Vent-what would you do??

[McheleM]

I am a skin mom of a 20 yr old, an 18 yr old and a 15 yr old. I have rules and understandings at my house, and for some reason lately it's like nothing matters.....
Case in point. My 15 yr old likes to take it upon himself to do things. (IE put together a book shelf, try to change the oil in the lawnmower, etc) He has been told on numerous occasions that we don't want him to do these things and to please not do them- and the main reason is because he refuses to read instructions or do things correctly and whatever it is ends up messed up, broke, etc. We require him to take out the trash (which he doesn't do) and keep his room clean (which he doesn't do) and keep his laundry washed, dried and put up (which he doesn't do). I got up yesterday and he was trying to put together a book shelf I bought to make an armoire for the dogs. The reason I got up is because it sounded like he dropped it. I asked what he was doing and he told me putting this together, and of course looks at me like I'm an idiot for asking. I explained that the bookshelf/armoire was my project and that I planned to do it myself and I didn't want him to put it together.
My husband told me last night that he did in fact drop one of the panels and that it actually broke. It's one of those pressed wood shelves, but he wasn't paying attention to what he was doing, he didn't even have the instructions or screws out, and I am now out a bookshelf. My kitchen is a mess because I pulled out all the dogs stuff and started rearranging it to put their new armoire and now I don't have one to put their stuff in.
I could take it back to target and exchange it but I feel horrible telling the, it's broke, knowing HE broke it. I feel like that's stealing from them, and also feel like theres no repercussions for him if I do that. I can wait on him to come up with the 70.00 the shelf cost me and go by another one, but I really don't want to wait because I doubt he'll come up with the money and the dogs will be at rainbow bridge from old age before I ever got the armoire built.

What would you do? I need suggestions and an outside perspective. This isn't the first time something like this has happened. I know he was just trying to help, but he's been asked not to on several ocassions. I am an OCD type person, so obviously the clutter in the kitchen is driving me nuts right now-i was thinking of making him rearrange all their stuff and put it away for now, but that just doesn't seem severe enough, if that makes sense.

Ugh!! Being a parent is hard!!

[rtsmichele]

Buy a new one and take away some of his privileges (does he have a cell phone, computer access, TV time?) until he pays for the bookshelf.

Being a parent is hard but you have to make them follow some rules and know there is consequences if they don't and then follow through with those consequences.

You also have to have your husband back you. Your kids have to see that you two are a team and that you work together.

Good luck!!

[capt_noonie]

I don't have kids but I remember being a teenager not too long ago. I'm 31 btw. Seems like your son was like me when I was a kid. Taking stuff apart just curious to see how it all went, but not remembering how to put it back. Trying to create new stuff out of old junk, I was in awe of the insides of a betamax player. LOL I am a creative, visual, hands on type person, do you think your son is this type as well? I did stuff like that, but my room was always a mess (always in mid project) I hated doing the dishes, etc, but was always working on something. If he is, I would not punish him for being creative or him trying to help, but punish him for breaking the shelf. Don't make it seem like it was YOUR project and yours alone, may make him feel shunned, like don't touch my stuff! Perhaps work on a project together, and show him how to do it correctly. Or if your dh can show him the correct way to service the lawn mower. Seems like he's gonna do it no matter what, at least show him the right way.

As far as punishment, I agree with rtsmichele take away some priviledges until you feel it's enough, and that you and dh have to work as a team.

How are the other two kids? Do they team up with eachother, and the youngest feels left out? My older sis and younger bro were always teamed up and ignored me, which is why I ended up taking all these strange hobbies and interests.

