Zimmerman Affidavit of Probable Cause

[Britster]

It's someone's opinion. And honestly? If someone posted "black kids get the short end of the stick" - I guarantee nobody would be as "disturbed". Most would probably agree with the notion. I was in middle and high school not that long ago, and black kids could say anything about white kids... "white trash" "cracker" whatever. But if you said anything about a black kid, all hell broke loose. The double standard just cracks me up. And then you would have those young blacks who would pull the "It's because I'm black" card. They would be acting up in class, not listening, teacher would yell at them, and they would say they were being singled out because they were black. Uh, no, it's because you were acting like an idiot and unfortunately, happen to be only one of two black kids in the class. Then the teacher would feel like she couldn't even punish them, for fear of being crucified or labeled as a racist. In middle school, 95% of my friends were black. I loved them! We were no different, they treated me just like they would anyone and I did the same. I hung out with skaters, goths, preps, athletes, and everyone in between.

Of course racism still exists... in EVERY race. There's going to be whites who hate anyone that's NOT white, blacks that hate Mexicans, blacks that hate whites, whatever. It's true what Taylor said tho. IF there was a white kid killed under the same circumstances by a black adult, I highly doubt that there would be white groups running around protesting all over the US. If there were, it surely wouldn't be shown on mainstream news because it's so Un-PC.

Race issues aside, because as much as people want to make it seem like it's NOT, it has turned into a race issue... but there had been suspicious activity in this neighborhood before, break-ins, etc. And if a neighborhood watchmen is seeing a young man (who did not live there, so was NOT a normal occurrence going on) and was suspicious, he has every right to be. He definitely made a bad decision, IMO. I don't think he handled as he should have from what I've heard. But I just don't think it's right to label Trayvon as a perfect kid and Zimmerman has an evil monster until we can hear all the facts. If Zimmerman had been attacked by him, then yeah he did have a right to protect himself. A gun perhaps wasn't the brightest idea, I would think there could be another weapon less deadly you could carry around.

[Wylie's Mom]

My biggest contention with this issue has nothing to do w/ race. What stands out to me is that the police told Zimmerman to NOT follow Trayvon, and he disobeyed that instruction. If a confrontation happened, I think that puts a whole lot of fault on Zimmerman. If someone was following anyone, a confrontation can very will be provoked...black, white, whatever.

My other main contention is that he was carrying a gun in the first place. It seems the neighborhood had no idea or intention that their 'watchman' would be carrying a weapon. If it was his sole decision to do this, that needs to be examined.

[gidget529]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

But that wasn't why he got shot. He got shot because he was bashing Zimmermans head into the ground.

As LJ said, you don't know that. Also, Zimmerman was acting as the aggressor - following Trayvon when he was told not to, carrying a weapon, taking the law into his own hands (as Ann stated).

I think this brings out unresolved race issues in some ppl and gets the discussion off of the facts at hand. I am sorry some have felt discrimination; however, many of us have. Some have felt discrimination bc of race, religion, weight, gender, stature, and some bc they are ppl who suffer from medical conditions in a world that glorifies health. It has happened to virtually all of us at one time or another.

You cannot play "cops and robbers" w loaded weapons in your neighborhood. I don't care if you are a magistrate's son or not. I don't care if there were previous thefts or not. Vigilanteism is against the law. Period. That is what we have paid police forces for - to protect and to serve.

[LunasMomma]

Originally Posted by gidget529

As LJ said, you don't know that. Also, Zimmerman was acting as the aggressor - following Trayvon when he was told not to, carrying a weapon, taking the law into his own hands (as Ann stated).

I think this brings out unresolved race issues in some ppl and gets the discussion off of the facts at hand. I am sorry some have felt discrimination; however, many of us have. Some have felt discrimination bc of race, religion, weight, gender, stature, and some bc they are ppl who suffer from medical conditions in a world that glorifies health. It has happened to virtually all of us at one time or another.

You cannot play "cops and robbers" w loaded weapons in your neighborhood. I don't care if you are a magistrate's son or not. I don't care if there were previous thefts or not. Vigilanteism is against the law. Period. That is what we have paid police forces for - to protect and to serve.

You expressed what I was thinking, exactly! Just wanted to add, that not all "racists" are out there and openly racist. They do what they have to do to stay undercover. My own MOTHER is extremely racist and used to work with many black people and got along with them very well. But behind closed doors, was another matter I used to play with two little black children when I was about 5 or 6 and she used to call me names over it, that I will not repeat here. I decided right then and there that I would not be like her in any way. I'm not saying 100% that Mr Z is a racist, but I bet that if that was a white kid walking his neighborhood, he probably would have driven on and not even noticed him, since that community seems to be mostly white folks. I know many undercover racists that volunteer for organizations that serve the largely black communities here. So just because he was nice to his neighbors and worked with black children, does not mean he is not a racist, kwim? We really can't know either way, I guess.

