I am sorry to say.........

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

The thread was closed and I seriously don't "get" why people want to keep going at it. Or, maybe I do.

I for one am going to do my best to avoid this thread from here on out. It is nothing but a witch hunt at this point. No different than what everyone is accusing people of doing to that woman.

This is not a witch hunt. I am hunting nothing. No one has to post on here about what they said or did.

I feel it is important to let everyone know that personal attacks are counter productive.

Once the attacks started the entire message was lost, the OP was too busy defending herself, to even think about the message.

I will tell you that she emailed me and asked me to tell her exactly why, her situation was different than anyone else that had two females that fight.

I explained it to her and then she understood.

She posted that she was going to rehome the female, and that still did not make people happy.

Everyone was in attrack mode, snd the fact that she rolled over and submitted did not matter, they saw her weakness went in for the kill.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by chic-n-ltl

I'm new to YT, and I didn't read the post, but, I have read a few of these comments. I came on here this morning to ask a question.....now, I'm not sure I should ask anything on here!!

If you would like to ask your question privately, please private message someone on YT that you trust.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

One must realize that this is an open forum. Granted her physical challanges should have never been attacked. What in my opinion was being challaged was this person's lack of knowledge in all things dogs.

As I said, in the first couple of pages of the post, advice was given in a a respectful, informative manner. I for one will never condone breeding without knowledge and breeding to supplement ones income. Have I attacked people, yes, although rarely, but, when I see that they are wasting peoples time by asking questions, get upset when they don't get the advice they want to hear and continue to do what they are going to do. Then come back on and ask for help again......

As stated already: Breeding a female that showed signs of abuse at a year of age and then breeding her again. Breeding females with aggression problems; had drawn blood, killed puppies.....This person is very unprepared.
I'm on the side of the dogs....they don't have the ability to speak.

Nothing the person said warranted a personal attack. She learned, she said she was going to rehome the dog, she got the message.

But then when people no longer had the fighting issue to discuss, they started personal attacks on her.

They did not stop, they were already in attack mode and they were not going to back down.

If you have ever, yourself, been put in that position, you will know the feeling of helplessness, no matter what you say to defend yourself, it becomes a weapon for the other side.

[tammy8833]

"I see so many people saying they are afraid to post questions. I for one am not."

apparently this is a big problem because it has been posted many many many time

heres some proof that it has become uncomfortable for more..

quote " YT has really changed I'm sad by this because I use to really enjoy spending so much of my time here. It used to be such pleasant place. I 100% support educating, but feel there is also a proper way of doing that. Placing others beneath you, surely can't be the way".

"Thank you for taking the words out of my mouth here. I have been watching and wanting to post but I was unsure of how to say what I
ment."

I'm new to YT, and I didn't read the post, but, I have read a few of these comments. I came on here this morning to ask a question.....now, I'm not sure I should ask anything on here!!

"Several have stated that people are hesitant of asking questions, because they fear being jumped, bashed, whatever.....If questions are asked with good intentions for their dogs, one doesn't have to fear that." again its more proof that people are becoming more and more unwilling to voice their questions for fear of being jumped and of course placing their pups in harms way. "But, if questions are asked and advice is offered and one is not willing to take it, and will do what they are going to do anyway, why post your question. That is when YTers become passionate, angry and things get out of hand." whether they take the advise or not and you never really know, we are behind monitors, just putting it out there is great enough..so "oustiders" might see it and have the answers they need..or memebers to intimidated post can get the answers they need..but we individuals see the "mentors" or their "groupies" bashing people..they will look the other way and NOT read the answers and probably choose NOT to stay, again more puppies/dogs at risk because of the mannerism in the way things were addressed,

again! : These people (the same ones) again and again are the ones who are repeat offenders and it causes others to be scared to post and ask questions which is info that maybe a poor defenseless yorkie might depend on their owner knowing.

"I understand how it can look from the outside, but if you really want to listen to advice, I can't see it turning for the worst."

this is how yt is represented...from out siders, insiders, and people who will never become members or stay members

"have had questionable questions before now and again. Instead of posting a thread that I could foresee as going wrong, instead I pm'd a member or two that I have great respect for and asked their opinion."

"newbies" dont have that option

"I think people should also refrain from using the phrase "if you don't have anything nice/helpful/constructive etc to say you shouldn't say anything at all" when they have been helpful like pages and pages back."

whats sad is you believe that...thats how teachers or are supposed to teach.. and again newbys may not know how to navigate to find that information on here.