[My lil friend]

I still have a 20yrold,18yrold and 16yrold at the house too,go us. I tell my children that if I ask then do,if I dont ask then DONT. If you are home and he is home,he might spend some time working in the yard first thing every morning. You cannt break anything hand watering the yard,been there done that too.
My oldest (now 26) became an apprentise at the age of 15 to a remodeler,so he could learn to FIX properly,not be in my house driving me nuts during the day and was to tired to do anything except his school work when he came home.
Classes at the local community college can be taken for continued education. These are adult classes but he can learn small engines,computers and cars,,and again he will be doing something useful besides "FIXING" things at your house.
Maybe you NEED some closets rearranged? Pull everything out and tell him what you want,just keep him away from the glass stuff on the shelves. My now 18yr old son has managed to chip every pyrex 9X13 that I own,they were all in good shape until 2 or 3 years ago and started out as wedding gifts from 1980 (he is the 5th child to handle this stuff and the only one to break it). Unless he hates the kitchen,let him learn to cook. I couldnt do this,my 20yrold daughter owns the kitchen and I was afraid that the son would burn the house down. Some young men just have a VERY HEAVY hand,even when they try to be careful.

[McheleM]

Hubby is on board with whatever. He and i usually discuss punishmentsand things, hes just at his whits end too.

The bad part is when someone tries to teach him, or correct him, he refuses to listen. My husband is a plumber and takes him with him to work in the summers- he refuses to listen when my husband tells him how to do something. He gets an "I already know how attitude" and it irritates my husband to no end! My husband has been plumbing for 18 years and learned at the side of his dad, how to do plumbing properly. He owns his own business and needs things to be done correctly and cant afford yo go back and redo things. Time is money..... My son has only lived with us 3 yrs. Before that he lived with his biological father and his dad never did anything with him?
We have tried to explain things, and use them as teaching tools (like the lawnmower) and even took him shopping for the new lawnmower when we bought it, thinking he might appreciate it more but doesn't seem to matter. If you try to do a project with him, he wants to do it his way, not the right way, and if you try to read the instructions or pointnout hey it says slot A goes in slot B he just walks away and is done. He even does this at the hunting lease we own, and my husband is afraid to let him hunt alone becuase he refuses to listen and hes afraid he'll accidentally shoot himself or someone else. We aren't overly strict, in fact I don't even really ask much other than their room laundry and him taking out the trash. I don't expect them to do anything I would have to do if I didn't have kids. (dishes, vacuuming, taking care of my dogs).
The 20 yr old doesn't live here, she's married and has her own apartment. The 18 yr old is about to go off to college and wouldn't touch a shelf or hammer or drill if her life depended on it. She is good about including him in things like movies and outings with her and her friends.

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

I don't have kids but I remember being a teenager not too long ago. I'm 31 btw. Seems like your son was like me when I was a kid. Taking stuff apart just curious to see how it all went, but not remembering how to put it back. Trying to create new stuff out of old junk, I was in awe of the insides of a betamax player. LOL I am a creative, visual, hands on type person, do you think your son is this type as well? I did stuff like that, but my room was always a mess (always in mid project) I hated doing the dishes, etc, but was always working on something. If he is, I would not punish him for being creative or him trying to help, but punish him for breaking the shelf. Don't make it seem like it was YOUR project and yours alone, may make him feel shunned, like don't touch my stuff! Perhaps work on a project together, and show him how to do it correctly. Or if your dh can show him the correct way to service the lawn mower. Seems like he's gonna do it no matter what, at least show him the right way.

As far as punishment, I agree with rtsmichele take away some priviledges until you feel it's enough, and that you and dh have to work as a team.

How are the other two kids? Do they team up with eachother, and the youngest feels left out? My older sis and younger bro were always teamed up and ignored me, which is why I ended up taking all these strange hobbies and interests.

