Crates

[iheartyorkies]

Originally Posted by lickthestar

I agree that there is a fine line between using the crate for training and the abuse of crates. On the flip side, the pounds are also full of dogs that have been crated too much and who engage in bad behaviour because of pent up energy, and are subsequently put in the pounds.

Hey guys, with 74 replies and 1000 views as I am typing this, I gotta put my two cents in on this one, LOL!!
Lickthestar, thanks for introducing a thread that obviously draws strong reactions from all of us. I truly believe that everyone here loves their baby and wants only the best life for their pup(s). But, the pound is not full of these dogs because a crate was used to restrict free roam of the house. The pound is full of dogs that for some reason were not properly integrated into a loving family. The reasons for this are many. But it's not the crate that makes a particular dog unfit for a particular family. The family may have chosen the wrong dog for them. They may have expected that a dog could be left alone all day, in or out of a crate, then left to amuse themselves all night. Dogs left to roam by owners who refuse to crate end up in pounds too. Not everyone knows how to train a dog. Improper training of whatever kind, in or out of a crate, leads to confusion, frustration and disappointment for the dog, who only wants a human's love and also for the owner, who feels like they're in over their head. These and others are the reasons that dogs end up in the pound. I agree, it's a very sad scenario.

Personally, I guess I fall somewhere in the middle. I crate trained all 3 of my house dogs from the time they came home. I felt a crate gave a small scared puppy some security in a foreign place during the times when we could not give the puppy 100% of our attention. Crate training and restriction of access is the only way I managed to housebreak Bo. With free run of the house, he'd sneak away and potty every time! I can't nor do I ever plan to give him 100% of my attention 100% of the time. That creates a spoiled little monster! He needs to realize his place in my life (believe me, he's ranks high!).

That said, my family and friends are constantly on me because of my Bo-mania! I adore my little guy and he never lacks for sweet talk, hugs and play. My husband and kids adore him too. So he knows he's loved.
Now that he is bigger, I like for him to be able to walk around albeit, restricted while I am gone. So I bought a pen that is 2 feet wide, 3 feet long and about 2 1/2 feet tall. He has a blanket in there and toys. There's lots of room. If I decide to go for a walk, run to the store, anything that takes longer than 15 minutes, he goes in the pen. He's gonna miss me when I'm gone no matter if he's in the crate or out. In or out he'd sleep most of the time. Dogs LIVE for when their owners come home.

And no, I don't trust my dogs to have free roam of the house when I'm not there. I don't have a ming vase, never will. But what I do have I'd like to protect. I can't put away my table legs! They're firmly planted on the floor. No owner can predict what a dog will do when they're gone. Dogs can be ingeniously inventive in the mischief they can get into. A Schnauzer I had once got into a matchbook collection and chewed 3/4 of them up! I guess she could've burned the house down! Could I have predicted that? No. Did I let my guard down? Yes, but she'd never bothered it before and she was two years old!! It would be foolish to think I could have second-guessed every little thought that came into her head.

No, I don't keep my dogs in a small crate when I'm gone, but Bo and Woody, my Schnauzer are restricted. Woody has to stay in my daughter's bedroom and Bo is in his pen. We've got a swinging baby gate to the bedroom that restricts Bo's access to them when we're home. Sometimes he's allowed back there, sometimes not. I got it at Baby's R Us and it's one of the best $60 I ever spent. Bo sleeps in his pen at night. He doesn't whine. He sleeps. Woody sleeps whereever. He's 8 years old, he's earned it. Will I give Bo more freedom when he's older? Maybe, maybe not. He'll have to earn my trust. Is my house puppy proofed? Yeah, as much as I know how. Everyone's happy.

Hey Admin, any prizes for the most words in a single post?? C'mon!! LOL!

[Puppyperson]

I crate my dogs for piece of mind. I don't want them to get into something when I am gone that could possibly hurt them. I have found both my dogs chewing on cords when I am home so I am sure they would try to do it when I am not home. I have a friend that had a daschund. She was 3 years old and not crated when they left the home. They came home from a night out to find their precious dog HANGING from the blinds. All she was doing was looking out the window and got tangled up. You never know what can happen so I would rather keep them safe in a cage when I am not home.

[Luvmypupster]

The pounds are full or pets for a variety of reason and destructive behavior is one of them. Here's a great article on crate training from the ASPCA.
http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer...e=nyc_dogcrate

[iheartyorkies]

Thanks for sharing that ASPCA article, Luvmypupster. Excellent advice!

