Is this a rape or not??

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by dawn27

This discussion could go on for days... so I will say my peace now and be done with it.

Two of my close friends and my sister were all raped by a so called men who were "in charge".

One, by a so called friend and her fiances best friend.

One, who was only 14 and raped by a neighbor. Who on August 16, 1975 gave birth to a baby boy at the age of 15 yrs old. Later to be found that her rapist was the father.

The other a 50 yrs old church going women by a man very well know in the medical community who she had dated for a short time. This was her first relationship after being divorce for more than ten years. She had every intentions of keeping her purity and remaining celibate.

Three very different circumstances where the man was in charge.... !! None of them reported the crime.

I myself have been in a few situations where the man wanted something form me that I was not willing to give. But it did not stop them from trying to force me. I was one of the lucky ones, I had a little more fight in me than some do. I refuse to give up my "right" my "choice" to say NO.

You missed my point, I'm certainly not saying any women should want a man who's "in charge", I can't stand that type of man, but it is a message men learn. I've heard women say they wouldn't date a man if he "asked" for a kiss, that that is such a "turn off". Women have to take some of the responsibility for what happens. We can't legislate morality, these things are wrong, but they aren't necessarily illegal. Many women are brought up to be people pleasers, and little girls are even brought up to be seductive, we need to teach our young women that it's okay to say no, and they have value beyond sex.

In the case you are talking about where the person is underage that is statutory rape and apparently incest, both serious crimes that should be reported. In the other cases you mentioned, did the women protest, did they say “no”? Or were they willing, but just didn’t want to make trouble, and things got a little out of hand? If you don’t protest in any way, I don’t see how it’s a crime, except where as Chachi mentioned of someone not mentally capable of giving consent, and those cases where the victim is underage.


By the way, a man's profession, doesn't give us much information on whether we can trust him, so just because someone is in the medical profession or even the clergy, we have to use our God given woman's intuition, about their true character.

[lynzy420]

I believe that aside from mental defect, that obviously this girl perceived danger, that fear was instilled in her by some means...enough so that she did not or could not or was to afraid to protest..otherwise we wouldn't have a girl feeling raped...any sex that is forced either through fear or violence IS RAPE.

[dawn27]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

You missed my point, I'm certainly not saying any women should want a man who's "in charge", I can't stand that type of man, but it is a message men learn. I've heard women say they wouldn't date a man if he "asked" for a kiss, that that is such a "turn off". Women have to take some of the responsibility for what happens. We can't legislate morality, these things are wrong, but they aren't necessarily illegal. Many women are brought up to be people pleasers, and little girls are even brought up to be seductive, we need to teach our young women that it's okay to say no, and they have value beyond sex.

In the case you are talking about where the person is underage that is statutory rape and apparently incest, both serious crimes that should be reported. In the other cases you mentioned, did the women protest, did they say “no”? Or were they willing, but just didn’t want to make trouble, and things got a little out of hand? If you don’t protest in any way, I don’t see how it’s a crime, except where as Chachi mentioned of someone not mentally capable of giving consent, and those cases where the victim is underage.

By the way, a man's profession, doesn't give us much information on whether we can trust him, so just because someone is in the medical profession or even the clergy, we have to use our God given woman's intuition, about their true character.

Sorry, maybe I did miss the point.

And yes I can say with everything that I believe in that all three of the women said NO and tried to fight them off ! I am very close with these women... my best friend and my sister and my neighbor who I've known for 25 yrs.

There is no question in my mind. I grew up with the two men (brothers) who raped my best friend and my sister. One of them was one of the men who tried to force himself on me.

[AllDogBoots]

Did she say "no" or "stop"?

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

You missed my point, I'm certainly not saying any women should want a man who's "in charge", I can't stand that type of man, but it is a message men learn. I've heard women say they wouldn't date a man if he "asked" for a kiss, that that is such a "turn off". Women have to take some of the responsibility for what happens. We can't legislate morality, these things are wrong, but they aren't necessarily illegal. Many women are brought up to be people pleasers, and little girls are even brought up to be seductive, we need to teach our young women that it's okay to say no, and they have value beyond sex.

In the case you are talking about where the person is underage that is statutory rape and apparently incest, both serious crimes that should be reported. In the other cases you mentioned, did the women protest, did they say “no”? Or were they willing, but just didn’t want to make trouble, and things got a little out of hand? If you don’t protest in any way, I don’t see how it’s a crime, except where as Chachi mentioned of someone not mentally capable of giving consent, and those cases where the victim is underage.


By the way, a man's profession, doesn't give us much information on whether we can trust him, so just because someone is in the medical profession or even the clergy, we have to use our God given woman's intuition, about their true character.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by dawn27

Sorry, maybe I did miss the point.

