I am sorry to say.........

[RemydeHaviland]

I read that thread early on, only to roll my eyes and think - seriously? You posted this? You could see it was going to get ugly - and the OP has as much to do with that as those that jumped on the bandwagon - IMO

I don't care if you are poor, disabled, a novice yorkie owner, or novice yorkie breeder but when you post something that demonstrates such a basic lack of common sense on a site like this, well, to be honest, you are asking for it. to the extent that you then provide a bunch of additional ammunition for those that do have strong opinions here, well you should not be surprised at the response

seriously - look at the subject of the post and how it was phrased
who would have to ask a question about how to deal with a situation like that? particularly someone with some level of expertise. dogs fighting to the point of drawing blood? one killing the others pups? I am a first time dog owner, and know nothing about breeding. But basic common sense should tell you what to do, it should not necessitate a post and online discussion

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by chandracz

LOL everyone needs to rant now and then and I didn't take it personally. When it's really important, I will ask a question, but i've learned to keep a lot of things to myself... I am just one of those people that always try to post positively because I am a very sensitive person. I know how I take things sometimes, so I try hard to watch what I say so I don't unknowingly or not meaning to make someone else feel bad. I hope i'm making sense... I know I am in my mind

I do not ask a lot of times either, I go to those who I know will not call me "STUPID" for asking as question.

This thread was my "rant". The things said in that thread were unnecessary. There were many peole who gave good advice and answered her question. Others started right out belittling her for being poor.

The funny thing is, when I first joined and mentioned breeding everyone pointed out to me that there is no money to be made breeding dogs.

Now everyone is accusing people of breeding for the money. Well we all know that if you do make any profit it is small one, and the next litter you might lose money.

Addressing the disabled issue. Not all disabled people are house bound or confined to a bed. they can do things but it is difficult for them and takes them a lot longer and they need to rest more frequently. And that is what makes one unemployable. It's not that they can't do anything it's that no one will hire them because they are not efficient and they need too many breaks.

But to tell a disable person to get off their ass and get a job is way out of line.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I am going to say one thing and be done with this thread. I am not sure why some people seem to not be able to ever let things go. I for one had let it go when that thread was closed, but saw this thread and have to make just one response to it.

I find it interesting that certain breeders seem to have an axe to grind with rescuers. Now...I know that is something you might disagree with, but I am putting it out there anyway. The only reason I can see it is because perhaps what we do makes some of them quite uncomfortable.

Now....I am finished with that....and ask anyone who is able to read and comprehend the English language to view the following posts. I was accused of something last night that was DEAD wrong. I do not ever make fun of poor people and handicapped people. There are those of you who don't like my ways....that's fine. Perhaps if I bother you so much, you should ignore me. There are many of you who are ignored by me and more will be after tonight. This is all just so ridiculous that people want to malign others....acting all holier than thou. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Now...read the following IF you can comprehend it and I am not going to ask you if you see that I DID NOT make fun of the handicapped...I am going to TELL YOU that I did not. Someone artfully put a spin on it....just like Rush Limbaugh does on a daily basis.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3078000-post241.html

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3078007-post244.html

Good night to all of you....wishing you a peaceful sleep. I am definitely going to have one.

If you were not one that belittled then you are not one that I was referring to. this is a case of "if the shoe fits, wear it".

Those who did, know who they are. Not everyone that posted on there was belittling, but there were definitely some that were.

I understand where rescuers are coming from, and I admire them for what they do, I could not do it. But some of your peers went toooo far on that thread.

And yes I slept well after getting that off my chest.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

i have noticed a trend in my short time here....

every negative/heated post whether it was meant to be negative/heated or not consists of the same handfull of posters.

that being said - some people thrive on drama. that will never change.

it's sad, really. what people must be lacking in their lives to be so ugly to others!

I've noticed a trend also. It is definitely a pack mentality. and the more the OP tries to explain themselves the worse it gets and if anyone else jumps in they are attacked also.