". some people seem to not be able to ever let things go.." apparently alot of people cant let it go and a lot of people are standing up and saying something because it just isnt right. and on the note "people cant let it go" the same people "on the other side of the fight" cant either with their "venting" threads

"I find it interesting that certain breeders seem to have an axe to grind with rescuers" no i see this actually switched around rescuers have an axe to grind with breeders..they are fighting the loudest and are typically the first to loose control and get nasty. its wonderful with the rescuers do but it doesnt mean they are better then the breeder and just because you might have cleaned one breeders mess up doesnt mean you can direct all that anger and frustration on other breeders that may have never caused any messes.

"This is all just so ridiculous that people want to malign others....acting all holier than thou. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones"
this is the exact reason why people are "venting" now and what people tried to say on the other thread.

interjecting a quote i liked

"This is a YORKIE forum. No one here is God or Mother Teresa. It is not YOUR job to make accusations to ones character! You can get your point across without being total WITCHES"

twinkie2cute i respected n liked ur post as well..but to long to add

here should be another tip for yt administrators to look at and investigate

"every negative/heated post whether it was meant to be negative/heated or not consists of the same handfull of posters."

[tammy8833]

"I don't care if you are poor, disabled, a novice yorkie owner, or novice yorkie breeder but when you post something that demonstrates such a basic lack of common sense on a site like this, well, to be honest, you are asking for it. to the extent that you then provide a bunch of additional ammunition for those that do have strong opinions here, well you should not be surprised at the response"...your right..a lot of people would have thought hey separate them..but at times where you are upset and cant think clearly maybe a little help isnt so bad...and i never saw where the op on that thread refused to separate them..its very traumatic when you have two dogs you love to pieces get in a ugly fight.

these words in bold..is what people with education and advice have use to describe their "attack" kind of fits really..ammunition/attack.. and many times it goes past strong opinions

I've noticed a trend also. It is definitely a pack mentality. and the more the OP tries to explain themselves the worse it gets and if anyone else jumps in they are attacked also.

She had no idea that in revealing her personal disbility and financial status it would be turned against her.

The thread was no longer about the dog, she was being attacked personally, and so were the people defending her.

When I read some of those posts I was appalled and I didn't even see the deleted ones. It sickened me all day.

I debated long time over whether or not I should start this thread. Then decided that these people needed to be revealed. I used to have respect for them, but now I see I was overlooking what they are doing because I was afraid to speak out.

"I felt like a kid watching bullies pick on the disabled kid and being afraid of stepping in and I really was ashamed that I did not do more to help her instead of sitting on the sidelines." A LOT OF YT MEMBERS FEEL THIS WAY

"Now in regard to this person's physical challenges.....Caring, breeding and raising puppies is a full time job. One has to be on "duty" 24 hours a day. It requires physical strength and stamina to do a good job for the welfare of the dogs. In my opinion that was also a point of contention and added fuel to the fire. Some felt that this person, with whatever their physical challange is, was not in the position of properly caring for these dogs. She'd already been a position where pups had been killed, due to this persons lack of prepardeness and education." i could have missed it but she never stated what her disabilities were..so to ASSUME she couldnt keep up with the puppies can be incorrect...honestly im raising 2 litters, 2 toddlers, a husband, a household, and my day to day things..and its not that hard..


"moderator of that thread flat out said she didn't see anything wrong with what anyone said and that they were just "passionate and had strong opinions." You'd have to be blind (in my opinion) to not see anything wrong with what was said at times!" there are several things on that post that i cant believe havent been deleted and i wont name, names but i cant believe some people havent been suspended for their comments others have been suspended for less...but seems they same ones are allowed to comment in anyway they choose with out consequences

this is so so so true : What is most sad to me is the people who are disrespectful say they are defending the dogs and the breed but you can have all the good intentions in the world and all the yorkie knowledge in the world and if you have the people skills of a WALL the breed will suffer because PEOPLE are in charge of the breed.

another good quote : "Then to hurl personal insults on top of that is deplorable. It doesn't help YT become the site it was intended to be at all and hopefully the moderators and admin will wake up to this problem"

"bring change to YT" i second that

again these same people are brought up again..apparently they are a problem for a lot of yt memebers
"this handful of people (the squeaky wheels that are getting the grease)"

Why not? its done for others on here "You are frustrated because I suppose you want something to happen to a person who voiced their opinion"

no one said they were loosing sleep...she actually said she slept well
"Losing sleep over something online is simply unhealthy."

