Lacy's BAT results were high...need some advice - Page 14 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

wemple2 · 03-08-2009, 01:03 PM

I too am curious how the consult went...hope Lacy is still doing well.

MyFairLacy · 03-08-2009, 02:56 PM

sorry I haven't updated sooner. My computer kindof crashed Friday night - it will turn on and start loading up and then just freeze and won't go any further

I've been getting on YT with my iphone but it takes a lot longer to type so I didn't want to type a long response. I had to come up to school today to print some things off so I thought I'd update now.

I think the consult went great! I really liked Dr. Gordon and Susan Davis. They really seemed to know what they were talking about. Dr. Gordon said Hepatic Lipidosis is very uncommon in dogs, but it's seen in the Yorkshire Terrier most commonly. He felt like her intestinal disease was probably linked to her liver problems, and he said most likely it was something she was predisposed too..something genetic with her metabolism.

I talked to Susan Davis for about an hour. She said she loves the NV raw medallions but doesn't think it is good to feed only that. She thinks they are too rich (high protein/high fat and lots of organ meat) for it to be the whole diet. She didn't seem to think having an all high-protein diet was the way to go and said she's seen too many dogs get sick and did a lot of blood testing on her own dog when changing foods. She recommended a combination of raw and homecooking, and the homecooked diet she provided for us was a moderate protein/low fat diet. I told her I was always so pro-feeding only raw but I trusted her and thought she probably knows what's she's talking about.

She gave us a fish-based diet (using whitefish and salmon) with potato and some veggies. We'll also use fish oil and some olive oil every day. Lacy will also get a vit. B complex supplement and will use three other supplements for now, but I'm hoping eventually we won't have to use those and that she'll be fine on the new diet. She will eat only this homecooked diet for a month, and then if she is doing well we can decrease to feeding 1/2 the homecooked and add 1.5 raw medallions back in. I'll feed her three meals a day and she'd get 1/2 medallion and some homecooked at each meal.

Rylie will also be doing half homecooked and half raw. He's got a much slower metabolism and is a little chunky so he gets about 1/3 of the recipe she gave me and one raw medallion a day. And he'll get some fish oil and olive oil too.

I cooked enough food to last me 16 days for both of them last night. Eventually when Lacy can have some raw too it will last more like 25 days. They seem to like the food...it's just so much bulkier than the raw. So hopefully they will do well on this. I would definitely recommend Susan Davis to anyone looking for a nutrition consult!

I just e-mailed the specialist Lacy saw at A&M to do a little followup too. I got an additional test result in Friday. I submitted a fecal sample to the GI lab for a PCR, and she did test positive for two bacteria (Campylobacter upsaliensis and enterotoxigenic Clostridium perfringens). I think both have been found in healthy dogs but have also been associated with diarrhea in some. I also asked her if we needed to Vit. B injections as well and when we'll need to retest her bloodwork.

she's been doing great though. I took her stitches out friday and gave her a bath.

cj125 · 03-08-2009, 03:24 PM

Michele, I'm so happy to hear that Lacy is still doing well and I hope she continues to do so. I don't understand all the lingo but I get the idea. It's crazy what we go through for these little ones, isn't it? I hope this diet works and that Lacy doesn't have any more problems. Thanks so much for passing on the info about Petzlife. You're still in my thoughts and prayers

LuvMySissy · 03-08-2009, 03:55 PM

Michele - I'm glad the consult went well. I knew you would like both Dr. Gordon and Susan. Hope the diet works well for Lacy and you see results immediately. The supplements help a lot as well.

Ladymom · 03-08-2009, 04:36 PM

I'm so glad your consult went well! Sounds like you are on the right track to a healthier Lacy and a slimmer Rylie!

Did you know that Clostridium perfringens is thought to be one of the main causes of HGE? And that Yorkies are predisposed to HGE? Interesting, huh?

Merck Veterinary Manual

MyFairLacy · 03-08-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladymom

I'm so glad your consult went well! Sounds like you are on the right track to a healthier Lacy and a slimmer Rylie!

Did you know that Clostridium perfringens is thought to be one of the main causes of HGE? And that Yorkies are predisposed to HGE? Interesting, huh?

