My Thoughts after a year of YT

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by yorkie2luv

I have never had a tiff either. I just watch others have them

WOW...that's great! The majority of us get worked up over something at one point or another, but that's wonderfu that you haven't. But my goodness....this post kind of exceeds a little "tiff", don't you think??

I guess I am going to be one of those that you have labeled as judgemental now. I am not trying to be mean...I just wish that people wouldn't start threads like this. YT is soooooo fun and this is an escape for some. Just to have a great time talking about their fur kids.

I wish you luck and I hope that you are able to enjoy the board more this year than the past one.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I understand your opinions on the issues you have mentioned and you are certainly entitled to them, as we all are. What I find ironic about it is that in posting what you have, you yourself have done the same thing that you are admonishing others for. (An observation that I think Ann actually beat me to.)

What I have found in my years on both this forum, and the other is this: Opinions differ, especially when topics are brought up that people feel so passionately about--a differance of opinions is inevitable. What you or someone else views as "no big deal" or "too late to do anything about" others may feel differently about. Bottom line is, it's the internet, a public forum and we are all different. You can like it or dislike opinions and posting styles as you see fit, but you can't change or control them nor should it be expected that everyone else is going to change their ways to suit others.

EXACTLY.

Originally Posted by yorkie2luv

I'm blessed for YT for 2 reasons. 1. Finding my Kikyo and 2. The knowledge that has helped me in being the best Yorkie Parent possible. So for that I'm thankful.

Okay...now...I'm TOTALLY CONFUSED about where you're coming from ...?

Originally Posted by RoscoesMommy42

I do agree with some of what you are saying. I see some threads that I just have to sit back in aww about how worked up it gets. But, like others have said, people have different opinions. I do think sometimes they can be stated a little more calmly, but sometimes when you are passionate about something it comes out strong. Also, I think when you are speaking to someone through typing, it can be taken differently than how it is meant, which then gets things heated for no reason. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

[yorkie2luv]

Originally Posted by RoscoesMommy42

I do agree with some of what you are saying. I see some threads that I just have to sit back in aww about how worked up it gets. But, like others have said, people have different opinions. I do think sometimes they can be stated a little more calmly, but sometimes when you are passionate about something it comes out strong. Also, I think when you are speaking to someone through typing, it can be taken differently than how it is meant, which then gets things heated for no reason. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

Absolutely Agree - It's like texting. You may mean it one way and someone takes it another.

[yorkie2luv]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

EXACTLY.



Okay...now...I'm TOTALLY CONFUSED about where you're coming from ...?

****
LOL. it's a phone call. If you want my # I can hopefully explain better...LOL. sorry to confuse ya'.

[danyellm]

While I agree with most of your points with the exception of points 5,6 &7
I think we all have the rights to our own opinions and just need to take others with a grain of salt...hope you feel 10 pounds lighter for getting that off your chest

[ranant12]

I think one of the things that gets to people is the fact that they do not understand why reputable breeders feel as strongly as they do about not breeding dogs that aren't up to standard.

I know that posting stories that have actually happened to you may take longer to type, but I do believe that some people need to hear actual stories to understand better why a person feels the way they do. (Sorry if I'm not making sense, I'm exhausted today)

For example: When a person responds to a post by a newbie that's thinking about having "just one litter", the reputable breeders need to give actual stories that back up their reasons for not doing the behavior mentioned.

Lots of people get an attitude if they feel like they are being told not to do something (i.e. breed yorkies) by a person that is currently "breeding yorkies". They need to hear heartfelt examples of the dangers that can come from breeding, so that they don't feel like they are being attacked.

This goes for other issues also. Lots of new people post questions without ever having read through any of the hundreds of post that are on YT. Therefore they need to be informed in a respectful but firm way so that they aren't scared away, only to do what they want to anyway, but with even less information.

As far as papers are concerned, AKC has many flaws and I know many people with AKC papers that are attached to a dog that looks more like a German Shepard than a yorkie. However, they make some effort to enforce there rules and try to maintain breed standards. CKC, ACA, etc. are just not up to par. You can register a goat with CKC and call it a yorkie. Papers do not ensure a purebred dog, but AKC at least gives you a little better chance of actually getting what you paid for.

