Poll:Is Breeding a 3 lb and under dog considered cruel?

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by ytsirk27

well..it just goes to show how dumb ppl are and im sorry but if anybody justifies that or breeding a female under 3 pounds . YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR DOGS TAKEN AWAY!!!!!!!!! You obviously dont care about what can happen to her....and for the person that bred there 3 pound female to a 8 pound male ......Need to get some smarts up there in the head instead of air!!!

I agree... and wonder who the ONE VOTE was for breeding tinies...Common sense tells us that it's dangerous... yet I keep seeing posts here and there defending it. The good breeders would not breed tinies - most state it openly and often.

When I see it defended... I just feel so sorry for all the tiny yorkies out there who are being bred just so someone can charge more money.

[cheryl000]

Originally Posted by red98vett

I agree with you Cheryl001 - this is why

SoCalyorkielvr.....you put a disclaimer in your posts.... yet you are always defending breeding of tinies....I don't get it

This is a POLL on how people FEEL - I think the original question was to post our feelings on it and NOT debate. If those are your feelings Kim... then I apologize...but, since you post so much about being Pro-Tiny - I have to really wonder where your feelings really are.

Its no wonder debates are always getting started -

Actually I posted the question so that we can openly talk about it. If that causes a debate then that is fine with me. When I was lookin for a puppy I did not know NOT to go to breeders breeding less than 3 lbs. If we can educate people on reasons why it's wrong, maybe they will know not to buy from breeder who practice this. On the other hand, I would like to know why breeder choose to put their dogs lives in jeopardy.
Socal: The post about the breeding of a "teacup" poodle and a large breed dog sounds kind of ridiculous. The internet is a great thing and a wealth of knowledge, but I don't believe everything I read on it. My cousin's female 7lb dog accidently got out and was mated by a husky. The dog required alot of surgery to fix the damage and the doctor recomended without a doubt a spade and an abortion of the 1 puppy. He did it all for only $50 so I know he wasn't just doing it for money or anything. Every doctor has their own opinion and some doctors are better than others. I'm sure some tiny dogs have had puppies before without any problems. I just feel that forcing a 3 lb dog to carry the babies and give birth is cruel since it will more than likely result in a c-section. If you think spading is not natural, then is a c-section? To make small dogs go through that multiple times shows that a person doesn't care about their dog's welfare. I don't know what I would do if a dog died giving birth just for my own financial gain.

[Passionfruition]

Originally Posted by red98vett

I just feel so sorry for all the tiny yorkies out there who are being bred just so someone can charge more money.

I agree with that! It's so sad!!!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by red98vett

I agree with you Cheryl001 - this is why

SoCalyorkielvr.....you put a disclaimer in your posts.... yet you are always defending breeding of tinies....I don't get it

This is a POLL on how people FEEL - I think the original question was to post our feelings on it and NOT debate. If those are your feelings Kim... then I apologize...but, since you post so much about being Pro-Tiny - I have to really wonder where your feelings really are.

Its no wonder debates are always getting started -

So even with my disclaimer you have to misrepresent my opinion as you have done time and time again. It gets so old correcting your false posts but I will continue to do it as long as you continue to post them.

I have never defended the breeding of tiny females but have merely kept an open mind on the subject until someone presents proof that it is cruel or wrong in some way. I have not seen it. I refuse to take the negative attitude and bash perfectly reputable and well intentioned breeders without some other than forum member's hearsay or the advice of breeders who have never bred a smaller female. These are the only sources who I have ever heard say it is wrong. Vets do not. canine reproductive specialists do not and breeders who breed for tinies do not.

As i stated in my first post....I am undecided on the issue as a result.

Personally, as I have said, I would not risk the lives of one of my pets with a pregnancy no matter what their size, but does that mean I think that yorkie breeders should all have their dogs taken away from them, or that they are just doing it for the money, or they don't care about their dogs as ytsirk27 asserts. ..I realize that people think differently and I accept that. I feel the same about people who over vaccinate their pets, have their tails docked or subject them to routine spaying and neutering. I respect their rights to do these things as the animals caretaker just as I hope others will respect mine.

I have met plenty of awesone and very caring breeders of yorkies and I know for a fact that they care greatly for their babies, and to allege otherwise with an across the board generalization is not only not fair, but really short sighted and negative thinking imo.

The vet in the story I cited from the internet is not just a vet but a reproductive specialist known as a theriogenologist with trememndous credentials and well respected by her peers so I think she knows what she is talking about and I would take her advice over a vet in general practice who chose to abort a puppy because the mother was smaller than the male.

