Crates

[lickthestar]

Originally Posted by Mrsarkwood

I dont have a yorkie yet but I crate train my schnauzer for safety reasons!!! I couldnt imagine a 11 week old puppy left alone in a house!!!! My schnauzer is now 10 months and like another poster said when he gets sleepy he goes in his crate and when im ready to leave he knows and gets right in it. If I just run out to get the mail and leave him alone inside he freaks out!!!! He wouldnt know what to do alone in this house!! The crate is his den and thats the way dogs look at it also.... it is a very good idea to crate train read up about it!!! Also we travel alot and he rides in his crate on the long trips for his safety and he has no problem with it!! I hope with this post you see the advantages to crate training!

I'm sorry if this comes off a bit rudely but first, I never said that there were NO advantages to crate training, operative word being training. secondly, you just posted that your dog freaks out if you get the mail and can't be home alone...what advantages am i missing here?!

[YorkieRose]

I want the pups I place to be contained until adulthood and longer if they have a tendancy to chew. Pens 2x3 or using a baby gate when the owner is away is necessary IMO...one buyer lost her pup who chewed her hairdryer cord...came home to a dead pup..others eat flooring, everything in sight..has nothing to do with training. They can be angels when you are there and devils when you close the door and leave.

I would no more leave a Yorkie pup to roam then a human toddler. If there was a fire, the fireman would have a better chance to find a penned pet then one hiding under a bed or couch...in fact the pen should be close to the front door or window in case.

[Luvmypupster]

There is a fine line between crates being a wonderful safe place for the dog and the over use and abuse of crates. I used a crate when my pups were babies for 2 reason. To aid in house training and to keep them safe. Every dog is different and the need to use a creat should be done so with that in cosideration. Some dogs and puppies are an accident waiting to happen. They may chew cords, lick outlets,get stuck behind appliance, eat things they shouldn't that may cause intestinal blockage or poisoning, get hung from blinds, bras hanging from a door handle. Unexpected accidents do happen , each dog is different. Some can be left to roam the house and never do anything unsafe. The pounds and humane society's are full of dogs whom have caused so much damage to homes that the owners get rid or their pets. The crate could have been a great tool to help prevent these behavior.
Now that mine are older they do have roam of the house when I'm gone but neither of them are destructive. I'm glad they are accustomed to the crate because I do use it when we have a house full of company at holidays and parties. I have 6 young grandkids and while my maltese will stay out of their way and safe, my yorkie will just go belly up in submission. To avoid her being stepped on, tripped over, picked up and in harms way I crate her. An advantage to being accustomed to the crate is for travel. Should you fly, or drive they need to be crated. If they are not some what use to the crate they may have anxiety issues and you will be listening to a screeching barking dog the entire trip. Crates are the safest containment on road trips. You can take a small crate and run the shoulder harness/ seatbelt thru the handle and buckle them in. Should your dog ever need boarding or medical care they will be put in a crate. Can you imagine the stress they would experience had they never been in one before? I keep my crate out with the door open and both mine go in it at times to aly down. If Mia is playing and sees that I have closed the door to keep her out she gets to acting silly and barks for me to open the crate so that she could go in a check it out. But crate use can be abused too.

[lickthestar]

I agree that there is a fine line between using the crate for training and the abuse of crates. On the flip side, the pounds are also full of dogs that have been crated too much and who engage in bad behaviour because of pent up energy, and are subsequently put in the pounds.

The crate could have been used as a "tool to prevent such behaviour," not using the crate because you don't want to do anything to actually prevent such behaviour.

The line, I think I would draw is this: if kids put plugs in their mouths, you would teach them not to do it, or you'd keep your plugs where your kids can't get to them. Same thing with dogs. I would not lock my kid up in a room because he might tangle himself in a bra that is hanging on the bathroom door handle. I think the alternative is to either not hang your bras there anymore, or teach the kid not to do it. At some point, you're gonna have to leave your kid home alone and trust that you have taught the kid enough and that he will be responsible, and trust that you have taken enough responsibility to make your home a safe one for a child. Same thing with dogs.