[txshopper73]

WOW! Have I been missing out or what? I do not crate my Chester & Gracie. I do close them off in the kitchen at night and during the day while I am at work. I do this because I don't want them messing all over the house. This is also why I no longer have carpet in the house. My dogs are 2 years old and 1 year 2 months. They are old enough to know better.

I am a smoker and when I go outside to smoke, the dogs go too. What frustrates me is like this morning for example. We were outside for 30 minutes and Gracie waited till she got inside to puddle. She knew she was in trouble because as soon as I found the mess, she looked at me, ears went down, and she rolled over.

My friend's 20 year old daughter has a min pin. They let her have the run of the house...she's a couple of years old. Anyway, they live in an older house. They went to run a couple of errands and when they got back, their dog had found some mouse poison from somewhere. They still have NO idea where she found it because they didn't put it down. Off to the vet they go. Their dog is okay. This is the same dog that will run toilet paper all through the house. My friend crates her Yorkies but her daughter doesn't crate her min pin. Final result, over $100 at the vets when they could have just crated her before they left.

I find nothing wrong with crating a dog. People know their dogs and know what's best for them. I do not consider it caging. The people you are talking about do not leave their dogs in the crates for days at a time. When I think of caging, I think of a puppy mill.

Well, here's my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

That is such a sad story about the dachsund! Please make sure if you crate your dog, ypu removed any collar, harness, clothing, necklace or anything tht could get caught in the wires.

I read a story on Dogster that you may not want to read, but if you do here is the link

http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?...101354&p=73792

A little puppy Boston Terrier named Adonis got his bone-shaped ID tag caught in the wire mesh of his crate when his owner was at work and the poor thing strangled himself.

I would have never thought something like that could happen and it may be just a freak thing, but I wouldn't take the risk.

[Jaira]

imo i think crating can be done if nessesary. but when ever i get my puppy, i feel i will end up baby gating the bathroom when i leave so she dosent hurt herself by wondering the house. any way you choose is fine as long as you dont tie your pet to a car! lol not really funny.....

[mojo]

Originally Posted by Jaira

imo i think crating can be done if nessesary. but when ever i get my puppy, i feel i will end up baby gating the bathroom when i leave so she dosent hurt herself by wondering the house. any way you choose is fine as long as you dont tie your pet to a car! lol not really funny.....

I originally kept Bella in the kitchen, plent of room to play, but she didn't like being in there alone (nobody was home anyway) and she learned how to climb out.

I have retried recently as she is older to keep her in the kitchen, she still climbs out. It is dangerous to her and I do not want her having free run of the house.

[Mya's_Mom]

Hi, I think you are seeing the crate as cage which it is but to the dog it becomes a bed. I take from your posts that you are not aware that the dogs go in to the cage, crate when the door is open. The dog has a choice and chooses to put him/her self in there because to them it has become a comfort zone. Why do you put yourself in a box called a bedroom at night? If you look at a baby's crib it looks like a cage too.
You make a great deal of assumputions and generalizations. I can tell you that after fostering dogs that taking away a dog's cage or crate would be mean. They become very attached to them.

[lickthestar]

wow...i'm surprised and glad at the responses that have been posted. as I said before, it's not the fact that a crate is used for training that is the issue but the reasons why. Also, by saying "crate training," I don't mean training your dog to go in a crate, as some of you have interpreted. obviously, it is important when your yorkie is injured, at the vet, or his or her life is at stake.

i believe that when the crate is used for other training, ie: house-breaking, there should be a point at when the use of the crate ends. and from the looks of some of posts I've read, it never ends, which to me defeats the purpose of using the crate to train. and the reason why it never ends seems to be because it is inconvenient for the owners, or they don't know HOW to end it.

I have read the aspca article before. as i mentioned, it does acknowledge that crates can be misused and should not be used simply to contain a dog. And the ASPCA says that if you do crate your dog for 8 hours at a time you should give the dog 90 minutes of exercise outside. That doesn't mean 90 minutes of letting your dog walk around the living room. They mean 90 minutes of taking your dog outside for a good run in the park. And whoever wrote that article says that crates should really be used sparingly. The way I read this article, they're talking about training your dog to be in a crate, not using the crate to train your dog. And when they talk about crating to prevent bad behaviour, this presumes that you KNOW or have reason to suspect that your dog engages in this behaviour. For example, if you've seen your dog chew on the furniture (usually a sign of frustration from lack of exercise), or if he bites your cat.