As far as I'm concerned the best place to get a dog is to rescue one. Craigslist has yorkies listed daily that desperately need new homes. But this is all just my opinion.

[yorkie2luv]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

WOW...that's great! The majority of us get worked up over something at one point or another, but that's wonderfu that you haven't. But my goodness....this post kind of exceeds a little "tiff", don't you think??

I guess I am going to be one of those that you have labeled as judgemental now. I am not trying to be mean...I just wish that people wouldn't start threads like this. YT is soooooo fun and this is an escape for some. Just to have a great time talking about their fur kids.

I wish you luck and I hope that you are able to enjoy the board more this year than the past one.

*****
No not labeling you as "mean" for saying that. This is not intended to "bring down" the mood of YT. Not my intention at all. My apologies to all that feel the same way.

Thank you for the luck and I didn't "not" enjoy the board please don't think that. I just felt for those who didn't enjoy it as much from what I noticed - that's all.

[yorkie2luv]

Originally Posted by danyellm

While I agree with most of your points with the exception of points 5,6 &7
I think we all have the rights to our own opinions and just need to take others with a grain of salt...hope you feel 10 pounds lighter for getting that off your chest

Gotcha' and I think I'm about 25lbs lighter. So much for New Year diets...LOL

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by danyellm

While I agree with most of your points with the exception of points 5,6 &7
I think we all have the rights to our own opinions and just need to take others with a grain of salt...hope you feel 10 pounds lighter for getting that off your chest

You are AWESOME ! It's a new DIET for 2010 !

Great points...take away the good you can, try not to let the negative get your panties in a bundle, don't pour fuel on fires, POUR FUEL ON THE POSITIVE .

HELP and SUPPORT your fellow creatures - furry and non-furry!

[yorkie2luv]

Originally Posted by ranant12

I think one of the things that gets to people is the fact that they do not understand why reputable breeders feel as strongly as they do about not breeding dogs that aren't up to standard.

I know that posting stories that have actually happened to you may take longer to type, but I do believe that some people need to hear actual stories to understand better why a person feels the way they do. (Sorry if I'm not making sense, I'm exhausted today)

For example: When a person responds to a post by a newbie that's thinking about having "just one litter", the reputable breeders need to give actual stories that back up their reasons for not doing the behavior mentioned.

Lots of people get an attitude if they feel like they are being told not to do something (i.e. breed yorkies) by a person that is currently "breeding yorkies". They need to hear heartfelt examples of the dangers that can come from breeding, so that they don't feel like they are being attacked.

This goes for other issues also. Lots of new people post questions without ever having read through any of the hundreds of post that are on YT. Therefore they need to be informed in a respectful but firm way so that they aren't scared away, only to do what they want to anyway, but with even less information.

As far as papers are concerned, AKC has many flaws and I know many people with AKC papers that are attached to a dog that looks more like a German Shepard than a yorkie. However, they make some effort to enforce there rules and try to maintain breed standards. CKC, ACA, etc. are just not up to par. You can register a goat with CKC and call it a yorkie. Papers do not ensure a purebred dog, but AKC at least gives you a little better chance of actually getting what you paid for.

As far as I'm concerned the best place to get a dog is to rescue one. Craigslist has yorkies listed daily that desperately need new homes. But this is all just my opinion.

**********

Got it! I haven't been on the end of the don't do list simply because I was well read and had a great breeder for a 1st time owner. Then it helps that my husband works w/ animal rights, etc.

I definitely agree with saying sternly, it's just the saying nasty part that doesn't come off right.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by yorkie2luv

Ok, let me preference this by saying. I've taken a few breaks from here over the past year or so. I wanted to express some things to everyone that I have noticed when reading through the boards and if I get banned from YT so be it.

