breeding....show quality....?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Sawyers mommy

I am not certain; but don't some breeders keep a pup from an excellent line that may have a minor flaw that they breed with other dogs that are strong where that pup is weak in order to improve their line? Like a pup that is well bred; but may not have the best color can be bred to a dog with superb color to improve the line? Just asking, not arguing. I think every one should do all they can to keep the quality of yorkies as high as possible; but isn't breeding to improve the line an excepted practice?

Every breeder's program is different. But, to answer your question, yes. There are those that have larger kennels that do just what you say. Those beautiful females that are wonderful brood bitches (I hate that term) that produce beautiful specimens of the breed, but have never been Championed (this is done because the breeding time for a female is so short and a bitch should be bred the first time before the age of 3). So, if you have a larger kennel you can't show them all, but you don't want to sell those gems that are excellent brood bitches.

[adorame]

MyFairLacy, Your himalayan cat is beautiful! My mother used to own one when I was a little baby and she lived a nice long life , I was in 6th grade when she died. Her name was Musette. I think she was a blue point Himalayan if I am not mistaken. I have always thought they were pretty cats.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by adorame

MyFairLacy, Your himalayan cat is beautiful! My mother used to own one when I was a little baby and she lived a nice long life , I was in 6th grade when she died. Her name was Musette. I think she was a blue point Himalayan if I am not mistaken. I have always thought they were pretty cats.

Thank you I Love her and think she's gorgeous. She's got a great personality too. She's so sweet.

I have a seal point named Kira too. She came from another show breeder 8 years ago, but she's a mess...allergies and behavioral issues. But I love her too. But she prooves that not all show breeders are reputable and knows what they are doing (although I think most are and do). Her breeder was just starting out in showing at the time which I just recently found out (I was only 14 when I got her so I didn't know much at the time).

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Let me explain a bit here. And I can only explain from my experiences. I breed 1 or 2 litters a year for myself in search for my next Champion to add to my breeding program. Now in doing this I'm breeding in hopes to breed the 1 dog that has that special "It" factor. That doesn't mean that the rest of the puppies aren't up to standard but they don't have that special look at me "I'm It" quality and "I dare you not to put me up".....that quality is very necessary and part of the standard. The sad thing about this is that I can't keep all the puppies, so those 3 or 4 puppies a year are placed in preapproved pet homes on a spay/nueter contract. Why? because I would have too many of the same pedigree and would be inbreeding.

Ok this is not meant to point you out Mardelin but you are the show breeder that posted so I will use this example. If all of these quality dogs are spayed and neutered except your one show dog you keep to better your breeding program which I assume is to get another dog to show and not for breeding purposes, how is this considered bettering the breed? Do you understand what I am asking or am I just confusing everone including myself. LOL.

[Winstin07]

If you ever need a cat sitter MyFairLacy, you can send the cats my way..

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

Ok this is not meant to point you out Mardelin but you are the show breeder that posted so I will use this example. If all of these quality dogs are spayed and neutered except your one show dog you keep to better your breeding program which I assume is to get another dog to show and not for breeding purposes, how is this considered bettering the breed? Do you understand what I am asking or am I just confusing everone including myself. LOL.

Yep! You are confusing me. But, I wouldn't keep a dog for show that I didn't have intentions of breeding. That would be wasting my money and showing is for the purpose to get approval of your breeding stock.
And as was stated, there is no perfect dog. If you can't look at your dog with a critical eye, you're kennel blind. I look at each of my dogs, yes even my Champions and see something I would love to improve on. Whether it be up on leg, coat color, lay back in the shoulders, a gait, an ear set that is just so slightly off, a stop that I'm not happy with or the angulation that is just a wee bit off......

It was told to me, by my mentor if you can see 3 faults in a dog, don't show it, the judge will find more. It's the old 3 strikes your out.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Winstin07

If you ever need a cat sitter MyFairLacy, you can send the cats my way..

haha..Ohio is pretty far but thanks for the offer. I actually just got an e-mail today from my pet-sitting service saying they're retiring starting October 1. I was shocked. They've only taken care of my cats once but I was so pleased with them. Now I have to find a new one...

[mizzwanned]

I am also 20 and also am learning all i can about breeding cause in the future when i have my own house, with a big back yard and tons of space i plan on breeding Yorkies. I love the breed, and it's something that i would love to do. I will never breed any of my 3 dogs that i have now but when i am ready i am going to get breeding quality AKC yorkies, that meet the standards and go for it. It will only be though after i know everything i can about breeding. Also i will not have a whole bunch or anything crazy like that...they will be my pets first, my family and i will not find them homes when they can no longer breed, they will forever be with me and i will love them just as i love all of mine. I always feel so bad when some are rehomed just 'cause they cannot breed anymore I think it's the most amazing experience to breed but it should be for ppl that def. know what they are doing. I think you are doing the right thing, by asking all these questions before you actually breed. I wish you the best There are tons of amazing breeders here that can help you

[Winstin07]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

haha..Ohio is pretty far but thanks for the offer. I actually just got an e-mail today from my pet-sitting service saying they're retiring starting October 1. I was shocked. They've only taken care of my cats once but I was so pleased with them. Now I have to find a new one...

Hmmm. Winstin and I could fly there to cat sit.
See we have it all planned out for you. Hubby could watch the big girls for me.

[doortego]

Originally Posted by kelsie123186

From what I have heard (and once again I am just a stupid newbie trying to gather as much knowledge as possible) Good breeders will not sell their "show quality" pups to anyone but people who are going to show... ls this true?

