Lacy's BAT results were high...need some advice

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

There is a great deal of information on how athletes process fats and cholesterol differently then couch potatoes. I see Yorkies more like a couch potato and I see the wolf as an extreme athlete. The good news is that:

Lacy is definitely not a couch potato...that would be Rylie. Lacy is pretty active a lot of the time

[wemple2]

All very interesting reading. Fatty liver is very common in humans...diet & exercise definitely helps. They of course should also refrain from any alcohol intake, so I understand why your vet suggested she stop using PetzLife. Out of curiosity, I just checked Winston's test results, his cholesterol-145 and his triglycerides-43...very good!!!
Another thought, do dogs get Pernicious Anemia like humans? Where they have to get B12 injections? Just wondering...
Good luck with Lacy's new diet...hope it does wonders for her!!!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Lacy is definitely not a couch potato...that would be Rylie. Lacy is pretty active a lot of the time

Of course there is great variation between dogs, and even greater variation between breeds, but being active isn't the same as being an extreme athlete. Wolfs, for example, might run for miles to catch and overcome their prey. I just mean as a breed, the Yorkshire terrier is classified as a breed that isn't all that active, and doesn't need much exercise.

[DAB]

I emailed Petzlife today about side effects of the grain alcohol. It is Sunday but I hope I will get a reply this week. Thanks for the info as I use this product as well. Has anyone else contacted the company?
DAB

[cj125]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

I tend to agree. I bet Lacy's diet is the culprit rather than Petzlife. As I said, we have a little Maltese on another forum who had high triglycerides and fat deposits behind the eyes from Innova Evo. We have a vet tech who is also a member and she said they had seen several cases of high triglycerides in dogs on the high fat, high protein diets like Evo.

It will be interesting to see if the low fat homemade diet makes a difference. It did with the little Maltese, Quincy. All his bloodwork was completely normal after a change in diet.

BTW, Quincy's mom was and still is using Petzlife.

Wow - that's great to hear.

[Brooklynn]

I'm glad to hear the results are better than they could have been. Lacy has been in my prayers.
I have to agree with some on the RAW diet although. Not all dogs can do it but some can. I'm not totally against but I can see where it could cause the liver to have fatty tissues since it is RAW. But of course I'm not an expert but I personally can't do it and I have wonderful friends that swear by it but for me it's a personal choice and I just have the fear of bacterial infections from RAW. Just not sanitary in my opinion. But whatever works for one is great! I"m just not all convinced it's the safest diet.

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[MyFairLacy]

I'm pretty positive I'm going to set up a phone consult with Susan Davis, a holistic nutritionist in California. I'd like to see what she has to say about Rylie's diet as well. It's just so confusing..you try to do what's best, but it's hard to know what really is best. I guess it's no different than people...one year they say something is great for you and another year they say to stay away from it. She's been eating the homecooked diet I made for her well, but I really want to consult a nutritionist just to make sure we're feeding the best diet we can.

[marcerella02]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I'm pretty positive I'm going to set up a phone consult with Susan Davis, a holistic nutritionist in California. I'd like to see what she has to say about Rylie's diet as well. It's just so confusing..you try to do what's best, but it's hard to know what really is best. I guess it's no different than people...one year they say something is great for you and another year they say to stay away from it. She's been eating the homecooked diet I made for her well, but I really want to consult a nutritionist just to make sure we're feeding the best diet we can.

oh that's great to hear- you won't regret the appointment! Please let us know how it goes

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I'm pretty positive I'm going to set up a phone consult with Susan Davis, a holistic nutritionist in California. I'd like to see what she has to say about Rylie's diet as well. It's just so confusing..you try to do what's best, but it's hard to know what really is best. I guess it's no different than people...one year they say something is great for you and another year they say to stay away from it. She's been eating the homecooked diet I made for her well, but I really want to consult a nutritionist just to make sure we're feeding the best diet we can.