Merck Veterinary Manual

I didn't know that. Well hopefully the antibiotics will kill it off. I do own that book though

crb · 03-08-2009, 05:22 PM

So gald to hear the consult went well....looks like Lacy is on the road to recovery. We love having a healthy Lacy!! And Rylie!!!

tumismom · 03-08-2009, 05:26 PM

Hi Michele,
I am so glad you had a great session with susan! That's what I was told about raw feeding and that it could be too rich for our pups. I am doing half raw and half homecook also. the girls get Primal raw in the morning and homecook Salmon with sweet potatos at night. We use olive oil and also Amazing Omega. I am so happy with the results so far!

MyFairLacy · 03-08-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tumismom

Hi Michele,
I am so glad you had a great session with susan! That's what I was told about raw feeding and that it could be too rich for our pups. I am doing half raw and half homecook also. the girls get Primal raw in the morning and homecook Salmon with sweet potatos at night. We use olive oil and also Amazing Omega. I am so happy with the results so far!

Thanks. She told me she thought it was best to feed some raw and some homecooking at each meal. Did she tell you that? She compared it a person sitting down and eating a 10oz steak at one meal instead of spreading it out. I guess for better digestion

wemple2 · 03-08-2009, 06:02 PM

Sounds promising...hope the diet works and takes care of all her problems, and make Riley healthier as well.
I have always wondered about the high protein diets for Yorkies...I guess as with us humans...moderation is the key. Too much of a good thing is not so good after all. Always learning something new on YT, thanks Michele for sharing your experience with the rest of us.

Chance · 03-08-2009, 06:51 PM

Hi. I'm Sandy, I'm Chance's Mom. Chance is a 2 year old yorkie. She hasn't been feeling well. She has had sort of orange pee, not playing with her toys, not following me around like she used to, not barking and that is her flavorite thing to do. I took her to the vet, they did blood work and said her liver enzymes were some high, and to bring her back in 2 months to check it again. I don't want to wait that long, I believe the earlier they find something the better to treat it. She didn't have a kidney infection, but when she pees in the pee is little brown flakes like cinnamon in her urine. Which our vet said it could be bladder stones forming, but she didn't say anything about treatment. Please I need some info. I have found so much on the internet, it sounds like kidney or liver poblems. Chance is my baby.

MyFairLacy · 03-08-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chance

Hi. I'm Sandy, I'm Chance's Mom. Chance is a 2 year old yorkie. She hasn't been feeling well. She has had sort of orange pee, not playing with her toys, not following me around like she used to, not barking and that is her flavorite thing to do. I took her to the vet, they did blood work and said her liver enzymes were some high, and to bring her back in 2 months to check it again. I don't want to wait that long, I believe the earlier they find something the better to treat it. She didn't have a kidney infection, but when she pees in the pee is little brown flakes like cinnamon in her urine. Which our vet said it could be bladder stones forming, but she didn't say anything about treatment. Please I need some info. I have found so much on the internet, it sounds like kidney or liver poblems. Chance is my baby.

Were the liver enzymes all that was abnormal? You need to have your vet do a bile acid test and test the crystals to see if they are ammonia crystals.

Chance · 03-08-2009, 07:15 PM

Liver enzymes was all she said. What is bile acid test? What will they do to Chance for that? I took her pee pads in with the orange pee and cinnamon like flakes the vet said nothing about ammonia crystals. In Nov. Chance threw up worms. The vet tech said it was tapeworms, but from the books I read it sounded like whipworms, or threadworms. Somethings I read some problems with orange pee can be from worms. I'm really worried about liver and kidney problems how treatable are they.

MyFairLacy · 03-08-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chance

Liver enzymes was all she said. What is bile acid test? What will they do to Chance for that? I took her pee pads in with the orange pee and cinnamon like flakes the vet said nothing about ammonia crystals. In Nov. Chance threw up worms. The vet tech said it was tapeworms, but from the books I read it sounded like whipworms, or threadworms. Somethings I read some problems with orange pee can be from worms. I'm really worried about liver and kidney problems how treatable are they.