I'm glad that all can express how they feel about this situation and remain respectful. That's what makes a great community

[yorkietalkjilly]

There is the other thinking about carrying a gun on watch - should only the criminals be the ones to carry them? They all have guns all the time. And with so many teenagers and now even occasionally school-age children with guns, it becomes a concern. When we ask someone to go out and look for potential criminals in a neighborhood - any neighborhood, is it fair to expect only that person patrolling to be without a gun? What if he should run into a criminal who is planning to or has just robbed and knows he's been seen & pulls his gun out? That's my concern, that the bad guys always have weapons and usually shoot first. I sure don't agree with every citizen walking around with a gun in their pocket or purse either and I'm too scared of guns to carry one but if you are putting yourself out there among where criminals have been robbing, knowing they carry guns, wouldn't you be scared to death to walk around and wonder if you'll fun afoul of one and have no one there to help you in that emergency situation?

[yorkietalkjilly]

Don't know if it's true, but one of Zimmerman's ex-lawyers in that news conference they held, said he had withdrawn, that the police dispatcher then asked him to get the block address where he saw the young man then walking and he went back for that and that was when Trayvon turned on him. I've not heard any of the news stories pick that statement up and repeat that and I heard that explanation with my own ears. I just wonder if the news reports we are hearing are all one-sided after that.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

But that wasn't why he got shot. He got shot because he was bashing Zimmermans head into the ground.

Let's face it guys - none of us know what really happened. Heck, my Lucy knows as much about what will come to light in Discovery as we all do. Unless you are one of the attorneys involved in the case and privy to all the information to date - you cannot know this.

I know only that an unarmed young man was shot - by someone carrying a gun. That the local police declined to do ANY investigation until there was media involvement and a public outcry.

Hopefully, we will learn the rest througout the trial or what information either side decides to leak.

[yorkietalkjilly]

I agree, Ringo1, with largely only one side being reported, how can anybody know what happened until we get some forensics and evidence of what investigation shows. Local police seemed to care less a young man was dead and from what I've heard of their investigation, it was extremely limited. You would think when a shooting has occurred, a full investigation would be absolutely mandatory. Again, maybe I'm getting only one side but haven't heard much of anything that they did, only what wasn't done.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Because the enhanced video of Zimmerman showed cuts on the back of his head.

And that is proof to you that Trayvon did it?

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

Let's face it guys - none of us know what really happened. Heck, my Lucy knows as much about what will come to light in Discovery as we all do. Unless you are one of the attorneys involved in the case and privy to all the information to date - you cannot know this.

I know only that an unarmed young man was shot - by someone carrying a gun. That the local police declined to do ANY investigation until there was media involvement and a public outcry.

Hopefully, we will learn the rest througout the trial or what information either side decides to leak.

Exactly!

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by Britster

It's someone's opinion. And honestly? If someone posted "black kids get the short end of the stick" - I guarantee nobody would be as "disturbed". Most would probably agree with the notion. I was in middle and high school not that long ago, and black kids could say anything about white kids... "white trash" "cracker" whatever. But if you said anything about a black kid, all hell broke loose. The double standard just cracks me up. And then you would have those young blacks who would pull the "It's because I'm black" card. They would be acting up in class, not listening, teacher would yell at them, and they would say they were being singled out because they were black. Uh, no, it's because you were acting like an idiot and unfortunately, happen to be only one of two black kids in the class. Then the teacher would feel like she couldn't even punish them, for fear of being crucified or labeled as a racist. In middle school, 95% of my friends were black. I loved them! We were no different, they treated me just like they would anyone and I did the same. I hung out with skaters, goths, preps, athletes, and everyone in between.

Of course racism still exists... in EVERY race. There's going to be whites who hate anyone that's NOT white, blacks that hate Mexicans, blacks that hate whites, whatever. It's true what Taylor said tho. IF there was a white kid killed under the same circumstances by a black adult, I highly doubt that there would be white groups running around protesting all over the US. If there were, it surely wouldn't be shown on mainstream news because it's so Un-PC.

Race issues aside, because as much as people want to make it seem like it's NOT, it has turned into a race issue... but there had been suspicious activity in this neighborhood before, break-ins, etc. And if a neighborhood watchmen is seeing a young man (who did not live there, so was NOT a normal occurrence going on) and was suspicious, he has every right to be. He definitely made a bad decision, IMO. I don't think he handled as he should have from what I've heard. But I just don't think it's right to label Trayvon as a perfect kid and Zimmerman has an evil monster until we can hear all the facts. If Zimmerman had been attacked by him, then yeah he did have a right to protect himself. A gun perhaps wasn't the brightest idea, I would think there could be another weapon less deadly you could carry around.