[cheryl000]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

So even with my disclaimer you have to misrepresent my opinion as you have done time and time again. It gets so old correcting your false posts but I will continue to do it as long as you continue to post them.

I have never defended the breeding of tiny females but have merely kept an open mind on the subject until someone presents proof that it is cruel or wrong in some way. I have not seen it. I refuse to take the negative attitude and bash perfectly reputable and well intentioned breeders without some other than forum member's hearsay or the advice of breeders who have never bred a smaller female. These are the only sources who I have ever heard say it is wrong. Vets do not. canine reproductive specialists do not and breeders who breed for tinies do not.

As i stated in my first post....I am undecided on the issue as a result.

Personally, as I have said, I would not risk the lives of one of my pets with a pregnancy no matter what their size, but does that mean I think that yorkie breeders should all have their dogs taken away from them, or that they are just doing it for the money, or they don't care about their dogs as ytsirk27 asserts. ..I realize that people think differently and I accept that. I feel the same about people who over vaccinate their pets, have their tails docked or subject them to routine spaying and neutering. I respect their rights to do these things as the animals caretaker just as I hope others will respect mine.

I have met plenty of awesone and very caring breeders of yorkies and I know for a fact that they care greatly for their babies, and to allege otherwise with an across the board generalization is not only not fair, but really short sighted and negative thinking imo.

The vet in the story I cited from the internet is not just a vet but a reproductive specialist known as a theriogenologist with trememndous credentials and well respected by her peers so I think she knows what she is talking about and I would take her advice over a vet in general practice who chose to abort a puppy because the mother was smaller than the male.

So you are saying you would let your 7 lb dog have the puppies of a husky when a vet recommends terminating the pregnancy for her safety because of what some lady on the internet typed? If it were me I would have terminated the pregnancy.

[Olivier]

I will never use a 3 pounds female for breeding .

[Olivier]

Originally Posted by luvdorkyyorkies

I am undecided.
I have a 3 1/2 lb female bred to a 2 1/2 lb male.
She is due in less then two weeks. She seems happy and content.
If it was cruel I will let you know.

Do you have pictures of your female and pups ?

[troubletb]

WOW, I couldn't even think about breeding a 3lb female, but I'm sure people do. As far as there is a runt in every litter, I agree with that. Bell had three pups- 2 larger, 1 runt. The runt is 5 1/2 months old and he weighs around 3- 3 1/2 lbs. Mom was 8lbs, dad was 5lbs.
If you want smaller puppies use a tiny male and a normal size female.

[rrosenberry]

Just so ya know... I read the poll wrong..... I thought it said WOULD you breed your 3 pound female,,,,, I hit NO ...so void out the second NO on the poll!! Must still be sleeping!

[kewtee]

Vilette and Kim - you are both excellent at not really reading what the other part writes. You both interpret. Stop it already girls, I get so sad when I see you misunderstand each other, since you are both vitamine to this forum

Now shake hands and lets play again

[red98vett]

I understand you Kewtee - I just see so many posts that actually encourage breeding tinies and I just think it's sad...it's nothing personal with Kim - it just happens that she is usually the one posting saying it's ok....yorkies are just so small and we're seeing so many people jumping into the Breeding arena - I just would hate to think someone new would come on this site and see that ONE post saying it's ok...and try their hand in Breeding tinies for $$$ ....because they really are charging some big bucks for them now.

I'm not the only one that posts different views than she does. I see many people who also post to her ... we're all entitled to offer opinions....as is she. But when someone posts with a disclaimer in it first - I do wonder what the reason for that was.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by kewtee

Vilette and Kim - you are both excellent at not really reading what the other part writes. You both interpret. Stop it already girls, I get so sad when I see you misunderstand each other, since you are both vitamine to this forum

Now shake hands and lets play again

I appreciate your attempts to "keep the peace" and I really do try to ignore the bait, but when I get misquoted consistently and have my words twisted constantly, I feel a need to correct it for fear that others will believe the falsehoods being spread about me. Even in her response to you she had to take a couple more jabs and I just wish she would ignore me if she doesn't like my opinions instead of constantly singling me out.

Villette~Once again, the disclaimer was to share information with the members here without having someone think that I was in support of breeding tinies which I am not. And I am not the ONLY ONE who is undecided and keeping an open mind about this issue. There are plenty of breeders and others on here who are doing the same and looking for answers. In fact there are 10 who answered this anonymous poll "undecided" so please quit misrepresenting things. It's not in the best interests of this forum or it' members. Ignore me if you cannot read my posts without respect for my opinions but do not twist my words, misquote and misrepresent what I am trying to say.

