breeding....show quality....?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

THIS is one of the few posts that actually explained a huge issue quite simply. Thank you, Lynn.

Ya know what makes me crazy on these threads? I get so sick and tired of hearing SOME (not all!!!) breeders say they breed "to better the breed" - when there are CLEARLY so many breeders who do not.

There are breeders on here whose dams and sires are there for all to see - and they have too-big ears, non-standard coat colors, a longer snout and on and on. And yet they say they're breeding to standard and are "bettering the breed".

I think all yorkies are cute - standard and non-standard, but I tell ya, I really become exasperated by claims of "I breed to better the breed" by those who are not doing so. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the breeders on here who really do have a top-notch program, it's pretty cool to hear from them on these threads.

What bothers me most on these threads, is not other's breeding programs. To each their own.....but, that they become so defensive, instead of educational. Once the defensive and justification attitudes become combative the thread loses it's usefullness.

[MyFairLacy]

After reading today's posts, I wanted to add this: When show quality dogs are being bred, usually all puppies produced are great specimans of the breed. The ones placed in pet homes normally just have a couple flaws or as Mardelin said - doesn't have that "It" factor that they want to keep in their breeding program. For instance, my cat had one flaw - her nose was a little too long - so her breeder placed her in a pet home. That didn't mean she wasn't a good represantation of the breed, because she is..it meant she had a flaw that kept her from being the "best of the best". The "Pet-Quality" puppies born to two show-quality dogs will almost always be better specimans than the Pet-quality puppies born to two Pet-quality dogs. Those who breed show-quality dogs are bettering the breed because they are breeding the best of the best in attempts to get the best puppies they can. So they are continuously producing excellent puppies. Those that deviate from the standard are spay and neutered so that they aren't bred, because if you breed those two dogs with a few faults, you'll most likely get puppies with a few more faults. And then those puppies are bred and you'll get puppies with even more faults. Eventually you have puppies that are so far from standard that they don't look like yorkies anymore.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

What bothers me most on these threads, is not other's breeding programs. To each their own.....but, that they become so defensive, instead of educational. Once the defensive and justification attitudes become combative the thread loses it's usefullness.

Well, what bothers me on most of these threads and why I become defensive is when I see people saying that only show people should be breeding and the rest of us know nothing when I have put hundreds of hours in on studying and making sure I have nice dogs. And Mary, you know it's been said. Maybe not in those exact words but it has been said many times. i honestly have had no interest at all in showing until I got this pretty little girl I am going to try to show (if my money holds out). I just kind of feel like the good ones, like I try to be, and the bad ones, like I have seen often, are all lumped together when these blanket statements are made.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by crystalsmom

Thanks Mardelin, I understand now. That's how I got my Champion 10 yrs ago from someone who knew I would give her a good home. She was 3 yrs old at the time. I have been studying the breed for over 10 yrs and love to keep up with things. At one point I wanted to breed but decided if I couldn't do it right I would be better off doing something else.

I love the breed though and know people like you and others like Yorkie Rose help our breed immensily. Joan

Glad I could clarify myself to you.

I just love this breed.

Mary

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

Well, what bothers me on most of these threads and why I become defensive is when I see people saying that only show people should be breeding and the rest of us know nothing when I have put hundreds of hours in on studying and making sure I have nice dogs. And Mary, you know it's been said. Maybe not in those exact words but it has been said many times. i honestly have had no interest at all in showing until I got this pretty little girl I am going to try to show (if my money holds out). I just kind of feel like the good ones, like I try to be, and the bad ones, like I have seen often, are all lumped together when these blanket statements are made.

That has never come from me. What I have said is I have respect for all breeders that are doing it correctly........

Again, I will say defensive attitudes defeat the thread from being educational. Discussions should be objective, noncombative with the soul purpose of educating.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

That has never come from me. What I have said is I have respect for all breeders that are doing it correctly........

Again, I will say defensive attitudes defeat the thread from being educational. Discussions should be objective, noncombative with the soul purpose of educating.

