breeding....show quality....? - Page 9 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Mardelin · 09-20-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

sweetyblue is a good website to check out pics of show dogs and gives lots of information about who is who in the show world. You can find links to some very good kennels and top show breeders in the world. Very interesting stuff.

Sweety Blue is a wonderful site but, focuses on the European shows and dogs. The big show they attend in the US is the YTCA National and Westminster held in February.

CO_yorkie_momma · 09-20-2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Sweety Blue is a wonderful site but, focuses on the European shows and dogs. The big show they attend in the US is the YTCA National and Westminster held in February.

True but I love looking at all of the beautiful dogs and seeing what is winning in the other countries too. I like seeing what breeders are considered the top 20 and which dogs have the most points. I love that site. Makes me really want to get into the showing end even more.

trini&coco · 09-20-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

only bad thing about that is, from what I have been reading on another thread, a lot of the judges don't even know the standard anymore. so is it any wonder people get confused. i don't believe anyone is taking issue with remarks being made that people should have their dogs evluated by a judge. that is a great thing to do and I don't believe anyone is taking issue with the statement that all breeders should breed tobetter the breed. that's true. they should. the part I have a problem with is her saying that you shouldn't even breed unless you show because you don't even know the standard. Well, pardon me, but i do know the standard. i know it well and was just a few minutes ago studying in more detail. I study the standard every day and try to commit it to memory as best I can. There is not a day goes by that i don't learn something new. it's just like with me being a retired R.N., when i first graduated, I thought I knew more than the doctors but it wasn't until I actually got the hands on that I knew just how little I did know that's the way I feel about a lot of this stuff on here.

trini&coco · 09-20-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

You need to know the lines you are breeding, know the background of every dog within that pedigree. Yes, you may only have 1 dog out of every 6 litters that has that "It" factor. You spay/nueter the rest, they are perfectly sound, good specimans of the breed, but are lacking the "IT" factor (a presence about themselves in their temperament. Keep that one for showing and breeding, keeping the rest would only mean you are over running your kennel with dogs and putting an undue burden on yourself. That doesn't mean the other 3 aren't worth of being bred, as they come from a long line of quality dogs, it just means you are selective in keeping your kennel down to a manageable level.

That is the post I have been waiting for...

crystalsmom · 09-20-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

You need to know the lines you are breeding, know the background of every dog within that pedigree. Yes, you may only have 1 dog out of every 6 litters that has that "It" factor. You spay/nueter the rest, they are perfectly sound, good specimans of the breed, but are lacking the "IT" factor (a presence about themselves in their temperament. Keep that one for showing and breeding, keeping the rest would only mean you are over running your kennel with dogs and putting an undue burden on yourself. That doesn't mean the other 3 aren't worth of being bred, as they come from a long line of quality dogs, it just means you are selective in keeping your kennel down to a manageable level.

That last sentence I don't quite understand? Certainly there are plenty of times that you do have pet quality that is being spayed and neutered. Just because it comes from a good or great line doesn't mean every dog will be
one you would breed. I may have misunderstood.

BamaFan121s · 09-20-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

her statement from her first post on this thread is what I take issue with. None of the rest matters. below are her exact words.

"By breeding non-show quality (or pet quality) dogs, you are not breeding to the standard and definitely not improving the breed'

The reason that bothers me is that she is saying that unless you show or have show dogs, your not breeding to standard. i beg to differ on that. show people aren't the only ones that have in standard dogs. i think most of the people on Yt do have dogs that are in standard

Yeah...? Still, she never said you HAVE to show. I guess it is all up to how you choose to interpret it and what you want to make it out to be. I saw nothing wrong with that statement. I personally consider 'show quality dog' to mean a dog that is a great representation of the breed that meets the standards better than the average--that can be done without actuallly setting foot in the ring. I take pet quality to mean dogs that don't meet the standard and are just that...pet quality...are you saying they should be bred?

Again, guess it just depends on how you are choosing to interpret the use of the term 'show dog.' Would it be better to say 'excellent representation that meets the AKC defined standard?'

trini&coco · 09-20-2007, 01:59 PM

She said: "The majority of breeders, including those on YT, are not show-breeders...that is why there are so many yorkies out there that do not meet the yorkie standard." which later was corrected by "I did say that if the dog isn't shown, it should at least be evaluated by a show breeder or judge. Obviously not everyone is going to be interested in showing, but the dog should at least be evaluated to meet the standard. I never said anything about her having to show the dog anyway. I said the dog should be show-quality (ie. would do well in the show ring IF shown)." There were a few more iffy comments that were thrown out there...

The offensive part is "The majority of breeders, including those on YT, are not show-breeders...that is why there are so many yorkies out there that do not meet the yorkie standard."

I believe what Sugar's Mom is saying and I agree, that yes, there are breeders who do not breed to the standard (and they should not breed) but then there are breeders who do follow standard and choose not to show. That does not mean their breeding stock is not show quality or does not conform to the breed standard. If it was not a direct attack at people who don't show and still breed, then at the very least it was a careless use of words (in that phrase). I believe she went on to better explain her beliefs and it's all good...

I agree it would be great to go to shows, get a mentour and learn the inside and outs from the best but that is not as easy done as said. I myself am very interested in showing in th enear future. I am curently working toward learning as much as I can as I know Sugar's Mom is as well and I respect her and her breeding program.

BamaFan121s · 09-20-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trini&coco

I believe what Sugar's Mom is saying and I agree, that yes, there are breeders who do not breed to the standard (and they should not breed) but then there are breeders who do follow standard and choose not to show. That does not mean their breeding stock is not show quality or does not conform to the breed standard. If it was not a direct attack at people who don't show and still breed, then at the very least it was a careless use of words (in that phrase). I believe she went on to better explain her beliefs and it's all good...