Let me just add this one thing...this post was never about how much you love your yorkie. i'm well aware that everyone here loves their yorkies or they wouldn't be here.

[Laura]

Another thing to consider -- a couple of years ago, my sister's dog jumped up on the bed and stuck it's head in one of those small chip bags and suffocated. It was so horrible for her. Sometimes mistakes are made, be careful with your babies.
I have to constantly remind my husband about newspaper bags, they really frighten me.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by Laura

Another thing to consider -- a couple of years ago, my sister's dog jumped up on the bed and stuck it's head in one of those small chip bags and suffocated. It was so horrible for her. Sometimes mistakes are made, be careful with your babies.
I have to constantly remind my husband about newspaper bags, they really frighten me.

and you just reminded US also - lots of things can happen so easily - this post is making me really wonder what I need to change when my girls are alone...they usually wait in the foyer but are able to roam the house - we have most rooms shut off - now I'm re-thinking this and maybe need to restrict them more

[yorkiemomwannaB]

I don't have a Yorkie yet, but I do have Chihuahua's and we tried to crate them when they were young, NEVER worked. We started Juliet in her crate for one hour at a time because she hated it so much. I'd put her in her crate and just go outside, she would scream and cry the entire time she was in the crate, she would also potty in the crate and roll around in it It would break my heart to see her so upset, so now the crates are in our basement and I don't use them at all. I don't work though so I am home most of the time. I did worry about the dogs running all over the house while we go out, they don't fight and I don't worry about them ripping the house to shreds but I was worried about them getting hurt. I no longer have a diningroom, but I do have a "dog safe" room, we pulled up the carpet and filled the room with toys and beds. If we leave for several hours I just put the dogs in their room and put up the gate, when we are home they have the run of the house. Now here is the bad side of the dog room, Juliet who is well over one year old has "accidents" all day, we have pee pads down and she usually does her business right beside the pad then rolls her "poo" on to the pad with her nose or uses her teeth to pull the pad over her "pee" accidents, she knows she is doing a bad thing because she'll look at me then cover the head with her paws...if I had stuck to the crate training I probably wouldn't spend half my day carrying paper towels and Lysol around.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by yorkiemomwannaB

I don't have a Yorkie yet, but I do have Chihuahua's and we tried to crate them when they were young, NEVER worked. We started Juliet in her crate for one hour at a time because she hated it so much. I'd put her in her crate and just go outside, she would scream and cry the entire time she was in the crate, she would also potty in the crate and roll around in it It would break my heart to see her so upset, so now the crates are in our basement and I don't use them at all. I don't work though so I am home most of the time. I did worry about the dogs running all over the house while we go out, they don't fight and I don't worry about them ripping the house to shreds but I was worried about them getting hurt. I no longer have a diningroom, but I do have a "dog safe" room, we pulled up the carpet and filled the room with toys and beds. If we leave for several hours I just put the dogs in their room and put up the gate, when we are home they have the run of the house. Now here is the bad side of the dog room, Juliet who is well over one year old has "accidents" all day, we have pee pads down and she usually does her business right beside the pad then rolls her "poo" on to the pad with her nose or uses her teeth to pull the pad over her "pee" accidents, she knows she is doing a bad thing because she'll look at me then cover the head with her paws...if I had stuck to the crate training I probably wouldn't spend half my day carrying paper towels and Lysol around.

I KNOW that has to be frustrating but I think that is SO freakin cute with that rolling her business on the pad or trying to cover it up - that is WAY too smart and very funny !

[centralnewyorki]

Originally Posted by lickthestar

But I do think that there is a point that the protectiveness that people have over their yorkies can go too far. Do you have children?

Interesting question...

Is it considered overprotective to keep a child in a play pen so that they don't play with electrical cords, knives, chemicals, etc? Don't parents keep their children in a crib or playpen to protect them? Aren't cribs and playpens really crates for children, used to protect them from things that may be harmful to them? I'm sure no one would argue that either of these items is overprotective in the case of a child. If it keeps the dog safe, then I would consider it not going too far.

As someone else mentioned, I agree that dogs are den animals. Many people agree that their dogs view their crates as their bedroom, and just as humans like having their own space, so do our dogs.