And yes I can say with everything that I believe in that all three of the women said NO and tried to fight them off ! I am very close with these women... my best friend and my sister and my neighbor who I've known for 25 yrs.

There is no question in my mind. I grew up with the two men (brothers) who raped my best friend and my sister. One of them was one of the men who tried to force himself on me.

In this situation it wasnt said that force was used just that she was afraid. Im sorry I just dont think that could hold up in court. If she were mentally impared I would see how it would but otherwise she could have said no and they would be able to establish force was used. How would any man know you were afraid if they didnt use force and you didnt say no or try to get away from him. Rape is a serious crime and it needs to be treated seriously. If there werent any way to establish if force was used many men in dATing situations gone bad could unjustly be accused of rape. Im sorry this girl didnt have the self esteem to say no but she needs concilling with that or she could find herself in this situation alot.

[MikaTallulah]

This is date rape. She will need lots of support and couciling. This was not her fault she needs to know this.

[jmdt]

She didn't say "no" as someone else stated. He is not a mind reader. Not sure if she needs counceling for the incident or maybe she needs a class in assertiveness. You cant be all meek and quiet. He probably didn't even know she felt uncomfortable with this. She was scared so she did it??? Come on I don't believe it. Does every guy have to get a written concent form first???

As a parent of 2 boys and 2 girls this is my opinion on the whole situation. Her life is not ruined by this but his could potentially be ruined by such an accusation.

[gemy]

Well whether this is Iceland or INdia, or south of the Magnus line; this girl/woman is going to need help

Whether she has a legal leg to stand on in Iceland should be pursued with the support of her family and friends. At the very least she will bring this man to the attention of the authorities.

How-ever legalities aside, I suspect this woman is going to need a whole lot of help, and a way to find her voice.

And for all the men here, the numbers are very sobering, at least one in three woman have been abused by the time they are woman..... At least these are N.A. statistics.

Saying No, is said if different ways, and not just by voice alone.

[dawn27]

Come on Really ...

Is this what you would say to your own daughters if they had a simular situation... is this solid advise to give a women who has just been traumatized?

Sorry, its not rape because you didn't say No
Sorry... get some self esteem.
Sorry... you feel violated because the man cant read your mind!!

[lovespandp]

Well what did he say when they left the coffee place? Sounds fishy to me- If she didn’t want to she could have said no, I don’t buy the whole “she was scared” She wasn’t too scared to get in the car with him alone was she? Unless in the middle of the act she said No, or stop or made it obvious she didn’t want to do it to him then I wouldn’t consider it Rape.


This whole things is fishy to me, why would someone post this? Why hasn’t the OP came back on- If she was really concerned for her “Friend” you would think she would have came back on-

[chachi]

Originally Posted by dawn27

Come on Really ...

Is this what you would say to your own daughters if they had a simular situation... is this solid advise to give a women who has just been traumatized?

Sorry, its not rape because you didn't say No
Sorry... get some self esteem.
Sorry... you feel violated because the man cant read your mind!!

It is what I would tell my daughter because men have rights too and no man should be expected to read a womens mind that she didnt want to have sex yet actively participated in it which told him she did want it. Its like someone said if she were afraid of him why did she leave the coffee shop with him. Im sorry but as the OP has explained the story it was not rape.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by lovespandp

Well what did he say when they left the coffee place? Sounds fishy to me- If she didn’t want to she could have said no, I don’t buy the whole “she was scared” She wasn’t too scared to get in the car with him alone was she? Unless in the middle of the act she said No, or stop or made it obvious she didn’t want to do it to him then I wouldn’t consider it Rape.


This whole things is fishy to me, why would someone post this? Why hasn’t the OP came back on- If she was really concerned for her “Friend” you would think she would have came back on-

I agree this just doesnt pass the smell test.

[lovespandp]

Originally Posted by chachi

I agree this just doesnt pass the smell test.

No it doesnt.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by chachi

I dont think this is rape she because she consented she wasnt unconcious or in a situation that she couldnt say no. She needs to get concilling to build her self esteem and self worth

Cha chi. REally not in a situation she couldn't say no. She lived in ICELAND. Probably 5-10 minute drive in any direction into wilderness. What is Iceland's pop maybe 360-400,000?

Have you ever been in the wilderness? Let's see Iceland in winter at -30 to 40 degree below zero, frostbite in 5minutes, hypothermia in 10 minutes.

This boy/man picks her up for coffee and instead of taking her to the Icleandic equivalent of star bucks, drives off (not too far) to the country

So what is she to do? Take me home? Awh come on now sweetie, no worries, let's just see the Northern Lights.

Does she REALLY have the option to say STOP let me out here? Sure if she wants to die in the cold.

So yeah I can see how she was in a situation that she would put her life in danger by saying NO