Every breeder's program is different. But, to answer your question, yes. There are those that have larger kennels that do just what you say. Those beautiful females that are wonderful brood bitches (I hate that term) that produce beautiful specimens of the breed, but have never been Championed (this is done because the breeding time for a female is so short and a bitch should be bred the first time before the age of 3). So, if you have a larger kennel you can't show them all, but you don't want to sell those gems that are excellent brood bitches.

MyFairLacy, Your himalayan cat is beautiful! My mother used to own one when I was a little baby and she lived a nice long life , I was in 6th grade when she died. Her name was Musette. I think she was a blue point Himalayan if I am not mistaken. I have always thought they were pretty cats.

Thank you :) I Love her and think she's gorgeous. She's got a great personality too. She's so sweet.

I have a seal point named Kira too. She came from another show breeder 8 years ago, but she's a mess...allergies and behavioral issues. But I love her too. But she prooves that not all show breeders are reputable and knows what they are doing (although I think most are and do). Her breeder was just starting out in showing at the time which I just recently found out (I was only 14 when I got her so I didn't know much at the time).

Ok this is not meant to point you out Mardelin but you are the show breeder that posted so I will use this example. If all of these quality dogs are spayed and neutered except your one show dog you keep to better your breeding program which I assume is to get another dog to show and not for breeding purposes, how is this considered bettering the breed? Do you understand what I am asking or am I just confusing everone including myself. LOL.

If you ever need a cat sitter MyFairLacy, you can send the cats my way..:winky:

Yep! You are confusing me. But, I wouldn't keep a dog for show that I didn't have intentions of breeding. That would be wasting my money and showing is for the purpose to get approval of your breeding stock.
And as was stated, there is no perfect dog. If you can't look at your dog with a critical eye, you're kennel blind. I look at each of my dogs, yes even my Champions and see something I would love to improve on. Whether it be up on leg, coat color, lay back in the shoulders, a gait, an ear set that is just so slightly off, a stop that I'm not happy with or the angulation that is just a wee bit off......

It was told to me, by my mentor if you can see 3 faults in a dog, don't show it, the judge will find more. It's the old 3 strikes your out.

haha..Ohio is pretty far but thanks for the offer. I actually just got an e-mail today from my pet-sitting service saying they're retiring starting October 1. I was shocked. They've only taken care of my cats once but I was so pleased with them. Now I have to find a new one...

I am also 20 and also am learning all i can about breeding cause in the future when i have my own house, with a big back yard and tons of space i plan on breeding Yorkies. I love the breed, and it's something that i would love to do. I will never breed any of my 3 dogs that i have now but when i am ready i am going to get breeding quality AKC yorkies, that meet the standards and go for it. It will only be though after i know everything i can about breeding. Also i will not have a whole bunch or anything crazy like that...they will be my pets first, my family and i will not find them homes when they can no longer breed, they will forever be with me and i will love them just as i love all of mine. I always feel so bad when some are rehomed just 'cause they cannot breed anymore :( I think it's the most amazing experience to breed but it should be for ppl that def. know what they are doing. I think you are doing the right thing, by asking all these questions before you actually breed. I wish you the best:) There are tons of amazing breeders here that can help you

Hmmm. Winstin and I could fly there to cat sit. :) :D :D
See we have it all planned out for you. Hubby could watch the big girls for me. :p

:) I'm another one who does not show or breed, but I do have an opinion, I think you will be able to buy a very good quality pup from a show breeder on a spay/neuter contract if you aren't intending to show. Sometimes, the price difference is not that great either and your pup may be more healthy as well which can more than make up for the price difference. I am only going by my personal experience. I bought my Yorkie from a small kennel (no one on YT) and I believe that I was misled & my pup was most probably too young to leave her mom & came to me with coccidiosis. I paid more for her (who I also neutered even though it was not required) than I did the Maltese pup that I bought from a show breeder. I did not get him until after he was neutered and he hasn't had a minutes problem and is a much more well adjusted puppy. I know that my one experience does not make a rule and I am not trying to make one. Just giving you my experience.

