it means the world to Molly and I
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:32 AM   #9
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Hi again...

Okay...don't take this the wrong way, but from they way it seems (perhaps) your vet is handling this, he may not have the necessary understanding of allergies. I suggest a Vet Dermatologist.

Right from the start, your kiddo should have had a skin scraping and a culture - both are simple, quick, and very diagnositic (and, can provide clues to relief!).

The fact that it seems the vet didn't even rule in/out whether this is a skin infection...is...not good. If this is staph intermedius (pyoderma) or fungal - it has to be treated. When skin/ear etc. infections are chronic/recurrent - there is something else going on, as skin is an elimination organ - so it's either 1) allergies or 2) secondary to a disease (hence, bloodwork needed).

If food was seriously suspected (only 10-15% of allergy cases), chicken should've been eliminated by the vet right away. Chicken and beef are known protein-source allergens. So, even if it is/was food allergy...the path taken by the vet didn't likely eliminate the right things for your baby.

A Vet Derm could likely figure this out very quickly. While it could be a food allergy, it really wasn't approached very well by your vet and I feel really bad for you and your kiddo - but try not to worry, I've been there too - and this is my vet derm's FAQ page, scroll down, click on "food allergies", for one, but there is all kinds of good stuff here (photos too): Dermatology for Animals
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:49 AM   #10
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You have been given some great advise...The only other thing I will ask you is, what do you wash your floors with? I cannot use a number of different kinds of floor detergents as it made my girl break out and just sit and itch all day...

Once I started to use just a steamer her problems went away.

I still believe you should get a skin scrapping so you can figure this out.
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Old 03-02-2010, 06:11 AM   #11
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Molly must be miserable. My Cali has bad allergies and we went through all the steps, food elimination, bloodwork, skin scrapings. Nothing definitive was found. I have her on California Natural lamb and rice and their health bars and Zukes salmon treats, nothing else. She has also been on Atopica for almost 2 years. The Atopica pretty much eliminated her scratching. When they first put her on it she became real sick, throwing up etc. so we stopped for a week and started her back up with a low dose of steroids. She was weaned off the steroids after 2 weeks and that worked great. I hope you can get her some relief soon.
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Old 03-02-2010, 06:16 AM   #12
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I really don't have anything to add to what everyone has said as they have covered it all!

I DO think you should go to a vet dermatologist. Poor baby needs some relief and it sounds like that has not happened with either of your vets.

I have allergy pups and know how frustrating it is, but seriously they should not look as bad as the pictures you have provided. She must be miserable.

Good luck to you! ... and welcome to YT
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Old 03-02-2010, 06:28 AM   #13
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so sorry that your little is going thru this. I am no help with this. When we got Hot Rod is was very itchy and flakey. His ears were so dry and flakey that big flakes of skin would just come off. At one point, our first vet suspected ringworm. We utlimately changed vets and she recommended a medicated shampoo and conditioner. I also switched foods. So far it's been under control since all of this.

Recently however I have noticed that he does tend to chew on his front paws after eating a lot of chicken.

Good luck in finding out what is wrong with your little and I hope that you can find a solution. You've gotten a lot of great advice.
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viOlaziOne View Post
First of all, thank you ALL soo much for all of the responses soo quickly .. I really feel like I've come to the right place now .. as for the questions

the vet mentioned blood work after a few visits but he never mentioned it again and there was just soo much going on with the treatments that it slipped my mind to ever bring it back up .. he also seemed soo confident that it was food allergies that we just followed him soo blindy

no other tests have ever been done to be honest .. he's seen her more times than I can count and we ended up having a file about an inch thick from the visits .. we ended up switching vets because we felt he was only in it for the money .. our current vet has been making little progress but we've had two recent issues that have pushed back the allergy treatment hunt .. a few months ago she injured her eye and the WHOLE eye went milk white .. I nearly had a heart attack then and there .. the NEW vet that we still currently go to gave us such a strong line of treatments to return her eyesight that we've stayed with him ever since (needless to say her vision returned and he is completely why my baby can see [it ended up being traumatic glaucoma]) .. the second issue was this stone in her Bladder but the tiny drops of pee in her urine have been gone for weeks now that we've been giving her this special food with her actual food .. I may have to mention some of these tests to my new vet .. thank you soo much for the suggestions
save your money and get to a specialist as many times this saves you money in the long run
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom View Post
Hi again...

Okay...don't take this the wrong way, but from they way it seems (perhaps) your vet is handling this, he may not have the necessary understanding of allergies. I suggest a Vet Dermatologist.

Right from the start, your kiddo should have had a skin scraping and a culture - both are simple, quick, and very diagnositic (and, can provide clues to relief!).

The fact that it seems the vet didn't even rule in/out whether this is a skin infection...is...not good. If this is staph intermedius (pyoderma) or fungal - it has to be treated. When skin/ear etc. infections are chronic/recurrent - there is something else going on, as skin is an elimination organ - so it's either 1) allergies or 2) secondary to a disease (hence, bloodwork needed).

If food was seriously suspected (only 10-15% of allergy cases), chicken should've been eliminated by the vet right away. Chicken and beef are known protein-source allergens. So, even if it is/was food allergy...the path taken by the vet didn't likely eliminate the right things for your baby.

A Vet Derm could likely figure this out very quickly. While it could be a food allergy, it really wasn't approached very well by your vet and I feel really bad for you and your kiddo - but try not to worry, I've been there too - and this is my vet derm's FAQ page, scroll down, click on "food allergies", for one, but there is all kinds of good stuff here (photos too): Dermatology for Animals
great website ann just snagged it for my allergy group
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