Is this a rape or not??

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Mom to Hot Rod

As for the original question of this thread, would I call what happened rape? Probably not. Did she deserve what happened to her? Absolutely not if she did not want it to. But did she do anything that would indicate to the man that she did not want him to do what he did?

I have never found myself in this position but I could think of one thing that would give him a solid idea that I did not want his advances...a swift kick in the groin. And I'd like to think that I would not find myself driven out to a remote area with someone I did not want to be there with.

The woman was probably too scared to try to hurt him for fear he would really, really hurt her in retaliation but that is where people like you and me differ. I don't have the good sense to think of those kinds of things when somebody begins to try to intimidate or force me - I get mad and I strike out like you would - thereby probably setting myself up for real injury or death from a much stronger adversary! My "no" means "no" and I'm probably going to go down shouting it.

[McheleM]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

The woman was probably too scared to try to hurt him for fear he would really, really hurt her in retaliation but that is where people like you and me differ. I don't have the good sense to think of those kinds of things when somebody begins to try to intimidate or force me - I get mad and I strike out like you would - thereby probably setting myself up for real injury or death from a much stronger adversary! My "no" means "no" and I'm probably going to go down shouting it.

But the girl never said no. And a defense attorney would jump all over that fact, as well as try to pad a jury with other men and women who feel if you don't make you intentions known, you can't come back and complain.
It's like ordering hot cocoa with whipped cream, not telling the clerk no whipped cream and then complaining about the whipped cream.
As sad as it is, that's the world we live in. Innocent until proven guilty. And the victims often pay worse than the criminals.

I'm still going back to the "we don't know either of the people in question, and we are getting the info 3rd party from someone who hasn't returned to comment"

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by McheleM

But the girl never said no. And a defense attorney would jump all over that fact, as well as try to pad a jury with other men and women who feel if you don't make you intentions known, you can't come back and complain.
It's like ordering hot cocoa with whipped cream, not telling the clerk no whipped cream and then complaining about the whipped cream.
As sad as it is, that's the world we live in. Innocent until proven guilty. And the victims often pay worse than the criminals.

I'm still going back to the "we don't know either of the people in question, and we are getting the info 3rd party from someone who hasn't returned to comment"

Oh, I didn't know that for sure. Well, unless she can help a prosecutor to prove an actual or implied threat so severe she was in fear for her life and afraid to say "no" or resist, the police are unlikely to open a case nor the D.A.'s office likely to try to charge the man.

[lovespandp]

Wow the OP has yet to come back huh- That's interesting. She has logged in too.

[Nancy1999]

I know this happened in Iceland, not the United States, but the FBI just changed the definition of rape in January. It use to be you were required to fight back or put up a struggle, not so anymore.

The revised definition includes any gender of victim or perpetrator, and includes instances in which the victim is incapable of giving consent because of temporary or permanent mental or physical incapacity, including due to the influence of drugs or alcohol or because of age. The ability of the victim to give consent must be determined in accordance with state statute. Physical resistance from the victim is not required to demonstrate lack of consent. The new definition does not change federal or state criminal codes or impact charging and prosecution on the local level. FBI — Attorney General Eric Holder Announces Revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s Definition of Rape.

If a girl goes alone with everything, I would assume that's giving consent, but there’s always extenuating circumstances. Regardless, the girl needs to talk to someone, because I'm sure she hurts whether it was the legal definition of a rape or not.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I know this happened in Iceland, not the United States, but the FBI just changed the definition of rape in January. It use to be you were required to fight back or put up a struggle, not so anymore.





If a girl goes alone with everything, I would assume that's giving consent, but there’s always extenuating circumstances. Regardless, the girl needs to talk to someone, because I'm sure she hurts whether it was the legal definition of a rape or not.

Thats the thing we were given such limited info its hard to say how far the girl went in giving consent or not. Hopefully she got legal advice and hopefully she gets counciling

[yorkietalkjilly]

But unless the woman can demonstrate somehow or prove some type of threat that kept her from resisting or being too afraid to say no or otherwise indicate she did not want intercourse, in this case, how was the man to know she wasn't consenting unless the law now requires her verbal/written consent. Otherwise, couldn't the man say her consent was implied by the lack of resistance/negative verbal/physical indicators?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

But unless the woman can demonstrate somehow or prove some type of threat that kept her from resisting or being too afraid to say no or otherwise indicate she did not want intercourse, in this case, how was the man to know she wasn't consenting unless the law now requires her verbal/written consent. Otherwise, couldn't the man say her consent was implied by the lack of resistance/negative verbal/physical indicators?

That's what I was wondering too. I know of one case where the guy was stupid enough to say, he didn't want to see the girl again, and it was just a one night stand, and because the girl’s friends knew she was going out with a well-known man, she yelled rape instead of saying she consented and was humiliated, or at least that's my take of the Tyson case.

[McheleM]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

That's what I was wondering too. I know of one case where the guy was stupid enough to say, he didn't want to see the girl again, and it was just a one night stand, and because the girl’s friends knew she was going out with a well-known man, she yelled rape instead of saying she consented and was humiliated, or at least that's my take of the Tyson case.

That's always my take on the 'pro football, pro basketball, pro hockey, pro whatever sport' rape cases. Honestly, why would those guys need to rape a girl when so many will say yes, or play the pretend to say no game anyway?
The majority of those cases are a fluke (not saying 100% are) and are done by catty, insecure girls who can't stand that they were replaced or shot down.