I initially came to YT like so many others from searching the web and reading so much information after deciding the Yorkshire Terrier breed is the breed for me. I know there are some folks that just want a yorkie because it's the fad thing to do and they come here but that doesn't mean they would be less of a puppy parent. Sometimes it is those same naive parents who transition into what I call the Ultimate YT-er. Now this "Ultimate" title doesn't just fit here as I'm a member of a community service sorority and many other professional organizations and it is the same everywhere.

There are some really kind and good folks that are scarred off of this board. This is truly shameful as this board from my understanding is meant to do the following:
1. Educate
2. Promote healthy relationships among yorkie owners and/or those desiring to be owners
3. Find homes for yorkies
4. Support each other

I'm not saying these things don't occur, I'm just saying that too many people put external things in the way of this. Sad part is there are rules and guidelines that have been listed and established to do assist in policing these things. I think some have been to far involved in the dramatics they forgot these rules and need to re-read them again or be reminded of them.

I have a few suggestions as many do but again the moderators are doing their best so I'm putting this out to the members old and new. If I say something that offends someone, my bad but then again the truth is the truth and I can only reference what I have read recently as these things are fresh in my mind.

Here are some things I've noticed:

1. If someone posts a yorkie for adoption/sale that doesn't have papers, or something you don't agree with - Why are you posting your opinions on the color, how old they are etc.? - The point of the post is to find a home, who cares about your opinion. Isn't it true that we want animals to be happy, healthy and well taken care of? So let someone do that. I think direct questions should be asked in PM. I've noticed there are many threads that don't get a response because people are scared off by the nastiness, etc. Ideally we want these animals to have loving homes. Stop hindering folks from doing that because you have a personal preference or issue you need to discuss on a listing.

2. When someone says they have a yorkie that is under 12 weeks old and ask a question not referencing age - just using it as a detail, why do people feel the need to speak about how reputable their breeder isn't for letting them go so early. WHO CARES! At this point IT'S TOO LATE FOR THAT NOW. Now, it is those who are more experienced opportunity to help this person with their issue. NEWS FLASH: There are people around the world who still let yorkies go at 8 weeks and have for years. Standards change throughout the years - y'all know that so if someone has been doing it for 25yrs and didn't change to the new standard then that is ok. Take human's for example it use to be ok to have baby at 14 - 18 yrs of age and be married young. Now, it isn't to some. Doesn't make people any less of a human being.
Yes, it is understood breeding standards are this and that but really people they already have the puppy let it go!

3. When asked about traveling with a puppy or something and people ask for insight, they don't ask you to be rude and go: "I would never do so and so..." The person didn't ask you what you would do, they asked have you or can you tell them how, etc.

4. When people ask about registries, etc.? Please stop telling people what is the best, etc. People just want to know what all the fuss is about when it comes to if their dog is registered. I think many of you forgot that the foundation of all is KENNEL. I know ... I know the purity of the breed, etc. Well if it is all about that then in all honesty people Universal Kennel Club (est. 1938) should be the one everyone is fighting about. Just note all kennel clubs have those members that are unacceptable such as puppy mills etc., so stating that a younger organization isn't as good, etc. is ridiculous. Again, standards change and it takes that 1 person to make a move for a change and then everyone follows. In music there SESC, BMI and ASCAP. People have their preferences for different reasons but it doesn't mean one is "less acceptable" than the other. Remember that!

5. Last the USDA list. I have a problem with people having an issue with breeders that are such. Again there will always be bad ones in the bunch but if we purchase and won't eat food unless it's USDA certified then why is there the same issue with those who actually were evaluated and are USDA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there are some places that slip through the cracks. Yet, that is anywhere and with anything. This doesn't make people horrible breeders. Just research them and judge them, not the stigma.

6. Someone asks about a breeder and sends a website and people go oh the site says and does this...etc. Again, I work in web, etc. so look not everyone has the best tools to make the greatest website and honestly many of the sites I've seen don't meet web standards! That's not the point I'm making, just because the site has minimal info on it or they use buzz words such as "teacup" doesn't mean they are a bad breeder. Remember this is an outlet to find their puppies homes and they are competing among many. The word "teacup" in goolge is a high ranking word and those people looking for a puppy don't know it's bad it's just how they have seen it described thus people describing it the same way. To really understand the person selling the puppy one must call and speak to them. Understand their heart. Some of the older folks don't know the correct terms, have AKC, UKC, registered dogs and love them no less. The just raise them the way they were taught to raise them. You will know and if unsure have a friend call asking questions and compare notes.