"Don't you see that you are also being intolerant? seriously You are doing just what you are complaining about" apparently the other side needs a venting section as well..someone needs to start standing up and letting people know when there is a problem that is not in agreement with certain individuals..when in actuality those individuals are the problem

so true: If someone asks the question they are thinking about their dogs!

The thread was closed and I seriously don't "get" why people want to keep going at it. "well if you arent part of the solution your part of the problem" i love this quote..one of my husbands actually

no its not a witch hunt.. dont be so dramatic

As I said, in the first couple of pages of the post, advice was given in a a respectful, informative manner. so when advise is not heeded it gives people the right to turn nasty?

on this nothing else needs to be said she said it all "nominate the nicest YT member" I think maybe a handful of people commented but for the most part it wasn't commented on! Which is seriously sad to me. The negative and attacking threads are most popular and the positive and uplifting threads die off. And interestingly enough none of the squeaky wheels did not comment in that thread at all."

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Let me add in defense of Wylie's Mom/Moderator. She's on the side of the dogs too, and could very well be the reason she allowed the thread to be played out.

Being on the side of the dog, does not excuse personal attacks.

The thread should have ened after she said she was rehoming the dog. But that is exactly here it turned vicious.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I agree w/ Mardelin - that's where I'm coming from as well.

I think this thread is presumptive. It infers too much about the original thread that wasn't there, in my opinion. This person, disabled or fully abled, was breeding an abused dog, was not providing a safe environment for these dogs, and was adding more dogs to the mix. THAT was really the issue. Dogs were fighting, puppies died.

When a few people made comments saying she should not be using these dogs to make money, those comments, imo, were *not* about her disability - those comments were about the fact that she was *not* breeding safely.

For the record, maryeverrett1, I am not blind - but I do find it very ironic and rather insensitive that you would make that kind of comment in this thread.

Respectfully,

once again this is not about the treatment of the dog. It is about people attacking her for "not having a job" due to her disability.

[Reese1]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Nothing the person said warranted a personal attack. She learned, she said she was going to rehome the dog, she got the message.

But then when people no longer had the fighting issue to discuss, they started personal attacks on her.

They did not stop, they were already in attack mode and they were not going to back down.

If you have ever, yourself, been put in that position, you will know the feeling of helplessness, no matter what you say to defend yourself, it becomes a weapon for the other side.

Honestly, I just went back and re-read through a lot of the posts and I really think most of the fighting at the end was not between the original poster and others, but between someone there defending her and other posters.
I honestly didn't see posts that were just attacking her for being disabled. One post that was said about her getting a job, I honestly think came without knowledge of her being disabled, but in response to the fact she is breeding to pay bills.
Most of the posts I read that had anything at all to do with her being disabled were again directed to another poster defending her practices and were stating that the fact she is disabled doesn't warrant or justify her breeding practices.
I don't see where anyone was making fun of her for being disabled, calling her names for being disabled. Maybe, I missed them somewhere, but I didn't see that.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Reese1

I went back and looked and she was offered A LOT of suggestions and advice and it really didn't start to take a turn until about 4 pages in and that was after it came to light that the dog was abused. Honestly, I'm pretty sure that's what ignited the passion in the posters from then on.
Again I'm not condoning anyone for making any rude remarks regarding someone's disability or financial status at all. I didn't do that.
How about the question though of disrespect for that poor female though? That was the issue for me. I'm sorry but I don't think the dog deserved that.

The issue of the dog was discussed in the other thread. this is a discussion about the personsl attack.

If she herself had not posted those things, no one would have known about it. She posted it in innocence. Trying to give you the whole picture. Not saying what she was doing was right, Just sayiong she did not understand why it was wrong.

and there was no call for personal attacks.

[Reese1]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Respectfully,

once again this is not about the treatment of the dog. It is about people attacking her for "not having a job" due to her disability.

Jeanie,

I know I just posted to you, but I saw this after. I don't think people attacked her for not having a job because she was disabled. I'm sorry, but IMO that is twisting things.
People were "attacking" her breeding practices and the reasons given for them. JMO
I think people were frustrated that someone was defending her practices and justifying it because of her being disabled, but please point me to where someone for the sake of being mean just plain attacked her disability?

[livingdustmops]

There are some of us on YT that will place the welfare of the dogs above humans because someone has to be the voice for these animals, we have seen or see on a daily basis the abuse of animals. We have enough people that use them for their own welfare and it is very apparent with some people. If the majority of people on YT feels that no one should try to protect these dogs or animals in general then I have been sadly mistaken what this group is about.