She had no idea that in revealing her personal disbility and financial status it would be turned against her.

The thread was no longer about the dog, she was being attacked personally, and so were the people defending her.

When I read some of those posts I was appalled and I didn't even see the deleted ones. It sickened me all day.

I debated long time over whether or not I should start this thread. Then decided that these people needed to be revealed. I used to have respect for them, but now I see I was overlooking what they are doing because I was afraid to speak out.

I felt like a kid watching bullies pick on the disabled kid and being afraid of stepping in and I really was ashamed that I did not do more to help her instead of sitting on the sidelines.

[Mardelin]

I went back and reread the thread last night.

Yes, it didn't get heated and nasty, could things have been projected differently, yes. But, where I saw the whole thing go sour, was at the point when: Advice was offerred, in the welfare of the dogs and the person responded that spaying was an not an option because the person was breeding to supplement an income. And you'll notice, in the first couple of pages of the post, there were several great offers of advice.

Now in regard to this person's physical challenges.....Caring, breeding and raising puppies is a full time job. One has to be on "duty" 24 hours a day. It requires physical strength and stamina to do a good job for the welfare of the dogs. In my opinion that was also a point of contention and added fuel to the fire. Some felt that this person, with whatever their physical challange is, was not in the position of properly caring for these dogs. She'd already been a position where pups had been killed, due to this persons lack of prepardeness and education.

Several have stated that people are hesitant of asking questions, because they fear being jumped, bashed, whatever.....If questions are asked with good intentions for their dogs, one doesn't have to fear that. But, if questions are asked and advice is offered and one is not willing to take it, and will do what they are going to do anyway, why post your question. That is when YTers become passionate, angry and things get out of hand.

There are several other things in the OPers past posts that threw up red flags that revealed that she was not prepared to embark on her breeding program. Go back and read her posts. This person is in need of financial help, but, she is able to buy and accumulate more dogs to breed. Makes one think, but still not our place to judge. What is being judged is living off the backs of her dogs.

[maryeverett1]

Thank you for posting this. I wrote a comment to that thread at the very end because I was so horrified and disgusted by some of the rude, disrespectful and outright mean comments said to the OP who was honestly looking for help, but it was closed before I could post. What is most facinating to me is that the moderator of that thread flat out said she didn't see anything wrong with what anyone said and that they were just "passionate and had strong opinions." You'd have to be blind (in my opinion) to not see anything wrong with what was said at times! It would not suprise me in the least if the OP of that thread is yet another casualty of people's attacks and out right meaness and leaves YT altogether. What is most sad to me is the people who are disrespectful say they are defending the dogs and the breed but you can have all the good intentions in the world and all the yorkie knowledge in the world and if you have the people skills of a WALL the breed will suffer because PEOPLE are in charge of the breed. Regardless of whether negative information needs to be said or difficult advice given it can always be done with respect towards the person who has the issue. These people (the same ones) again and again are the ones who are repeat offenders and it causes others to be scared to post and ask questions which is info that maybe a poor defenseless yorkie might depend on their owner knowing. I don't know who died and made these people head of hitting people over the head with the "yorkie bible" but it needs to stop. And then to hurl personal insults on top of that is deplorable. It doesn't help YT become the site it was intended to be at all and hopefully the moderators and admin will wake up to this problem. And stand by their own rules! Yes this is a public forum and we are all adults and can say what we like but when did that become a license to be offensive and disrespectful? When I wrote "bring change to YT" I wasn't saying all YT was bad and sucks...I was specifically talking about this handful of people (the squeaky wheels that are getting the grease) and wondering if people (like the majority of the ones who have commented in this thread) would stand up and take this forum back from them by doing what the OP did here! We can refuse to accept that kind of behavior as the norm so seriously bravo to you! There was a thread started yesterday called "nominate the nicest YT member" I think maybe a handful of people commented but for the most part it wasn't commented on! Which is seriously sad to me. The negative and attacking threads are most popular and the positive and uplifting threads die off. And interestingly enough none of the squeaky wheels did not comment in that thread at all. This is something that can change if enough people decide for themselves that they won't behave that way and will stand up and blow the whistle on other people who behave this way. You can't change anyone else but you can decide for yourself! I'm committed to making sure that I am personally encouraging, positive and at the very least even if its a negative or difficult piece of info to relay, respectful of the person who has been brave enough and consciencious enough to want the info. Again, Jeanie K thank you for being the OP of this thread! I hope your comments and this thread makes a huge difference!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by RemydeHaviland