Actually show breeders keep their show quality pups for themselves, but on rare occassions will sell one to another show person who will Champion the dog or to a very, very deserving, trustworth, ethical newbie, but with a strict contract.

so basically based on the majority of posters i am just SOL if I want to coincider breeding? I mean, this is what I am gathering from the posts...
1.If I want to breed I should not do it unless I get a show quality yorkie
2.Show breeders keep their show quality pups for themselves....
Im not trying to be rude but i really dont get it... I would really like to hear how the breeders (that believe you should only breed show quality yorkies) got into breeding/showing... I mean, like someone else said... its really like you are in between a rock and a hard place.... I dunno... like i said, i would really like to hear how the people that only breed show quality got into it all in the first place.

Question...............If a show breeder has a litter and 3 of 4 are not show quality and they champion the one show quality dog then breed that dog that has the culls that are siblings how will that better the breed?

From a breeder
 

I'm a yorkie breeder and being such I seem to have a semi-unique way of seeing the yorkie breed. First, the reason for showing a dog is to detemine if it is worthy of breeding. This is the reason why you cannot show a spayed/neutered dog. I have just recently had a puppy that I believe to be show worthy, which is why all puppies that I sell have a strict spay/neuter contract and are sold as pets. Occasionally I have a top quality puppy that I am willing to trade for an equally quality puppy in order to bring new lines into my breeding stock. The entire reason for breeding yorkies is to further the breed. I guess it's the old addage about quality and not quantity. I would go so far as to say that if a dog does not meet the standard it should not be allowed in the AKC registry. There are so many things that keep dogs from meeting the breed standard, but that is the whole reason for a standard isn't it. I mean, come on, why have a standard if so few people are interested in raising the bar to meet it.
As it is, my 5.5lb female had a beautiful litter of 6 with 3 males and 3 females. We are keeping two of the show quality puppies and we have already sold all but one of the remaining puppies. Because he is such high quality, we are willing to trade him for a comperable female. It's all about the breed. Those of us on YT who want to keep only the best dogs for breeding are not saying that anyone's dogs are not quality animals, but most of them are not what we would consider proper for breeding. Think of it this way, don't you see your dog as a member of your family? Wouldn't you want your son or daughter to end up with the best and the brightest? So do we, and we only want our "babies" to end up with the best. This is why we breed the best to the best.

Well said, but some are saying that if a dog is not show quality then it should not be bred. So in my scenario 3 out of 4 dogs are culls and only one is show quality. So if you breed that show quality dog, chances are that 3 out of 4 of its offspring are culls also. BUT in the show world, aren't you breeding bad traits into your future generations in that 3 out of 4 are cull dogs? Thus would you really call that "The betterment of the breed"?

no you are not SOL. Just keep looking. I searched for years to get what I want and four of my eight have come from show kennels. In spite of the fact that show people say they don't sell their dogs to the public, all you have to do is get a Yorkshire Terrier magazine to know otherwise. the last few pages on every magazine is filled with kennel advertisements from show people.

her statement from her first post on this thread is what I take issue with. None of the rest matters. below are her exact words.

"By breeding non-show quality (or pet quality) dogs, you are not breeding to the standard and definitely not improving the breed'

The reason that bothers me is that she is saying that unless you show or have show dogs, your not breeding to standard. i beg to differ on that. show people aren't the only ones that have in standard dogs. i think most of the people on Yt do have dogs that are in standard

I really should have explained why I posted this since I don't think you quite understood.

The shelters are overloaded with dogs and there is way to much breeding of all dogs today but especially labs and yorkies and if you can buy your pet from someone who has shown and studied the breed for years ....why not!! To me that is a great way to better the breed.

Two of my favorite features of the Yorkshire Terrier are recessive genes so believe me trying to breed to the standard, I leave to the experts.

THIS is one of the few posts that actually explained a huge issue quite simply. Thank you, Lynn.