For those of you who think the respectable breeders and the real rescue people were downgrading someone because they don't have $$$ and are in a wheelchair is just trying to put a spin on a story . I have a handicapped family member and I have family members who are poor - and I can darn well tell you they would be very upset to know people are trying to play the "poor is me card" and I can also tell you they love animals and would not use them to pay bills. So poor handicapped people don't have to play by the same rules..I don't think so and I am sure they would also be offended by this suggestion. In fact many of them fought for laws so they are treated as equals. IMO when people put a spin on these issues they are the ones who are prejudice against these people...they see them as different. Let me point out here, I am not against poor, handicapped people breeding if they can do it right (for the dogs) and can handle situations and have the resources ($$$) if something happens. If you are handicapped and cannot get into the whelping box to help mom then it is one more reason you should not be breeding. They also should be doing their homework/research before they start the process...just like anyone else. I would also add here for the ones being so judgmental have you worked with abused dogs, walk into a puppy mill, walked into a byb's home, been in the shelters, seen the fear in these animals eyes, seen animals that cower because of abuse and been there when the breeders are done with them and toss them away or even kill them ? Everyone on YT has to decide if they are going to help animals or hurt animals.

For those of you who are afraid to ask questions then I feel sorry for your pup. Everyday hundreds of questions come into YT and never have a problem so I wonder just what questions you are so afraid to ask. Hurting animals is never right in my book nor is using them for your own greed and frankly I am disgusted if members on YT feels this way.

We all know anyone can make $$$ off of the dogs by not doing right by the animals. The ones who don't make money are pouring the money back into their breeding programs by going to the shows, giving their dogs top medical & dental care, feeding them quality food, investing in educational programs and spending $$$ researching the dogs and their pedigree's and are not cutting corners with their breeding program. Again a spin put on the story.

I will never understand how someone could know a dog killed puppies, gets into death fights with another dog , was an abused dog, dogs beaten by a cane where the dogs were still in pain the next day is okay and that we are the bad people for trying to protect the animals. But then again some people think it is okay to kill a puppy with a hammer.

If some of you think I enjoy confrontation, you are wrong, but I will speak up for the dogs.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by RemydeHaviland

I would draw a distinction here...

Blaming or bullying someone simply for the sake of their disability or difference is without a doubt wrong and uncalled for. In that regard I completely agree with you

However when one chooses to bring up those types of things in the context of explaining, justifying, rationalizing, or legitimizing other behaviors - particularly ones that have had extreme consequences (there were fatalities...) that is not going to garner much empathy, or respect. IMO

Making person attacks is certainly not going to make one want to listen to the advice.

It is only going to make others afraid to ask questions. She really did not understand.

Do you think that those that were attacking her personally were gaining respect? Maybe from the others that joined in, but not from me.

That is exactly why I started this thread, because it saddened me that I lost respect for people that I used to look up to.

If a kid in school gets picked on, should they have known better than to, ask that question or wear hand me downs, or show up at school in a wheel chair. What did they expect.?

[jrsygal37]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Everyone was in attrack mode, snd the fact that she rolled over and submitted did not matter, they saw her weakness went in for the kill.

I don't think she rollled over and submitted. She is going to rehome her, but she's not going to have her spayed. She's going to sell her to someone else that may end up breeding her. She's just passing off the problem instead of correcting it. Elaine

[Woogie Man]

I haven't read all this thread yet but I have to make a couple of comments.

First, I agree with Ladyjane about how and when it got nasty. Some things said were over the top but it didn't get that way until another poster (that seems intent on selling the OP more puppies) got into it. I think then the arrows being slung were more at that person than the OP, though she was brought up in it all.

Secondly, Ann (Wylie's Mom) did come on with a post and allowed the discussion to continue. It really wasn't 'that' heated at that point so why not continue. And, it isn't her job to sit around and baby sit a thread. Also, sometimes threads continue because good info is coming out of it that others will find useful. It's not always 'just' about the OP. You will see that many threads wander a bit of topic and are not just about the original question. Some times, one question or comment begets another. It's the way conversations go.

Now...I'll keep reading....

[chic-n-ltl]

Okay....I bred my yorkie on March 22nd....litter due around May 22nd, this morning when I took her out to potty...(pee) she came in with a long, thin, yellowish string hanging from her that I had to wipe off. Is this normal, or should I be concerned?