Originally Posted by My lil friend

I still have a 20yrold,18yrold and 16yrold at the house too,go us. I tell my children that if I ask then do,if I dont ask then DONT. If you are home and he is home,he might spend some time working in the yard first thing every morning. You cannt break anything hand watering the yard,been there done that too.
My oldest (now 26) became an apprentise at the age of 15 to a remodeler,so he could learn to FIX properly,not be in my house driving me nuts during the day and was to tired to do anything except his school work when he came home.
Classes at the local community college can be taken for continued education. These are adult classes but he can learn small engines,computers and cars,,and again he will be doing something useful besides "FIXING" things at your house.
Maybe you NEED some closets rearranged? Pull everything out and tell him what you want,just keep him away from the glass stuff on the shelves. My now 18yr old son has managed to chip every pyrex 9X13 that I own,they were all in good shape until 2 or 3 years ago and started out as wedding gifts from 1980 (he is the 5th child to handle this stuff and the only one to break it). Unless he hates the kitchen,let him learn to cook. I couldnt do this,my 20yrold daughter owns the kitchen and I was afraid that the son would burn the house down. Some young men just have a VERY HEAVY hand,even when they try to be careful.

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by McheleM

Hubby is on board with whatever. He and i usually discuss punishmentsand things, hes just at his whits end too.

The bad part is when someone tries to teach him, or correct him, he refuses to listen. My husband is a plumber and takes him with him to work in the summers- he refuses to listen when my husband tells him how to do something. He gets an "I already know how attitude" and it irritates my husband to no end! My husband has been plumbing for 18 years and learned at the side of his dad, how to do plumbing properly. He owns his own business and needs things to be done correctly and cant afford yo go back and redo things. Time is money..... My son has only lived with us 3 yrs. Before that he lived with his biological father and his dad never did anything with him?
We have tried to explain things, and use them as teaching tools (like the lawnmower) and even took him shopping for the new lawnmower when we bought it, thinking he might appreciate it more but doesn't seem to matter. If you try to do a project with him, he wants to do it his way, not the right way, and if you try to read the instructions or pointnout hey it says slot A goes in slot B he just walks away and is done. He even does this at the hunting lease we own, and my husband is afraid to let him hunt alone becuase he refuses to listen and hes afraid he'll accidentally shoot himself or someone else. We aren't overly strict, in fact I don't even really ask much other than their room laundry and him taking out the trash. I don't expect them to do anything I would have to do if I didn't have kids. (dishes, vacuuming, taking care of my dogs).
The 20 yr old doesn't live here, she's married and has her own apartment. The 18 yr old is about to go off to college and wouldn't touch a shelf or hammer or drill if her life depended on it. She is good about including him in things like movies and outings with her and her friends.

Ok I think I understand now. He has only been with you guys for 3 yrs, so he still isn't used to how he wants it, I guess. Also if you tell him to do something, he won't want to do it. He has to want to do it on his own. (Just like me.) Also it's the way you show him how something is done, and he doesn't like how it's being delivered (me again). This was like the first time I was learning to drive a stick, or going snowboarding, both were against my will, I was basically told I had to learn. Made me not want to do it before I even tried. Now I love doing both, thanks to a different way of teaching.

I agree with the community college classes or apprenticeship. That way it's instruction by someone outside the family. My going to design school changed the way I took constructive criticism, plus seeing how other students took criticism as well really helped. Is there something he is interested in that he can enroll in a class?

It's just that age in general that's tough. I hated my life from ages 12-17.

[McheleM]

I'm looking at continuing education classes at the local community college and will print off the available classes and see if anything interests him.

Should I talk to the teacher or just let them do their own thing?

I don't want him to think the class is punishment. Should I explain that he needs to properly learn things and that I feel they can teach better than hubby or I??

[My lil friend]

Sense my 18yr old has been working for several weeks now,I can honestly say that I am beginning to like him again,,,its only been 4yrs. He does not work with or for his dad. He needs to get out there (class or job) and see that Mom and Dad arent idiots by being with other adults.
I have spent the past 4yrs with some of these same responses and reactions. My other children are amazed that I have not turned into a mushroom cloud.
The change in my son has been so dramatic that I am KICKING myself for not helping it to happen sooner. I dont mind doing his laundry,he still does the trash and suddenly he can actually remember it twice a week. He doesn't grumble when I ask him to do the kitchen once or twice a week either. Im thinking that the kid that has been around here is stuffed in a closet and this is someone else,,I dont care. PEACE at last,for however long it lasts. Im just gonna ride this wave for a bit.