And that...is the second question. at what point would you let your dog out of his crate when you're not home? if you can't trust your dog or yourself for having done everything possible to teach your dog right from wrong, why do you have a dog?

Just as having kids is a responsibility, having a dog is a responsibility. There is a bottom-line level of care that every dog and every child deserves. What upsets me are dog owners who do not reach that minimum level of responsibility...I mean with kids it's not always a choice to have them or not but with dogs it is a choice and I just want to bring up the topic of where we, as pet owners, draw the bottom line of responsible pet ownership.

[Luvmypupster]

You seem very confrontational and upset with this topic? Are you angry?

[Sidney]

Originally Posted by Luvmypupster

You seem very confrontational and upset with this topic? Are you angry?

I was wondering the same thing???

[lickthestar]

I'm not confrontational or upset with this topic...I started the thread. I do think, however, that we as yorkie owners, have a responsibility, and collectively as members to this group, to ensure that new and old yorkie owners use crates in a responsible manner.

The reason that I started this thread is that I kept reading a lot of posts where people are having trouble with crate training, etc. and I think it is important for people to look at what they are doing by using the crates, and why they are doing it and upon whose advice. Some posts started to look to me like people were just putting their dogs in crates with no intention of training them, and really no intention of ever teaching the dog to live a fulfilling life outside of the crate.

I am concerned about yorkie owners who use crates because other people tell them that "it's the only way."

My issue is not whether owners use crates or not. Archie gets put in a crate when he goes to the vet, the groomer, etc. My issue is the reasons behind why (or why not) they use crates.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I want the pups I place to be contained until adulthood and longer if they have a tendancy to chew. Pens 2x3 or using a baby gate when the owner is away is necessary IMO...one buyer lost her pup who chewed her hairdryer cord...came home to a dead pup..others eat flooring, everything in sight..has nothing to do with training. They can be angels when you are there and devils when you close the door and leave.

I would no more leave a Yorkie pup to roam then a human toddler. If there was a fire, the fireman would have a better chance to find a penned pet then one hiding under a bed or couch...in fact the pen should be close to the front door or window in case.

[B]THE VOICE OF REASON. THANK YOU!

[Stitches29]

Originally Posted by lickthestar

I agree that there is a fine line between using the crate for training and the abuse of crates. On the flip side, the pounds are also full of dogs that have been crated too much and who engage in bad behaviour because of pent up energy, and are subsequently put in the pounds.

The crate could have been used as a "tool to prevent such behaviour," not using the crate because you don't want to do anything to actually prevent such behaviour.

The line, I think I would draw is this: if kids put plugs in their mouths, you would teach them not to do it, or you'd keep your plugs where your kids can't get to them. Same thing with dogs. I would not lock my kid up in a room because he might tangle himself in a bra that is hanging on the bathroom door handle. I think the alternative is to either not hang your bras there anymore, or teach the kid not to do it. At some point, you're gonna have to leave your kid home alone and trust that you have taught the kid enough and that he will be responsible, and trust that you have taken enough responsibility to make your home a safe one for a child. Same thing with dogs.

And that...is the second question. at what point would you let your dog out of his crate when you're not home? if you can't trust your dog or yourself for having done everything possible to teach your dog right from wrong, why do you have a dog?

Just as having kids is a responsibility, having a dog is a responsibility. There is a bottom-line level of care that every dog and every child deserves. What upsets me are dog owners who do not reach that minimum level of responsibility...I mean with kids it's not always a choice to have them or not but with dogs it is a choice and I just want to bring up the topic of where we, as pet owners, draw the bottom line of responsible pet ownership.

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Just because all living things don't speak our language or walk on two legs, doesn't make them any less of a creation. Animals are abused just like children. Guess that's why both are abandoned and sometimes killed. Even though we didn't give birth to our furbabies, doesn't make them any less of a responsibility. I love my animals just as much as my own children. My animals depend on me and I am rewarded with so much love. I would hate to know what my life would be without my furbabies.

