Lacy's BAT results were high...need some advice

[Wylie's Mom]

Hmmmm...very interesting. At least you have an answer, but still, this is unusual.

Interestingly, last year a male (human ) friend of ours suddenly was Dx w/ fatty liver - he was normal wt, not diabetic, and not a drinker. My sister is an internist, so I ran all of his tests by her and described what was going on. She indicated that fatty liver is often completely idiopathic, which seems so odd to me, but that's what she said. She also said that it can resolve very easily for some people within 6 months or so. Sure enough, my friend ate a lower fat diet, cut out all alcohol, exercised a little more than usual - and after about 6 mths or so, his liver tested totally normal. So, I know it's awful not to know a cause, but I guess this is common w/ fatty liver.

The Petzlife issue is concerning too...makes me wonder...

[cj125]

Michele - I'm happy to hear Lacy is feeling better. You've brought up several items that we've been concerned about as well.

Petzlife... I started using it a couple of years ago but found that the kids really didn't like it. It smelled so strong. I stopped using it but saw that there was an increase in tarter on their teeth. I did start using again but I diluted it. I only use it once a week - at bath time and I try to brush with a toothpaste a couple of times a week.

Raw diet... I know that some people are totally into this and I don't discourage anyone from doing it. We did try it on Mia when she was under a year old because we had such a hard time trying to get her to eat anything. Maybe we have OCD but just the fact that it was raw and the bacteria that could develop - scared us.

Mia had problems when we first got her and we have had to try many different foods to find one that would keep her stools firm and one that she would eat. I'm not crazy about the Science Diet that she's on - but it is doing the job.

Maybe we should post a poll on the Petzlife. I'm really curious about that now.

[TLC]

Thanks for the update.

I agree that Petzlife is a NO NO - there is no need to give our dogs something with grain alcohol in it. We use Maxi/Guard

Have you joined the Dog Liver Disease group on Yahoo yet? (Olga) does incredible research and I bet she could help guide you

TJ was on Tylan for just under 1 year. His folate levels were sky high, they Vet said IBD (bacteria overgrowth). Tylan was the only thing that helped stop his episodes

-Nicole

[dogears]

This is all very much interesting. As it seems Lacy and Tanj are in the same boat. Just out of the blue Tanj started having liver issues too. And I too was feeding NV raw chicken but only for about 3 months before everything started. And I was using Petzlife 1-2 times a day for about 2-3 months. So I think it may be some kind of relation somewhere.

When I took Tanj to the vet 2 weeks ago the vet asked if she had gotten into anything that could have been poisonous and I racked my brain for about a week, and out of the blue Petzlife popped in my mind. So I too will be digging for answers.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Interestingly, last year a male (human ) friend of ours suddenly was Dx w/ fatty liver - he was normal wt, not diabetic, and not a drinker. My sister is an internist, so I ran all of his tests by her and described what was going on. She indicated that fatty liver is often completely idiopathic, which seems so odd to me, but that's what she said. She also said that it can resolve very easily for some people within 6 months or so. Sure enough, my friend ate a lower fat diet, cut out all alcohol, exercised a little more than usual - and after about 6 mths or so, his liver tested totally normal. So, I know it's awful not to know a cause, but I guess this is common w/ fatty liver.

It is strange...maybe there is something that predisposes certain people/dogs/cats to this Hopefully with a diet change, her liver will get back to normal too.

Originally Posted by TLC

Have you joined the Dog Liver Disease group on Yahoo yet? (Olga) does incredible research and I bet she could help guide you

I had joined a Liver shunt/MVD support group. Can you give me a link to the liver group you are talking about? It would probably be better to be on one that includes all liver diseases.

Originally Posted by dogears

This is all very much interesting. As it seems Lacy and Tanj are in the same boat. Just out of the blue Tanj started having liver issues too. And I too was feeding NV raw chicken but only for about 3 months before everything started. And I was using Petzlife 1-2 times a day for about 2-3 months. So I think it may be some kind of relation somewhere.

When I took Tanj to the vet 2 weeks ago the vet asked if she had gotten into anything that could have been poisonous and I racked my brain for about a week, and out of the blue Petzlife popped in my mind. So I too will be digging for answers.

That is interesting... I e-mailed Petzlife with my concerns and Lacy's diagnosis. Did you get an exact diagnosis for Tanj? Maybe you should e-mail Petzlife as well.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Interesting diagnosis.
It isn't common in dogs but can happen obviously.
Her u/s results did make me wonder about it.

You may want to test triglycerides anyway. I know Ellie's internist thought it would be good idea too test hers and see if they were high despite being on a low fat diet.

That is actually a scary thought now that you bring it up. The NV is low fat at 18-19% but that is the minimum. So how do we "know" it isn't higher? The same goes for other companies as well. And what about the people who need low protein for their dogs...just because it is a 20% min. or whatever doesn't really mean much.

The low b12 could also mean PLE I think...hopefully not the case here though.

Did the vet give you a % of fat that you need to stay under?

Petzlife...I just don't know about the stuff. It is full of alcohol and whether it causes damage or not, I don't see no reason to take the chance.

Yeah, I might go ahead and test her triglycerides anyway. I also e-mailed NV to ask about exact fat content but haven't heard back from them yet. HOpefully they can give me a good answer. Her vet used balanceit.com to formulate a few diets and e-mailed them to me and they range from 16-19% fat.

[MyFairLacy]

Lacy does not need to be on a protein-restricted diet...just a lower fat diet with novel proteins... I'm going to make the Dr. Dodd's liver diet today just so she'll have something low fat and with fish to eat for a few days until I get other supplements I would need for other diets. But she can't be on that for long because it's way too low in protein.