For a bile acid test you'll need a paired sample around a meal. Some vets still want you to fast your dog 12 hours. What you'll do is take your dog to the vet in the morning for the first blood draw. This will be the premeal sample. This should be no higher than 10. You then feed and take the postmeal blood draw two hours later. This should be no higher than 25. Your vet will send the two blood samples off for them to be bile acid tested and you'll get the results within a few days. The crystals also need to be tested. Liver shunt and hepatic microvascular dysplasia are very common in yorkies. That's not what my dog had but most yorkies with elevated bile acids have one or the other. There are other liver diseases too

Ladymom · 03-08-2009, 07:42 PM

We had a little Maltese on another forum with liver disease and orange urine. The vet said it was from the high bilirubin that goes along with liver disease (jaundice).

Chance needs to have a bile acids test. Here is a link explaining it. It is a very simple and inexpensive test.

PSVA and MVD Research Summary

03-08-2009, 01:03 PM	#196
wemple2 Wee Winston Wiggles Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Kewanee, Illinois Posts: 9,666	I too am curious how the consult went...hope Lacy is still doing well. __________________ As Ever, Kathy Intruducing Bentley Winston and Spencer: RIP My Sweet Angels

03-08-2009, 02:56 PM	#197
MyFairLacy Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 11,003	sorry I haven't updated sooner. My computer kindof crashed Friday night - it will turn on and start loading up and then just freeze and won't go any further I've been getting on YT with my iphone but it takes a lot longer to type so I didn't want to type a long response. I had to come up to school today to print some things off so I thought I'd update now. I think the consult went great! I really liked Dr. Gordon and Susan Davis. They really seemed to know what they were talking about. Dr. Gordon said Hepatic Lipidosis is very uncommon in dogs, but it's seen in the Yorkshire Terrier most commonly. He felt like her intestinal disease was probably linked to her liver problems, and he said most likely it was something she was predisposed too..something genetic with her metabolism. I talked to Susan Davis for about an hour. She said she loves the NV raw medallions but doesn't think it is good to feed only that. She thinks they are too rich (high protein/high fat and lots of organ meat) for it to be the whole diet. She didn't seem to think having an all high-protein diet was the way to go and said she's seen too many dogs get sick and did a lot of blood testing on her own dog when changing foods. She recommended a combination of raw and homecooking, and the homecooked diet she provided for us was a moderate protein/low fat diet. I told her I was always so pro-feeding only raw but I trusted her and thought she probably knows what's she's talking about. She gave us a fish-based diet (using whitefish and salmon) with potato and some veggies. We'll also use fish oil and some olive oil every day. Lacy will also get a vit. B complex supplement and will use three other supplements for now, but I'm hoping eventually we won't have to use those and that she'll be fine on the new diet. She will eat only this homecooked diet for a month, and then if she is doing well we can decrease to feeding 1/2 the homecooked and add 1.5 raw medallions back in. I'll feed her three meals a day and she'd get 1/2 medallion and some homecooked at each meal. Rylie will also be doing half homecooked and half raw. He's got a much slower metabolism and is a little chunky so he gets about 1/3 of the recipe she gave me and one raw medallion a day. And he'll get some fish oil and olive oil too. I cooked enough food to last me 16 days for both of them last night. Eventually when Lacy can have some raw too it will last more like 25 days. They seem to like the food...it's just so much bulkier than the raw. So hopefully they will do well on this. I would definitely recommend Susan Davis to anyone looking for a nutrition consult! I just e-mailed the specialist Lacy saw at A&M to do a little followup too. I got an additional test result in Friday. I submitted a fecal sample to the GI lab for a PCR, and she did test positive for two bacteria (Campylobacter upsaliensis and enterotoxigenic Clostridium perfringens). I think both have been found in healthy dogs but have also been associated with diarrhea in some. I also asked her if we needed to Vit. B injections as well and when we'll need to retest her bloodwork. she's been doing great though. I took her stitches out friday and gave her a bath. __________________ ~Magnifique Yorkies~ Purchasing from backyard breeders, pet shops, and puppymills perpetuates the suffering of other dogs. Educate yourself and buy from reputable breeders or rescue.