7. Puppy Mill dogs...I know not a good thing for them to be from a puppy mill but what is the point of rescuing them if you aren't going to help or adopt them. You rescue them to kill? I have a problem with this and then those that fuss at members who obtained a dog from a backyard breeder (they may not have known that is what they were until here) or got a dog from a pet store. If no one takes or gets these dogs, then what? We just keep killing animals to have population control? I know some folks end up with a sickly dogs and bills but honestly people, if you were pregnant and had a baby that was sick, would you just give up? People who come here as stated before already have the dog now, let's help them take care and keep them.

Let me leave you all with this. Animals are gifts that we should treasure and always think if I don't do it, who will.

Blessings!!!!

I do my best to avoid the heated threads, either because someone else has already made the point I'd want to make or because it's just pointless. There are many times I wish others would just back off and let things drop. But, I do see some of myself in the items you've listed above that I'd like to address. Before I do, I want to stress the four main areas you feel are the purpose of this forum because I agree completely. And, the #1 goal is to EDUCATE. You can't help do that if you don't answer questions when they're asked, or if you don't ask the tough questions that need to be asked. On that note:

1) I have questioned a few breeders on their Yorkies for Sale threads because something about their posts alarmed me. I "have a problem" with people who are not upfront and honest about the yorkies they are offering to members here on YT. I ask the questions I do because I believe everyone has a right to determine the morals, ethics and reliability of the breeders they choose to buy from and a lot of times new members won't know to ask these questions. Would you want a loved one to purchase a yorkie from someone who had knowingly purchased a yorkie on limited registration, went 6 years without neutering him and the came on with their first ever YT post as having a litter for sale? That person is not an ethical breeder and that needed to be brought out into the open for the good of any member thinking of contacting her about a puppy.

2) I don't normally jump on the "at least 12 weeks old" bandwagon, although I do agree with other members who do bring it up. Why? Because while you're right - it's usually too late for the OP, it is NOT too late to educate someone else who may be looking for a yorkie puppy and who may be reading those threads.

6) If someone posts a question asking for opinions, why are you opposed to members giving those opinions?

7) Puppy mill dogs..."people who come here already have the dog" - usually true for those OP's. But, as I said on point #2, it is NOT too late to educate someone else who may be looking for a yorkie puppy and who may be reading those threads.

I am not trying to be argumentative, as I agree with some of the things you say in your post. Although, just because I didn't discuss it above doesn't mean there aren't other points I disagree with...I just don't feel I'm knowlegeable enough to address them in the way they should be discussed. My point is simply to offer another point of view on why some members continue, and will continue, to beat the same drum over and over again - to EDUCATE those who may not know.

[RoscoesMommy42]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

You are AWESOME ! It's a new DIET for 2010 !

Great points...take away the good you can, try not to let the negative get your panties in a bundle, don't pour fuel on fires, POUR FUEL ON THE POSITIVE .

HELP and SUPPORT your fellow creatures - furry and non-furry!

LOVE that!

[yorkie2luv]

Originally Posted by bonbon

I do my best to avoid the heated threads, either because someone else has already made the point I'd want to make or because it's just pointless. There are many times I wish others would just back off and let things drop. But, I do see some of myself in the items you've listed above that I'd like to address. Before I do, I want to stress the four main areas you feel are the purpose of this forum because I agree completely. And, the #1 goal is to EDUCATE. You can't help do that if you don't answer questions when they're asked, or if you don't ask the tough questions that need to be asked. On that note:

1) I have questioned a few breeders on their Yorkies for Sale threads because something about their posts alarmed me. I "have a problem" with people who are not upfront and honest about the yorkies they are offering to members here on YT. I ask the questions I do because I believe everyone has a right to determine the morals, ethics and reliability of the breeders they choose to buy from and a lot of times new members won't know to ask these questions. Would you want a loved one to purchase a yorkie from someone who had knowingly purchased a yorkie on limited registration, went 6 years without neutering him and the came on with their first ever YT post as having a litter for sale? That person is not an ethical breeder and that needed to be brought out into the open for the good of any member thinking of contacting her about a puppy.