I saw a link to a nutritionist..Dr. Susan Davis I think..in another thread. I'm just wondering if I ought to consult a nutritionist. Or do any of you have holistic nutritionists that do phone consults?

[dogears]

Here are something interesting I found about Petzlife (I'm still searching):

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Petzlife Oral Care Gel and Spray Read "beware, has grain alcohol


No MyFairLady I have not gotten an exact diagnosis for Tanj. My vet is pretty much treating it as a poisoning case. I will be contacting Petzlife after I do a little bit more digging.

[TLC]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Lacy does not need to be on a protein-restricted diet...just a lower fat diet with novel proteins... I'm going to make the Dr. Dodd's liver diet today just so she'll have something low fat and with fish to eat for a few days until I get other supplements I would need for other diets. But she can't be on that for long because it's way too low in protein.

I saw a link to a nutritionist..Dr. Susan Davis I think..in another thread. I'm just wondering if I ought to consult a nutritionist. Or do any of you have holistic nutritionists that do phone consults?

I have a Nutritionist from Cornell Univ.
We communicate through emails. The diet cost $140 - it will be created with human ingredients and human supplements/vitamins. He is highly recommended. Let me know if you want his contact info.

Here is the Yahoo Group:
DogLiverDisease : Dog Liver Disease

[BLEU BOY BARBER]

I am so glad you did not have to go the weekend waiting on the results and you can now rest knowing you have a plan and can move forward.

I am very glad you posted about the PETZLIFE it never even dawned on me and just this week I was going to start using it. I will think twice now

Continued Prayers for you and your babies.

HUGS
Vicki

[Ellie May]

I have three diets formulated by a nutritionist. They were created for Ellie but should work here. They are all 24% protein and 18% fat. One is standard chicken or turkey with grain or sweet potato and veggies, one is whitefish, sweet potato and oatmeal and one is egg and sweet potato. Two of them contain fish oil. They all use Balance IT K ( the Balance IT type recommended for liver compromised dogs which does not contain the controversial menadione that the regular Balance IT contains). Balance IT can also give you a list of human supplements that you can use instead. The calcium/phos. they use is something that contains SLS which I was kind of uneasy about. Let me know if you are interested in any of the diets we have here.

And since you can add about 10% unbalanced food to most dog diets without needing to readjust cal/phos ratio, etc., you could probably add a couple extra bites of protein a day if you wanted to.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by dogears

Here are something interesting I found about Petzlife (I'm still searching):

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Petzlife Oral Care Gel and Spray Read "beware, has grain alcohol


No MyFairLady I have not gotten an exact diagnosis for Tanj. My vet is pretty much treating it as a poisoning case. I will be contacting Petzlife after I do a little bit more digging.

I tried doing a search and couldn't get any complaints to come up. That's really interesting to hear...I just really wonder if the alcohol is too much for some dogs. If this product is causing some liver problems in some dogs, the company needs to be aware of it. I just don't know how they'd be able to know for sure.

[Nancy1999]

Even though the vet recommended the discontinuing of Petzlife, it doesn't' mean the Petzlife caused the problem. The vet even said" it's "unlikely that Petzlife caused the problem", he just thinks it's safer not to give it to a dog with liver problems, which is common sense. I just hope everyone doesn't over generalize. Only you know how much of the product you used, but tartar is such a problem with yorkies, and I hate to see a good product vilified, if there is indeed no problem. I think it's great that you told the company, but I hope people are careful about what they pass as facts. I have long thought that raw was not the best choice for small breed dogs, and I believe that this should be looked at more closely, but I don't think anyone can generalize much from this. Best of luck with Lacy.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Even though the vet recommended the discontinuing of Petzlife, it doesn't' mean the Petzlife caused the problem. The vet even said" it's "unlikely that Petzlife caused the problem", he just thinks it's safer not to give it to a dog with liver problems, which is common sense. I just hope everyone doesn't over generalize. Only you know how much of the product you used, but tartar is such a problem with yorkies, and I hate to see a good product vilified, if there is indeed no problem. I think it's great that you told the company, but I hope people are careful about what they pass as facts. I have long thought that raw was not the best choice for small breed dogs, and I believe that this should be looked at more closely, but I don't think anyone can generalize much from this. Best of luck with Lacy.

I tend to agree. I bet Lacy's diet is the culprit rather than Petzlife. As I said, we have a little Maltese on another forum who had high triglycerides and fat deposits behind the eyes from Innova Evo. We have a vet tech who is also a member and she said they had seen several cases of high triglycerides in dogs on the high fat, high protein diets like Evo.

It will be interesting to see if the low fat homemade diet makes a difference. It did with the little Maltese, Quincy. All his bloodwork was completely normal after a change in diet.

BTW, Quincy's mom was and still is using Petzlife.

[Nancy1999]

There is a great deal of information on how athletes process fats and cholesterol differently then couch potatoes. I see Yorkies more like a couch potato and I see the wolf as an extreme athlete. The good news is that:

" Physical activity prevented fatty liver disease by 100 percent in an animal model of fatty liver disease," said Frank Booth, a professor in the MU College of Veterinary Medicine and the MU School of Medicine and a research investigator in the Dalton Cardiovascular Research Center. "In contrast, 100 percent of the group that did not have physical activity had fatty liver disease. This is a remarkable event. It is rare in medicine for any treatment to prevent any disease by 100 percent." Exercise Prevents Fatty Liver Disease According To New Study