That's exactly right, and that's why it best not to be swayed by what I call "pop" science. One study never means anything in the real world of science. It just indicates further study is needed. Very often an original study can never be replicated, and this indicates the original study was in error, and the results were due to some fluke. Yet, whole books and theories are written in pop science because of the one poorly done study. After a study is replicated, it has to be manipulated to see if other things could have caused the effect. Scientists are like detectives solving a mystery, and are always looking to see what could have caused the effect besides what was being tested, and design another study to rule out that variable. So that's why that laymen often think that science is rapidly changing, but it's not, true science moves slowly, as it should.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

That's exactly right, and that's why it best not to be swayed by what I call "pop" science. One study never means anything in the real world of science. It just indicates further study is needed. Very often an original study can never be replicated, and this indicates the original study was in error, and the results were due to some fluke. Yet, whole books and theories are written in pop science because of the one poorly done study. After a study is replicated, it has to be manipulated to see if other things could have caused the effect. Scientists are like detectives solving a mystery, and are always looking to see what could have caused the effect besides what was being tested, and design another study to rule out that variable. So that's why that laymen often think that science is rapidly changing, but it's not, true science moves slowly, as it should.

Yup agreed!!!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I'm pretty positive I'm going to set up a phone consult with Susan Davis, a holistic nutritionist in California. I'd like to see what she has to say about Rylie's diet as well. She's been eating the homecooked diet I made for her well, but I really want to consult a nutritionist just to make sure we're feeding the best diet we can.

She's wonderful - that's who I worked with for Marcel. The diet you're feeding that I PMd you is from her as well. I just can't say enough about her. She is a proponent of both raw and homecooking, depending on your situation.

I agree w/ Nancy that we shouldn't generalize about it being Petzlife, I also don't think we should assume it's bc of raw or diet. It could be Lacy's system on its own (genetic), and it could be totally idiopathic as well.

Humans who eat very well and exercise can develop high cholesterol or other things - it's really not all that different for other creatures.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

She's wonderful - that's who I worked with for Marcel. The diet you're feeding that I PMd you is from her as well. I just can't say enough about her. She is a proponent of both raw and homecooking, depending on your situation.

I agree w/ Nancy that we shouldn't generalize about it being Petzlife, I also don't think we should assume it's bc of raw or diet. It could be Lacy's system on its own (genetic), and it could be totally idiopathic as well.

Humans who eat very well and exercise can develop high cholesterol or other things - it's really not all that different for other creatures.

It seems like many have had great success with her and I think I would feel better too actually consulting a nutrtionist rather than just having a website calculate diets (balanceit.com). I want someone to be able to tell me why we are feeding certain ingredients and supplements.

I've always been a big supporter of raw...I'm not as confident now, but I am in no way convinced that raw isn't best for most dogs. There are so many who have fed it to their dogs for years and years and it's cured different problems and their dogs have lived very long and healthy lives. My cats eat raw and Rylie is still eating raw right now.

Also with Petzlife...I am only concerned it might have been a contributing factor...I don't think there would ever be any way to prove it. And it seems like most dogs do fine on it. I just wonder if the alcohol in the product is too much for SOME dogs....I guess in the same way that feeding raw doesn't work for SOME dogs.

I too wonder if this is something Lacy was predisposed too. There is just not enough info on Hepatic Lipidosis in dogs to know I guess.

[DAB]

YIKES! I have been feeding Innova Evo to my 2 yorkies for quite a while. My almost 5 year old girl has been fine on the diet. Could this diet have bad implications in the future for her? My little one, Emma, age 2, is the one being seen at Tufts for a liver issues and is now on the Iams low residue diet. Could Evo be the culprit of the high bile acid count?

What high quality kibble (when it comes to good nutrition/food, cost is not a concern) do yorkie breeders and owners recommend? I don't believe most vets are adequately trained in nutrition. It really has not been a real important part of their education. However, especially since the food recalls last year, I would think that schools are beginning to take notice and hopefully make food/ nutrition an important part of vet curriculum and training. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any recommendations about premium kibble you can give me.

DAB

[MyFairLacy]

I just got an email back from Natures Variet and they said the true fat in the raw is 11% which is 26% on a dry matter basis.

[MyFairLacy]

I have a Nutrition consult set up with Dr. Susan Davis for Friday at 2:00 (central time). I'm looking forward to talking with her