[txshopper73]

Kim~not taking jabs at you or anything like that but so that you have an idea where some people are coming from.

You've made statements about talking to reproduction specialists and that they said it's okay to breed a tiny and that the risk isn't any different from breeding a bigger dog. Then you said that you would never breed your dogs no matter how big they get and then you go back and want people to give you proof that breeding tinies is riskier than breeding a larger dog and then the circle starts all over again.

I know that you've said you think it's a risk with any dog but then when someone comes here and tries to sell a pup when the mom was 3 lbs and dad was 8 pounds (too bad the thread was completely deleted), you go and defend the breeder. You've defended a few people here that have bred tinies. You've defended the "guilty" and wonder why people misinterpret what you say.

[PlatinumYorkies]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

I appreciate your attempts to "keep the peace" and I really do try to ignore the bait, but when I get misquoted consistently and have my words twisted constantly, I feel a need to correct it for fear that others will believe the falsehoods being spread about me. Even in her response to you she had to take a couple more jabs and I just wish she would ignore me if she doesn't like my opinions instead of constantly singling me out.

Villette~Once again, the disclaimer was to share information with the members here without having someone think that I was in support of breeding tinies which I am not. And I am not the ONLY ONE who is undecided and keeping an open mind about this issue. There are plenty of breeders and others on here who are doing the same and looking for answers. In fact there are 10 who answered this anonymous poll "undecided" so please quit misrepresenting things. It's not in the best interests of this forum or it' members. Ignore me if you cannot read my posts without respect for my opinions but do not twist my words, misquote and misrepresent what I am trying to say.

Actually Kim, you are misrepresenting yourself here...It is not just a thing of someone coming after you and your view's on tinies...You have came after me for my opinion, then called me ignorant. I just walked away...I didn't twist your words then, nor was I nasty to you!! Everyone has a right to their opinions, however there is never a reason to shove your's down someone's throat!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

Kim~not taking jabs at you or anything like that but so that you have an idea where some people are coming from.

You've made statements about talking to reproduction specialists and that they said it's okay to breed a tiny and that the risk isn't any different from breeding a bigger dog. Then you said that you would never breed your dogs no matter how big they get and then you go back and want people to give you proof that breeding tinies is riskier than breeding a larger dog and then the circle starts all over again.

I know that you've said you think it's a risk with any dog but then when someone comes here and tries to sell a pup when the mom was 3 lbs and dad was 8 pounds (too bad the thread was completely deleted), you go and defend the breeder. You've defended a few people here that have bred tinies. You've defended the "guilty" and wonder why people misinterpret what you say.

You know very well that that was a typo and it was corrected by the breeder. The male was 3 lbs and the female was 8 lbs!

I too am disappointed that the thread was deleted as that was a perfect example of a few members taking a breeder's adoption thread and turning it totally off topic into a discussion about the rightness or wrongness of breeding tinies. It was not fair in my opinion. Some even had the gall to call him a liar when he posted the correction!!!

And, even though I don't breed and probably never will, I do not think there is anything wrong with researching breeding issues since I am a breed fancier and will probably adopt more yorkies in my life time. I want to know whether or not it is cruel, bad or harmful in some way to breed 3 lbers or 4 lbers or 5 lbers for that matter, and whether artificial insemination is better, whether a bottle fed pup from a c-section has as strong an immune system as a puppy who was nursed, etc. To criticize me for searching out this information and sharing it here makes no sense unless no one else comes here to learn about yorkies. I thought that is what this forum is for. If I buy another yorkie, I want to know that it had the very best start in life.

And I think most members here respect my opinions even if they do not agree with them, and they do not think that I am overly forceful with my opinions.

I found it strange when I discovered canine theriogenologists through my research in this area, that none of the breeders on here had ever even mentioned such a specialist. If I were breeding I would be like Yorkierini and use a reproductive specialist. Yorkies are especially difficult dogs to breed and general vets do not know much about breeding.

Now, if someone has a fact wrong, I will politely correct it, as I did when PlatinumYorkies said the breed standard says yorkies should be between 4 and 7 lbs when what it actually says is that they should be under 7 lbs. I did it politely and non offensively and I did not call her ignorant as she claims. I am not like that and most of the members here recognize that.