[My lil friend]

Do not speak to the teach! If he is going to be in an adult class then he needs to be seen as an adult.
A way to present the classes,,, " We appreciate you wanting to do things here at the house. We would like to afford you the opertunity to learn a skill that is for adults. You are obviously in need of something that you personally would enjoy. Here is a list of things that you can take. The summer classes aren't long and if you enjoy doing this,then we will make sure that you get to try some other new things."
Worked on mine for two semesters.

Good luck!!

[McheleM]

Originally Posted by My lil friend

Do not speak to the teach! If he is going to be in an adult class then he needs to be seen as an adult.
A way to present the classes,,, " We appreciate you wanting to do things here at the house. We would like to afford you the opertunity to learn a skill that is for adults. You are obviously in need of something that you personally would enjoy. Here is a list of things that you can take. The summer classes aren't long and if you enjoy doing this,then we will make sure that you get to try some other new things."
Worked on mine for two semesters.

Good luck!!

Ok.....thanks.

We are still going to ground him from his phone until he comes up with the money for the bookshelf.

[capt_noonie]

I agree, don't talk to the teacher. Just ask him, hey would you be interested in taking a such and such class? Don't ask him about it in the same conversation as you are grounded from your phone (or whatever bc you broke my shelf) just make it casual. does he have a hobby? Ask him, hey I saw at the community college they have these classes available, are you interested?

Similar story as how I got to design school. I think I was about 17, and the only "cool" adult in my family was my uncle. He came to my house one day out of the blue to me (maybe it was planned by my family, I don't know) and told me he saw me going into fashion and thought I was really creative, etc. Until then I had really no goals for education after high school. Since he was the "cool" uncle I took his advice and went to design school. Is there someone he looks up to that can have a non-confrontational talk with him? May have a bigger impact than parents giving advice, KWIM?

[McheleM]

We have a friend that lives one street over. He would do it. Maybe even let him come over and help out his wife doing odd jobs-she's pregnant with twins and due in august. Maybe coming from them, he might listen more.
Thanks.

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

I agree, don't talk to the teacher. Just ask him, hey would you be interested in taking a such and such class? Don't ask him about it in the same conversation as you are grounded from your phone (or whatever bc you broke my shelf) just make it casual. does he have a hobby? Ask him, hey I saw at the community college they have these classes available, are you interested?

Similar story as how I got to design school. I think I was about 17, and the only "cool" adult in my family was my uncle. He came to my house one day out of the blue to me (maybe it was planned by my family, I don't know) and told me he saw me going into fashion and thought I was really creative, etc. Until then I had really no goals for education after high school. Since he was the "cool" uncle I took his advice and went to design school. Is there someone he looks up to that can have a non-confrontational talk with him? May have a bigger impact than parents giving advice, KWIM?

[My lil friend]

Went to sleep thinking about you and your son and woke up thinking about ya'll,probably because I have SO been there. A few other things that I learned the hard way,,for as frustrated as I would get, I strove to speak to my son in a calm manner. If I sounded upset he looked at me like I was from Mars. Hubby and I had alot of private vent moments. I picked my battles very carefully,ya the phone needs to either go for a while or he only gets it for your convience (call when you get there) your paying for it. The excuse of,"I was just trying to help" is not an excuse for carelessness. One must pay for their mistakes,car wrecks are a good example. I made sure that his friends came and had gaming nights at my house,always had plenty of pizza and was the cool mom. It made his friends wonder what was wrong with him for being crabby. He has found out that I really am the cool mom,my rules are less than his friends and have been for a long time.
A while back he was going to dinner with one of HIS friends,I bid him a nice evening and just reminded him to let me know that he was ok. He gets to friends house to pick him up and low and behold the other kids mother sends the 8yr and 11yr old younger siblings with them. I laughed sooo hard!! OMG I had to go to my room and bury my face in a pillow so he wouldnt know. So there is justice somewhere in all of this.
Hang in there,you will look back and get to see the fruits of your labor and know that you had a hand in creating a wonderful person.