I read that thread early on, only to roll my eyes and think - seriously? You posted this? You could see it was going to get ugly - and the OP has as much to do with that as those that jumped on the bandwagon - IMO

I don't care if you are poor, disabled, a novice yorkie owner, or novice yorkie breeder but when you post something that demonstrates such a basic lack of common sense on a site like this, well, to be honest, you are asking for it. to the extent that you then provide a bunch of additional ammunition for those that do have strong opinions here, well you should not be surprised at the response

seriously - look at the subject of the post and how it was phrased
who would have to ask a question about how to deal with a situation like that? particularly someone with some level of expertise. dogs fighting to the point of drawing blood? one killing the others pups? I am a first time dog owner, and know nothing about breeding. But basic common sense should tell you what to do, it should not necessitate a post and online discussion

If she had a "basic lack of common sense" than how was she to know this was going to happen. She was not a troll trying to stir something up. she had no idea she would be personally attacked. That is like blaming the disabled kid for being disabled. It is their fault for showing up to school in a wheel chair. Didn't they realize they would be picked on?

If anything I would call her too naive and trusting. She did not do anything wrong. Who would think that posting that you are poor and disabled would get you bullied.

But I'm sure that she has now learned not to be so trusting on forums.

[ladyjane]

That was a very emotional thread.....quite a disgusting topic in my opinion.

You say that I was not one of the people you are referring to and talk about my peers. First of all, let me remind you that your peer jumped all over me and falsely accused me. Did you say anything to him?

You are frustrated because I suppose you want something to happen to a person who voiced their opinion. You don't call the shots on that and I would like to suggest that you learn that quickly. Losing sleep over something online is simply unhealthy.

I honestly believe that if some of your peers had not jumped in and come up with such lame excuses for a person to breed indiscriminately, then it would never have come to what it did. How do you see them as any different than those you are complaining about? Seriously. They only posted to start a complaint session...to defend someone breeding an abused pup...surely people HAVE to know that the poor dog should never have been bred. You expect yorkie lovers to just sit back and be quiet? That will never happen, so I suggest you find a healthy way to deal with it before it makes you ill.

My peers ... I suppose you mean other rescuers, although some of the people who agreed with us are not rescuers; are wonderful people who totally love the breed and give to them on a daily basis. I am proud to be associated with them.

I see all of the comments here as simply more drama. I say let it go. You cannot change things. There are many people on YT who bother me with things they say/do; but, I realize that I don't have the magic button to make them leave. We all need to simply learn to live and let live.

What someone says does not make it so.

Don't you see that you are also being intolerant? seriously You are doing just what you are complaining about.

[red98vett]

I didn't post but did read that whole thread - what I walked away with was deep sorrow for the little pup AND the puppies that were killed.

This kind of thing breaks your heart to read and no matter what - there has GOT to be a solution. It was a long thread but hopefully the person who posted walked away with some answers. Granted there were some pretty rough responses but it's a rough situation....passions run deep.

If I saw my 2 fight like to the point of possible death (and while I know it happens) - I'd be frantic looking for answers. The good AND the bad.