You are right, she went on to better explain herself, so why is it still an issue? I think we are all guilty of poorly choosing our words at some point or another. She explained what she meant and I don't think anyone had a problem with that, just maybe the way she presented it.... And yes, I believe the majority here are in agreement with the points you made above...didn't see where that was questioned...

yorkiekist · 09-20-2007, 03:15 PM

Most of the breeders I know that put adds in the yorkshire terrier magazine sell their pups on limited/spay/neuter contracts. If you want a show prospect, it is co-owned and with a breeding/show contract. Lynn

Mardelin · 09-20-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Most of the breeders I know that put adds in the yorkshire terrier magazine sell their pups on limited/spay/neuter contracts. If you want a show prospect, it is co-owned and with a breeding/show contract. Lynn

Very strict pet and/or show contracts.

Mardelin · 09-20-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

You are right, she went on to better explain herself, so why is it still an issue? I think we are all guilty of poorly choosing our words at some point or another. She explained what she meant and I don't think anyone had a problem with that, just maybe the way she presented it.... And yes, I believe the majority here are in agreement with the points you made above...didn't see where that was questioned...

AMEN.

crystalsmom · 09-20-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Most of the breeders I know that put adds in the yorkshire terrier magazine sell their pups on limited/spay/neuter contracts. If you want a show prospect, it is co-owned and with a breeding/show contract. Lynn

I was going to say the same but I have lost interest in people who care less about learning anything. My Fair Lacy taught all on this thread alot and so her words got a little fumbled.

Everyone has their right to an opinion but after it has been explained over and over it get alittle much!!!!!!!!!!

Mardelin · 09-20-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalsmom

That last sentence I don't quite understand? Certainly there are plenty of times that you do have pet quality that is being spayed and neutered. Just because it comes from a good or great line doesn't mean every dog will be
one you would breed. I may have misunderstood.

My last litter of 3; 2 boys and 1 girl. The girl is what I had my heart set on, but her bite went off, so I petted her out. The 2 boys were both show quality, but I didn't need them since I still have their sire. One went to a show home, the other, though a beautiful speciman of the breed, went to a pet home, finding them the best homes possible is my primary objective.

MyFairLacy · 09-20-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

THIS is one of the few posts that actually explained a huge issue quite simply. Thank you, Lynn.

Ya know what makes me crazy on these threads? I get so sick and tired of hearing SOME (not all!!!) breeders say they breed "to better the breed" - when there are CLEARLY so many breeders who do not.

There are breeders on here whose dams and sires are there for all to see - and they have too-big ears, non-standard coat colors, a longer snout and on and on. And yet they say they're breeding to standard and are "bettering the breed".

I think all yorkies are cute - standard and non-standard, but I tell ya, I really become exasperated by claims of "I breed to better the breed" by those who are not doing so. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the breeders on here who really do have a top-notch program, it's pretty cool to hear from them on these threads.

crystalsmom · 09-20-2007, 04:08 PM

Thanks Mardelin, I understand now. That's how I got my Champion 10 yrs ago from someone who knew I would give her a good home. She was 3 yrs old at the time. I have been studying the breed for over 10 yrs and love to keep up with things. At one point I wanted to breed but decided if I couldn't do it right I would be better off doing something else.

I love the breed though and know people like you and others like Yorkie Rose help our breed immensily. Joan

09-20-2007, 01:59 PM	#127
trini&coco Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,340	She said: "The majority of breeders, including those on YT, are not show-breeders...that is why there are so many yorkies out there that do not meet the yorkie standard." which later was corrected by "I did say that if the dog isn't shown, it should at least be evaluated by a show breeder or judge. Obviously not everyone is going to be interested in showing, but the dog should at least be evaluated to meet the standard. I never said anything about her having to show the dog anyway. I said the dog should be show-quality (ie. would do well in the show ring IF shown)." There were a few more iffy comments that were thrown out there... The offensive part is "The majority of breeders, including those on YT, are not show-breeders...that is why there are so many yorkies out there that do not meet the yorkie standard." I believe what Sugar's Mom is saying and I agree, that yes, there are breeders who do not breed to the standard (and they should not breed) but then there are breeders who do follow standard and choose not to show. That does not mean their breeding stock is not show quality or does not conform to the breed standard. If it was not a direct attack at people who don't show and still breed, then at the very least it was a careless use of words (in that phrase). I believe she went on to better explain her beliefs and it's all good... I agree it would be great to go to shows, get a mentour and learn the inside and outs from the best but that is not as easy done as said. I myself am very interested in showing in th enear future. I am curently working toward learning as much as I can as I know Sugar's Mom is as well and I respect her and her breeding program. __________________ Shayley Pixie Gracie Coco Trini and Their Family We wub, wub, wub YT

09-20-2007, 03:15 PM	#129
yorkiekist YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: HOT, HOT, HOT AZ Posts: 3,150	yorkshire terrier magazine Most of the breeders I know that put adds in the yorkshire terrier magazine sell their pups on limited/spay/neuter contracts. If you want a show prospect, it is co-owned and with a breeding/show contract. Lynn

09-20-2007, 04:08 PM	#135
crystalsmom Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,946	Thanks Mardelin, I understand now. That's how I got my Champion 10 yrs ago from someone who knew I would give her a good home. She was 3 yrs old at the time. I have been studying the breed for over 10 yrs and love to keep up with things. At one point I wanted to breed but decided if I couldn't do it right I would be better off doing something else. I love the breed though and know people like you and others like Yorkie Rose help our breed immensily. Joan __________________