Ya know what makes me crazy on these threads? I get so sick and tired of hearing SOME (not all!!!) breeders say they breed "to better the breed" - when there are CLEARLY so many breeders who do not.

There are breeders on here whose dams and sires are there for all to see - and they have too-big ears, non-standard coat colors, a longer snout and on and on. And yet they say they're breeding to standard and are "bettering the breed".

I think all yorkies are cute - standard and non-standard, but I tell ya, I really become exasperated by claims of "I breed to better the breed" by those who are not doing so. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the breeders on here who really do have a top-notch program, it's pretty cool to hear from them on these threads.

There is no alternative. There is no such thing as the perfect litter, or the perfect dog for that matter. If we didn't breed unless it was a show worthy litter, than chances are the yorkie breed would cease to exist. However, we can take the best of one litter, and breed it to the best of another and hope that you end up with a little of show quality yorkies.

You need to know the lines you are breeding, know the background of every dog within that pedigree. Yes, you may only have 1 dog out of every 6 litters that has that "It" factor. You spay/nueter the rest, they are perfectly sound, good specimans of the breed, but are lacking the "IT" factor (a presence about themselves in their temperament. Keep that one for showing and breeding, keeping the rest would only mean you are over running your kennel with dogs and putting an undue burden on yourself. That doesn't mean the other 3 aren't worth of being bred, as they come from a long line of quality dogs, it just means you are selective in keeping your kennel down to a manageable level.

No, you aren't out of luck....I can only tell you the road is hard to obtain one of those show quality dogs. 10 - 15 years ago it was much easier to obtain a show quality dog from a well known reputable kennel.....Things have transpired that has made it tougher.


I'll explain again how I did it.

My interest in yorkies began a few decades ago, always wanted one, but as a pet. My husband gave me one as a gift, a year later I adopted another one. Both were spayed.

I wanted to learn more about the yorkie standard; health, temperament, care, etc. I began attending yorkie functions and met a wonderful lady (my mentor, breeder, adopted mother). Joined a Specialty Club, began attending dog shows (this helped me determine the type dog I liked, talking to breeders, helping them out at shows. Fetching and carrying, holding, cleaning x-pens.....pretty much grunt work. Then the show bug hit me (the breeding thing didn't even enter my mind). Began researching pedigrees and breeders (in my opinion, picking your breeder first is the most important thing). Once I determined my type, I approached my mentor and began absorbing everything she would share with me and allowing her to get to know me. I was at her home, working in her kennel for months before I approached her for a show dog, asking her to pick it out for me. I didn't get one for a year and half. I then traveled with her then handler for another 6-8 months learning grooming, handling and the art of presentation before she allowed me in the ring. I didn't breed or get near a whelping box (other than assisting her) until I championed 3 dogs, attended breeding seminars, canine genetic classes. A long road, yes, but well worth it.

You hit the nail on the head. That is why I asked the question I did. How do the show breeders better the breed when all of their breeding stock is being spayed and neutered and most wouldnt wouldnt think of letting someone that is actually trying to produce top of the line dogs for the public to own (hence bettering the yorkie population that is out there? If we are spaying and neutering all of these wonderful lines, how are we able to better the breed?

Which is what most of us here are doing but it is still frowned upon because we are only "in it for the money" if we dont show.

I think this should be posted again!!

well.... all this being said, does anyone know of a good website to check and see what shows are going on in my area... I live in vegas and I have never heard of a show going on here... I am in ca. everyone few months and I know alot happends at the pomona fairplex in so cal... but like i said... is there a good site???

Onofrio.com or the AKC website will tell you what shows are coming.

and this one gives you the results

www.infodog.com

sweetyblue is a good website to check out pics of show dogs and gives lots of information about who is who in the show world. You can find links to some very good kennels and top show breeders in the world. Very interesting stuff.

Infodog.com
or Bradshaw Superintendents.....which pretty much is the Superintendent for the West Coast
Onofrio.com handles the Central States/Texas, Oklahoma, NM, etc.