IF I were a breeder - which thank God I'm not - I would never EVER breed a girl who was possibly abused. Abused fearful dogs are little loves that need stability ....they've already had a hard live and to me - why put them thru a trauma of having puppies....especially if puppies are being killed in the home.

I do understand financial problems - I'm not by any means comfortable financially - BUT some people do look at selling puppies as income - which we all know is common - but ONLY if it's in the dogs best interest. Too many people only see dogs as a commodity. (speaking generally here) and those are the ones I think people have trouble understanding.

If it came to re-homing one I would seriously think about it for the sake of their life. NO ONE CAN WATCH THEIR DOGS ALL THE TIME - it's just not possible but there ARE solutions and again - I hope the poster did get some answers.

This wasn't the only thread I've seen where someone posted something very controversial.....I recall one thread about euthansia that had me sick to my stomach.......it got hot that's for sure but that's why people are here - to TRY to convey what they feel is right and wrong. Rudeness is never an answer but some people just don't mince words.

[Reese1]

I posted in that thread, but I did NOT make any comments in regard to her health, disability or being poor.
The issues to me were:
She took in a 1yr female that according to her was physically abused, skin & bones and had emotional issues. This female was immediately bred.
This same female has now drawn blood on another pregnant female & killed their puppies.
I'm sorry but that still breaks my heart, those were the issues for me.
I also think a lot of advice was given to her at the beginning.
I'm not condoning the comments you are bringing up that were made to her, but I don't condone her actions where this poor female is concerned either.

[maryeverett1]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I went back and reread the thread last night.

Yes, it didn't get heated and nasty, could things have been projected differently, yes. But, where I saw the whole thing go sour, was at the point when: Advice was offerred, in the welfare of the dogs and the person responded that spaying was an not an option because the person was breeding to supplement an income. And you'll notice, in the first couple of pages of the post, there were several great offers of advice.

Now in regard to this person's physical challenges.....Caring, breeding and raising puppies is a full time job. One has to be on "duty" 24 hours a day. It requires physical strength and stamina to do a good job for the welfare of the dogs. In my opinion that was also a point of contention and added fuel to the fire. Some felt that this person, with whatever their physical challange is, was not in the position of properly caring for these dogs. She'd already been a position where pups had been killed, due to this persons lack of prepardeness and education.

Several have stated that people are hesitant of asking questions, because they fear being jumped, bashed, whatever.....If questions are asked with good intentions for their dogs, one doesn't have to fear that. But, if questions are asked and advice is offered and one is not willing to take it, and will do what they are going to do anyway, why post your question. That is when YTers become passionate, angry and things get out of hand.

There are several other things in the OPers past posts that threw up red flags that revealed that she was not prepared to embark on her breeding program. Go back and read her posts. This person is in need of financial help, but, she is able to buy and accumulate more dogs to breed. Makes one think, but still not our place to judge. What is being judged is living off the backs of her dogs.

If someone doesn't take advice it doesn't give any of us the right to hurl personal attacks! And SHE DID ask the questions in the best interests of her dogs! If someone asks the question they are thinking about their dogs! There is never ever ever EVER a time where it is ever appropriate to be rude, insulting or disrespectful to another person! And it certainly doesn't make a person (like the OP of that thread) want to take any advice when they are being attacked and picked apart for things. There is always a way to say that very same info in a kind, respectful, informative and non judgemental way. The advice in that thread was not wrong but the way it was given was completely out of line and therefore those dogs who could have been helped now probably won't because the OP probably only saw attacks instead of helpful advice given with compassion and in a respectful manner. The elevator needs to go to the top floor on how to communicate effectively with one another and there are a handful of people who just don't get it. Very sad.

[ladyjane]

The thread was closed and I seriously don't "get" why people want to keep going at it. Or, maybe I do.

I for one am going to do my best to avoid this thread from here on out. It is nothing but a witch hunt at this point. No different than what everyone is accusing people of doing to that woman.