03-08-2009, 03:24 PM	#198
cj125 Mia, Max and Moe's Mom Donating Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 4,403	Michele, I'm so happy to hear that Lacy is still doing well and I hope she continues to do so. I don't understand all the lingo but I get the idea. It's crazy what we go through for these little ones, isn't it? I hope this diet works and that Lacy doesn't have any more problems. Thanks so much for passing on the info about Petzlife. You're still in my thoughts and prayers __________________ *Connie* Mia Max Moe

03-08-2009, 03:55 PM	#199
LuvMySissy Luv my Angel, too! Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: USA Posts: 9,333	Michele - I'm glad the consult went well. I knew you would like both Dr. Gordon and Susan. Hope the diet works well for Lacy and you see results immediately. The supplements help a lot as well. __________________ Sissy & Angel

03-08-2009, 04:36 PM	#200
Ladymom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,317	I'm so glad your consult went well! Sounds like you are on the right track to a healthier Lacy and a slimmer Rylie! Did you know that Clostridium perfringens is thought to be one of the main causes of HGE? And that Yorkies are predisposed to HGE? Interesting, huh? Merck Veterinary Manual __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref...6213341?ref=nf

03-08-2009, 05:22 PM	#202
crb Luvin' 6 Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bryan/College Station, TX Posts: 1,606	So gald to hear the consult went well....looks like Lacy is on the road to recovery. We love having a healthy Lacy!! And Rylie!!!

03-08-2009, 05:26 PM	#203
tumismom Owned by Tumi & Gracie Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 2,321	Hi Michele, I am so glad you had a great session with susan! That's what I was told about raw feeding and that it could be too rich for our pups. I am doing half raw and half homecook also. the girls get Primal raw in the morning and homecook Salmon with sweet potatos at night. We use olive oil and also Amazing Omega. I am so happy with the results so far! __________________ PROUD MOMMY OF MS.TUMI,MS.TSUBI AND MS.GRACIE! I LOVE MY BABY GIRLS!! PROUD MEMBER OF THE CRAZY CLUB!

03-08-2009, 06:02 PM	#205
wemple2 Wee Winston Wiggles Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Kewanee, Illinois Posts: 9,666	Sounds promising...hope the diet works and takes care of all her problems, and make Riley healthier as well. I have always wondered about the high protein diets for Yorkies...I guess as with us humans...moderation is the key. Too much of a good thing is not so good after all. Always learning something new on YT, thanks Michele for sharing your experience with the rest of us. __________________ As Ever, Kathy Intruducing Bentley Winston and Spencer: RIP My Sweet Angels

03-08-2009, 06:51 PM	#206
Chance Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Clarkrange Posts: 130	May have a problem, what was Lacy's problems Hi. I'm Sandy, I'm Chance's Mom. Chance is a 2 year old yorkie. She hasn't been feeling well. She has had sort of orange pee, not playing with her toys, not following me around like she used to, not barking and that is her flavorite thing to do. I took her to the vet, they did blood work and said her liver enzymes were some high, and to bring her back in 2 months to check it again. I don't want to wait that long, I believe the earlier they find something the better to treat it. She didn't have a kidney infection, but when she pees in the pee is little brown flakes like cinnamon in her urine. Which our vet said it could be bladder stones forming, but she didn't say anything about treatment. Please I need some info. I have found so much on the internet, it sounds like kidney or liver poblems. Chance is my baby.

03-08-2009, 07:15 PM	#208
Chance Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Clarkrange Posts: 130	Help for Chance Liver enzymes was all she said. What is bile acid test? What will they do to Chance for that? I took her pee pads in with the orange pee and cinnamon like flakes the vet said nothing about ammonia crystals. In Nov. Chance threw up worms. The vet tech said it was tapeworms, but from the books I read it sounded like whipworms, or threadworms. Somethings I read some problems with orange pee can be from worms. I'm really worried about liver and kidney problems how treatable are they.

03-08-2009, 07:42 PM	#210
Ladymom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,317	We had a little Maltese on another forum with liver disease and orange urine. The vet said it was from the high bilirubin that goes along with liver disease (jaundice). Chance needs to have a bile acids test. Here is a link explaining it. It is a very simple and inexpensive test. PSVA and MVD Research Summary __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref...6213341?ref=nf