[Jinger]

I have a 20-year old daughter and 18-year old son, and I'm also a certified Youth and Young Adult Coach.
This is all just my opinion, but it has worked for me and for others.
I strongly believe that consequences should always be natural...just as they are for us as adults. Children, starting at a very young age, really are so similar to us--just younger and sometimes smaller. Every teen I've encountered has grown and matured by being treated as if they already have. If YOU broke the shelf, by mistake, what would your options be? I'm guessing getting a new shelf, figuring out a new plan for a doggie armoire, or fixing it. If it was my son, I would give him the exact same options, or choose the one you would like. He will learn on his own to be careful, and might really take the "carelessness" assumption too much to heart. What we probably wouldn't do, as adults, is take our own phone away if we broke our shelf, nor would we want someone to tell us to only do what they've asked us to do, and nothing else. We would get so frustrated about the "injustice" that we may take that frustration out it undesirable ways--rebellion, feeling sullen, resentment...so many.
I'll guess his Love Language is acts of service, and deep down he wants to do things for people and just doesn't quite know how to express that and accomplish that yet. Especially if he is "new" in your home. Overriding that somewhat subconscious desire to help with projects is very difficult at his age.
So, to make a long post even longer...
Always try to match the consequence to the mistake...just like what actually happens to us. A couple for instances: If you find that your son has been calling "Adult" phone lines , or overusing his minutes or text limits, THEN it makes sense to tell him, "Cell phones are to be used when we can handle the limitations our family puts on them. Until I feel like you've shown me you CAN handle it again, I will keep your cell phone for you. The timing is up to YOU, and the way you show me is up to you." Then, as mom, be open; could be one day, may end up being a week...you'll know.
If a child doesn't clean up their room, I've found that no amount of telling, pleading or yelling will really help long term. But explaining to them that any clothes, belongings or property that gets damaged because of their poor housekeeping skills will need to be replaced does. Or, letting them know that you gave them a room our of respect for their privacy and so they could enjoy a place of their own; so, perhaps they don't need it?
Re: the trash, couple of options: 1. "You didn't take the trash out as you said you would, so I had to do it myself; now, I'm too tired/frustrated to...make your dinner...take you to _____. Once I've re-energized (and feel free to help me with that if you think of something) I will be able to help you with your things again."
Does that long-winded, abbreviated, early-morning explanation make sense?
Good luck, and enjoy him every minute that you can!
I have tons of books (and thoughts I'm not very good at keeping to myself , if you have parenting questions, and I'm happy to help if I can!

[Britster]

I agree with CptNoonie- I am 20yrs old right now, so it wasn't long ago at all, I was a teenager, hehe.

My dad got together with my stepmom when I was about 10 or 11. The first few years were tough, she was totally different than my mom, they did things a different way, etc. I can remember trying to be 'mature' and help out... I'd do the dishes, and then she'd go in there re-arranging them fixing everything. I'd put the dishes away, she'd take them all out and put them back in another way. If I even used the toaster oven to make something for myself, she would inform me I was doing it the wrong way. Eventually I just gave up and didn't do anything, so then they were mad because I wasn't doing chores. I felt like I couldn't win. Maybe your son is feeling sort of like this? He's trying to do good but he always seems to mess it up... he sounds like a pretty good kid, at least he's trying to help, so I wouldn't be too rough on him.

I agree on doing some kind of a project together. Or maybe just say "hey if you do your laundry real quick, do you wanna build *such and such* together after?" or something...