[maryeverett1]

Originally Posted by Reese1

I posted in that thread, but I did NOT make any comments in regard to her health, disability or being poor.
The issues to me were:
She took in a 1yr female that according to her was physically abused, skin & bones and had emotional issues. This female was immediately bred.
This same female has now drawn blood on another pregnant female & killed their puppies.
I'm sorry but that still breaks my heart, those were the issues for me.
I also think a lot of advice was given to her at the beginning.
I'm not condoning the comments you are bringing up that were made to her, but I don't condone her actions where this poor female is concerned either.

Being respectful doesn't mean you are condoning what someone is doing!! There was a good advice given at the beginning but it got ugly really fast! The issues you listed above are serious and did need to be addressed but could have been done without out and out meaness and being rude. All I'm saying here.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by maryeverett1

Being respectful doesn't mean you are condoning what someone is doing!! There was a good advice given at the beginning but it got ugly really fast! The issues you listed above are serious and did need to be addressed but could have been done without out and out meaness and being rude. All I'm saying here.

I'm NOT DEFENDING ANYONE HERE

But I wish those that pour their hearts into helping these dogs got the same attention as they do when they post something people take issue with

ANYONE who has been here a long time know who they are and what they do and it seems to me that all gets forgotten because of a lack of tack in a few threads - there's much more going on behind the scenes than most see here and there are some who are total advocates for dogs and spend much of their own money AND time into helping them - but they say something that people don't like and boom - they're the bad guys.

I stated rudeness isn't right - but some people just post what they feel. We're ALL different - what one may say with tact - another may not mince words.

It's the INTERNET - we wouldn't be here if we didn't care. I really doubt people are here with the sole intention of making someone feel bad...but on the other hand - stating the obvious (in ALL threads) should be allowed.....granted it may be said differently but like I said - some people don't mince words. It doesn't make them bad people.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I went back and reread the thread last night.

Yes, it didn't get heated and nasty, could things have been projected differently, yes. But, where I saw the whole thing go sour, was at the point when: Advice was offerred, in the welfare of the dogs and the person responded that spaying was an not an option because the person was breeding to supplement an income. And you'll notice, in the first couple of pages of the post, there were several great offers of advice.

Now in regard to this person's physical challenges.....Caring, breeding and raising puppies is a full time job. One has to be on "duty" 24 hours a day. It requires physical strength and stamina to do a good job for the welfare of the dogs. In my opinion that was also a point of contention and added fuel to the fire. Some felt that this person, with whatever their physical challange is, was not in the position of properly caring for these dogs. She'd already been a position where pups had been killed, due to this persons lack of prepardeness and education.

Several have stated that people are hesitant of asking questions, because they fear being jumped, bashed, whatever.....If questions are asked with good intentions for their dogs, one doesn't have to fear that. But, if questions are asked and advice is offered and one is not willing to take it, and will do what they are going to do anyway, why post your question. That is when YTers become passionate, angry and things get out of hand.

There are several other things in the OPers past posts that threw up red flags that revealed that she was not prepared to embark on her breeding program. Go back and read her posts. This person is in need of financial help, but, she is able to buy and accumulate more dogs to breed. Makes one think, but still not our place to judge. What is being judged is living off the backs of her dogs.

You are right!!! But none of that excuses the personal attacks on her. I'm absolutely sure she learned a great deal on that thread, but not all of what she learned was positive.. Even after she said she was going to rehome the dog, she was still attacked.

As for the hard work taking care of a litter of puppies. Maybe she has a friend or relative that comes in to help her. Many breeders work, they are not home 24/7 to care for the puppies. She doesn't work, she has 24/7 to devote to caring for them.

That thread revealed a whole lot more than peoples passion and concern for the the dog. And that is sad.

If you feel they are not learning than walk away. But the responses in that thread only taught people not to ask questions. After the first few pages there was no more educating going on.

Seriously, if you read that thread as a newbie, thinking of asking a question, what would you have learned?