Let me clarify this is in reference to the sale of the puppy. This is cool it is those who go off of that topic. What you ask is fine it is how it is asked is the difference.

2) I don't normally jump on the "at least 12 weeks old" bandwagon, although I do agree with other members who do bring it up. Why? Because while you're right - it's usually too late for the OP, it is NOT too late to educate someone else who may be looking for a yorkie puppy and who may be reading those threads.

I didn't look at it as such, but when someone is asking if I should take 10 week old puppy somewhere it isn't a belief of mine that they should be reminded about having the puppy earlier than 12 weeks.

6) If someone posts a question asking for opinions, why are you opposed to members giving those opinions?
Usually when this is posted it is not an opinion it is what is the difference? They are usually looking for definition because they aren't getting it clearly from the websites, etc. So they figure asking people who are members of these organization would be better. I would honestly expect people who are members of the specific organization to clarify not people who are a member of another to comment on an organization. For instance, I can say Zeta Delta is the best because it is the first and more people use them so don't go to Sigma Alpha as they aren't as good or I could say - Zeta Delta sets standards that are followed by 80% of the U.S. etc., etc. Most people like to use them because ...

7) Puppy mill dogs..."people who come here already have the dog" - usually true for those OP's. But, as I said on point #2, it is NOT too late to educate someone else who may be looking for a yorkie puppy and who may be reading those threads.

I answered on #2

I am not trying to be argumentative, as I agree with some of the things you say in your post. Although, just because I didn't discuss it above doesn't mean there aren't other points I disagree with...I just don't feel I'm knowlegeable enough to address them in the way they should be discussed. My point is simply to offer another point of view on why some members continue, and will continue, to beat the same drum over and over again - to EDUCATE those who may not know.

I don't feel you being argumentative at all. If anything this is an example of healthy communication - thank you for that.

I'd do the same thing with showing another point of view. No worries.

*****

I'm going to do my best to respond above to each one. Man I tell ya' I'm supposed to be working... Responses in Purple

[yorkie2luv]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

You are AWESOME ! It's a new DIET for 2010 !

Great points...take away the good you can, try not to let the negative get your panties in a bundle, don't pour fuel on fires, POUR FUEL ON THE POSITIVE .

HELP and SUPPORT your fellow creatures - furry and non-furry!

Now if All folks could have healthy dialogue like this ... Everything would be peachy!!!

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by yorkie2luv

This is not intended to "bring down" the mood of YT.

Maybe that is not what you indended, but it is certainly how it seems to come across...

Originally Posted by yorkie2luv

If I get banned from YT so be it.

There are a few Ultimate YT-ers that are on here that make it their duty to constantly and consistently down talk, impose ideals on posts people make that have NOTHING to do with what was asked.

there should be new threads and old threads that have posts unrelated that need to just be removed as they show the pettiness and harshness that exists on this board.

But if a computer could generate the "Stuck up nose" image, it would be seen in how people express themselves on here.

I think some have been to far involved in the dramatics they forgot these rules and need to re-read them

1. If someone posts something you don't agree with - Why are you posting your opinions...who cares about your opinion.

WHO CARES! NEWS FLASH: There are people around the world who still let yorkies go at 8 weeks and have for years.

stop telling people what is the best, etc.

as "teacup" doesn't mean they are a bad breeder.

7. Puppy Mill dogs...what is the point of rescuing them if you aren't going to help or adopt them. I have a problem with this and then those that fuss at members who obtained a dog from a backyard breeder

Given that you are a very calm and understanding person, I hope you can see how maybe your own post can be conceived as insulting itself. I understand this is your opinion and do not fault you for expressing it...it all just seems to be a little hypocritical. (To be perfectly honest, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it either way, I don't agree with lots of opinions here, but I think people still have a right to voice them.)