I couldn't agree more. The way I see it if you get defensive then that defeats the purpose of it staying educational. With a thread like this defensiveness to me means something isn't kosher JMO don't throw a shoe at me LOL

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I couldn't agree more. The way I see it if you get defensive then that defeats the purpose of it staying educational. With a thread like this defensiveness to me means something isn't kosher JMO don't throw a shoe at me LOL

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

In my opinion, people only get defensive when they're doubting themselves. I mean, if you know without a doubt that you are doing the right thing, you feel good and secure about that and nothing anyone can say can make you doubt yourself. But when someone has even a smidge of doubt (even if they aren't necessarily aware of it)..that's when they start to get defensive. Or at least that's how I am anyway and what I've noticed about people I've been around anyway. I think threads like this are very educational. There was one that someone started about chocolates recently and at first it was a little heated but then it turned out to be very educational - with lots of info about colors, the standard, well-known breeders, etc.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I couldn't agree more. The way I see it if you get defensive then that defeats the purpose of it staying educational. With a thread like this defensiveness to me means something isn't kosher JMO don't throw a shoe at me LOL

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

No show throwing.......it would defeat the purpose.

You and I both know that our Code of Ethics and Conduct states that we are to educate and help. If we all came onto this forum with that in the forefront it would help newbies immensely

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

No show throwing.......it would defeat the purpose.

You and I both know that our Code of Ethics and Conduct states that we are to educate and help.

Yup, and education is what we all need. I have learned some things I didn't know and had to do some more studying just from reading on this thread myself!

Donna

[Amber_lv]

So just out of curiosity..... If a Hobby Breeder has there dogs evaluated by a show judge or even another show breeder and they deem them good specimens of the breed but the Hobby breeder doesn't want to show they just want to breed for the love of the breed is this considered inapropriate to everyone? If the dogs are good specimens of the breed should they not breed because they do not show? Again i'm just confused on what everyone thinks?? Not trying to start anything just curious thanks

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Amber_lv

So just out of curiosity..... If a Hobby Breeder has there dogs evaluated by a show judge or even another show breeder and they deem them good specimens of the breed but the Hobby breeder doesn't want to show they just want to breed for the love of the breed is this considered inapropriate to everyone? If the dogs are good specimens of the breed should they not breed because they do not show? Again i'm just confused on what everyone thinks?? Not trying to start anything just curious thanks

As long as it is done correctly and the person immersses theirselves in the breed, the decision is theirs alone. Nobody should tell you it is right or wrong.

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by Amber_lv

So just out of curiosity..... If a Hobby Breeder has there dogs evaluated by a show judge or even another show breeder and they deem them good specimens of the breed but the Hobby breeder doesn't want to show they just want to breed for the love of the breed is this considered inapropriate to everyone? If the dogs are good specimens of the breed should they not breed because they do not show? Again i'm just confused on what everyone thinks?? Not trying to start anything just curious thanks

I honestly believe it all depends on who you ask. There are long time breeders out there that think there are SOME ethical hobby breeders...then you have those that only see it in black and white.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Amber_lv

So just out of curiosity..... If a Hobby Breeder has there dogs evaluated by a show judge or even another show breeder and they deem them good specimens of the breed but the Hobby breeder doesn't want to show they just want to breed for the love of the breed is this considered inapropriate to everyone? If the dogs are good specimens of the breed should they not breed because they do not show? Again i'm just confused on what everyone thinks?? Not trying to start anything just curious thanks

As long as you breed to better the breed and aren't breeding pet quality to pet quality and have done all the necessary testing, pedigree studies then I see nothing wrong but it's hard to get a good show quality dog from a reputable breeder or should I say a show breeder if you do not plan to show. But if you stay with the standard and stay ethical then I see no problem. I would still like to see breeders show because showing of course is my passion. LOL
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[Amber_lv]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

As long as it is done correctly and the person immersses theirselves in the breed, the decision is theirs alone. Nobody should tell you it is right or wrong.

That is a great answer! I must say out of everyone i truely respect your opinion you don't come down harshly on others and i have noticed you are always trying to help others even though it might not be what you believe. I truley am amazed how gracious you have been to alot of YT members who have been in trouble in "accident situations" and you have helped them out.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

That has never come from me. What I have said is I have respect for all breeders that are doing it correctly........

Again, I will say defensive attitudes defeat the thread from being educational. Discussions should be objective, noncombative with the soul purpose of educating.

i didn't say it came from you and didn't mean to imply that it did. but you have probably seen it many times said by others same as I have.