I'm another one who does not show or breed, but I do have an opinion, I think you will be able to buy a very good quality pup from a show breeder on a spay/neuter contract if you aren't intending to show. Sometimes, the price difference is not that great either and your pup may be more healthy as well which can more than make up for the price difference. I am only going by my personal experience. I bought my Yorkie from a small kennel (no one on YT) and I believe that I was misled & my pup was most probably too young to leave her mom & came to me with coccidiosis. I paid more for her (who I also neutered even though it was not required) than I did the Maltese pup that I bought from a show breeder. I did not get him until after he was neutered and he hasn't had a minutes problem and is a much more well adjusted puppy. I know that my one experience does not make a rule and I am not trying to make one. Just giving you my experience.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by kelsie123186

From what I have heard (and once again I am just a stupid newbie trying to gather as much knowledge as possible) Good breeders will not sell their "show quality" pups to anyone but people who are going to show... ls this true?

Actually show breeders keep their show quality pups for themselves, but on rare occassions will sell one to another show person who will Champion the dog or to a very, very deserving, trustworth, ethical newbie, but with a strict contract.

[kelsie123186]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Actually show breeders keep their show quality pups for themselves, but on rare occassions will sell one to another show person who will Champion the dog or to a very, very deserving, trustworth, ethical newbie, but with a strict contract.

so basically based on the majority of posters i am just SOL if I want to coincider breeding? I mean, this is what I am gathering from the posts...
1.If I want to breed I should not do it unless I get a show quality yorkie
2.Show breeders keep their show quality pups for themselves....
Im not trying to be rude but i really dont get it... I would really like to hear how the breeders (that believe you should only breed show quality yorkies) got into breeding/showing... I mean, like someone else said... its really like you are in between a rock and a hard place.... I dunno... like i said, i would really like to hear how the people that only breed show quality got into it all in the first place.

[YorkyDiva]

Question...............If a show breeder has a litter and 3 of 4 are not show quality and they champion the one show quality dog then breed that dog that has the culls that are siblings how will that better the breed?

[yorkiies4u]

I'm a yorkie breeder and being such I seem to have a semi-unique way of seeing the yorkie breed. First, the reason for showing a dog is to detemine if it is worthy of breeding. This is the reason why you cannot show a spayed/neutered dog. I have just recently had a puppy that I believe to be show worthy, which is why all puppies that I sell have a strict spay/neuter contract and are sold as pets. Occasionally I have a top quality puppy that I am willing to trade for an equally quality puppy in order to bring new lines into my breeding stock. The entire reason for breeding yorkies is to further the breed. I guess it's the old addage about quality and not quantity. I would go so far as to say that if a dog does not meet the standard it should not be allowed in the AKC registry. There are so many things that keep dogs from meeting the breed standard, but that is the whole reason for a standard isn't it. I mean, come on, why have a standard if so few people are interested in raising the bar to meet it.
As it is, my 5.5lb female had a beautiful litter of 6 with 3 males and 3 females. We are keeping two of the show quality puppies and we have already sold all but one of the remaining puppies. Because he is such high quality, we are willing to trade him for a comperable female. It's all about the breed. Those of us on YT who want to keep only the best dogs for breeding are not saying that anyone's dogs are not quality animals, but most of them are not what we would consider proper for breeding. Think of it this way, don't you see your dog as a member of your family? Wouldn't you want your son or daughter to end up with the best and the brightest? So do we, and we only want our "babies" to end up with the best. This is why we breed the best to the best.

[YorkyDiva]

Originally Posted by yorkiies4u

I'm a yorkie breeder and being such I seem to have a semi-unique way of seeing the yorkie breed. First, the reason for showing a dog is to detemine if it is worthy of breeding. This is the reason why you cannot show a spayed/neutered dog. I have just recently had a puppy that I believe to be show worthy, which is why all puppies that I sell have a strict spay/neuter contract and are sold as pets. Occasionally I have a top quality puppy that I am willing to trade for an equally quality puppy in order to bring new lines into my breeding stock. The entire reason for breeding yorkies is to further the breed. I guess it's the old addage about quality and not quantity. I would go so far as to say that if a dog does not meet the standard it should not be allowed in the AKC registry. There are so many things that keep dogs from meeting the breed standard, but that is the whole reason for a standard isn't it. I mean, come on, why have a standard if so few people are interested in raising the bar to meet it.
As it is, my 5.5lb female had a beautiful litter of 6 with 3 males and 3 females. We are keeping two of the show quality puppies and we have already sold all but one of the remaining puppies. Because he is such high quality, we are willing to trade him for a comperable female. It's all about the breed. Those of us on YT who want to keep only the best dogs for breeding are not saying that anyone's dogs are not quality animals, but most of them are not what we would consider proper for breeding. Think of it this way, don't you see your dog as a member of your family? Wouldn't you want your son or daughter to end up with the best and the brightest? So do we, and we only want our "babies" to end up with the best. This is why we breed the best to the best.

Well said, but some are saying that if a dog is not show quality then it should not be bred. So in my scenario 3 out of 4 dogs are culls and only one is show quality. So if you breed that show quality dog, chances are that 3 out of 4 of its offspring are culls also. BUT in the show world, aren't you breeding bad traits into your future generations in that 3 out of 4 are cull dogs? Thus would you really call that "The betterment of the breed"?