I agree

I live in Miami, Travone was from Miami. Many of our students staged a "walk out" to protest that justice was not served. The kids from a local high school trashed a local mall and a few stores. As I told my students, it is sad beyond words that a kid died. He seamed to me a normal kids.. not 100% perfect .. a kid... if my child had died I would not want them to be remembered as the reason a town was trashed... how does stealing a TV help the "cause" of justice?... I would rather my child be remembered for good.

Yes.. PC is not equal. I have to remember my dd... a fellow student called her a cracker one time (it is not a complement here) she turned and looked at them and said "well, if I am a cracker you are a graham cracker"...I loved her response!!!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Britster

IF there was a white kid killed under the same circumstances by a black adult, I highly doubt that there would be white groups running around protesting all over the US. If there were, it surely wouldn't be shown on mainstream news because it's so Un-PC.

.

I totally disagree with you on this one. I can tell you this much: IF my caucasian, unarmed son were killed by ANYONE and the person was not arrested....or even drug and/or alcohol screened I would have PLENTY of people protesting and mainstream media would be running with it. AND...I will bet it would have happened a lot faster than four weeks plus later.

The issue is that the man killed the kid and walked out of that police station. Do tell me that you think that makes sense. They drug screened Trayvon from what I understand...what about the shooter? They just took his word for things? Crazy.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Britster

It's someone's opinion. And honestly? If someone posted "black kids get the short end of the stick" - I guarantee nobody would be as "disturbed". Most would probably agree with the notion. I was in middle and high school not that long ago, and black kids could say anything about white kids... "white trash" "cracker" whatever. But if you said anything about a black kid, all hell broke loose. The double standard just cracks me up. And then you would have those young blacks who would pull the "It's because I'm black" card. They would be acting up in class, not listening, teacher would yell at them, and they would say they were being singled out because they were black. Uh, no, it's because you were acting like an idiot and unfortunately, happen to be only one of two black kids in the class. Then the teacher would feel like she couldn't even punish them, for fear of being crucified or labeled as a racist. In middle school, 95% of my friends were black. I loved them! We were no different, they treated me just like they would anyone and I did the same. I hung out with skaters, goths, preps, athletes, and everyone in between.

Of course racism still exists... in EVERY race. There's going to be whites who hate anyone that's NOT white, blacks that hate Mexicans, blacks that hate whites, whatever. It's true what Taylor said tho. IF there was a white kid killed under the same circumstances by a black adult, I highly doubt that there would be white groups running around protesting all over the US. If there were, it surely wouldn't be shown on mainstream news because it's so Un-PC.Race issues aside, because as much as people want to make it seem like it's NOT, it has turned into a race issue... but there had been suspicious activity in this neighborhood before, break-ins, etc. And if a neighborhood watchmen is seeing a young man (who did not live there, so was NOT a normal occurrence going on) and was suspicious, he has every right to be. He definitely made a bad decision, IMO. I don't think he handled as he should have from what I've heard. But I just don't think it's right to label Trayvon as a perfect kid and Zimmerman has an evil monster until we can hear all the facts. If Zimmerman had been attacked by him, then yeah he did have a right to protect himself. A gun perhaps wasn't the brightest idea, I would think there could be another weapon less deadly you could carry around.

I'm really shocked by the statement, black crime against white has always been taken much more seriously. I don't even think the cops would have done anything about this if there hadn't been an outcry. I'm not lableing anyone anything, there are NO perfect kids, black or white. This guy should not have been using a gun to patrol his neigborhood, and when he reported it, they told him not to follow. He is the one who did not do what the police told him to do. Even if, Trayvon fought him, he probably was scared for his life. I wouldn't feel any better if Trayvon had been killed with a bully club.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lil Sis

I agree

I live in Miami, Travone was from Miami. Many of our students staged a "walk out" to protest that justice was not served. The kids from a local high school trashed a local mall and a few stores. As I told my students, it is sad beyond words that a kid died. He seamed to me a normal kids.. not 100% perfect .. a kid... if my child had died I would not want them to be remembered as the reason a town was trashed... how does stealing a TV help the "cause" of justice?... I would rather my child be remembered for good.

Yes.. PC is not equal. I have to remember my dd... a fellow student called her a cracker one time (it is not a complement here) she turned and looked at them and said "well, if I am a cracker you are a graham cracker"...I loved her response!!!

People in groups do a lot of crazy things. Look at what happened recently when Kentucky won the basketball tournament.

This has nothing to do with this case.

The parents have been really classy about the entire matter...all they want is justice and they have not called for ANY rioting or lynching. They have every right to speak up about what they feel is an injustice.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Cuts can be manufactured & so can reports of eye or earwitnesses and even ex-lawyers. And forensics can be sullied, inconclusive and affected by sloppy crime-scene or lab work. I hope a clear picture of what happened will come out if there is more to the story.