[Luvmypupster]

I understand. I think you are concerned about the abusive use of crates and not the positive benefits of crates. I'm sure most if not all members here use crates as a positive safe tool and don't "over use" them. All I can say is that not all dogs are the same, same for kids. Some dogs can not be left unsupervised ever. To protect them and your home crates can be useful tools. No child or dog is perfect no matter the upbringing or training. You can train them or teach them until you are blue in the face but bottom line is they do make mistakes. The examples I used are just some I tossed out there from things I have read over the years of my membership to dog forums. I know everyone here would be appalled at the abuse of leaving a dog crated unnecessarily for extend cruel lengths of time day in day out. That is abuse! You get a puppy to enjoy, love and as a companion not to lock away because you don't have time for it or don't want to deal with it. But there are positive responsible uses for a crate. Number one being safety. Also there are some dogs that suffer major separation anxiety when left alone and do wonderful in crates while their owners are away from the home.

[Mrsarkwood]

Advantages.... he is safe from harm where he wont get electrecuted, choke on things he should be chewing on, poisioned by something harmfull for dogs and the list goes on and on. By meaning he freaks out when i leave the house and dont put him in his crate he doesnt feel safe in his den!! get it now? I dont see the harm in crateing a dog only the good in it!! I dont work full time so hes not in there constant only when we are gone or if we go on long trips ... where he is also safe in case of an accident. now what are your objections in crating?!?!?!?!? I dont get what you are trying to say?

[YorkieRose]

I do not pen or crate my adults...they have a spare room with a gate and stay there when I am out..although I would not hestitate to leave the girls alone in the house..they are well behaved.

Another reason to crate train is for health reasons. If one ever needs surgery and stay overnight at the vets, it is less stressful if they are content in a crate. I had a Doxie who needed bladder surgery to remove a stone..she was not allowed to jump for two weeks..that was two weeks in hell..Sabrina had never been in a pen in her life and cried all night. I let her out and she made a beeline for my bed and jumped up, then off...back to the pen.
A simple dental cleaning means a day in a pen at the vets, so I want mine comfortable..no need to stress them anymore then they are already...and it makes flying so easy too...plus most reataurants will accept a small carte under the table when traveling..try taking a loose pet inside.
Some people over use crates..and I agree, it is sad.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I do not pen or crate my adults...they have a spare room with a gate and stay there when I am out..although I would not hestitate to leave the girls alone in the house..they are well behaved.

Another reason to crate train is for health reasons. If one ever needs surgery and stay overnight at the vets, it is less stressful if they are content in a crate. I had a Doxie who needed bladder surgery to remove a stone..she was not allowed to jump for two weeks..that was two weeks in hell..Sabrina had never been in a pen in her life and cried all night. I let her out and she made a beeline for my bed and jumped up, then off...back to the pen.
A simple dental cleaning means a day in a pen at the vets, so I want mine comfortable..no need to stress them anymore then they are already...and it makes flying so easy too...plus most reataurants will accept a small carte under the table when traveling..try taking a loose pet inside.
Some people over use crates..and I agree, it is sad.

Pat:

I agree with you and I think this is really what Lickthestar is saying too. When members asked if she was angry, I think the anger, if there is any, comes from the thought of any animal, especially a yorkie because we can relate to them, being abused. Just as some of us get angry about puppymills, we also get "angry" when we think private owners may also be keeping their beloved pets in a "cage" for more than just their comfort and protection.

I also think that most of our members are very conscious of this concern and, if they use a crate, they try everything in their power to make sure the dog is not "caged" anymore than absolutely necessary.

I am lucky enough that I do not use a crate. I used a playpen when they were babies and I use gates in the house now that they are older. I have a carrier that is airline approved and I leave that out as a bed that Hefner will sleep in so he is comfortable in it when we travel by plane or car. My vet allows me to bring Hefner's blanket and his favorite toy when he has to stay there for any length of time and I limit the time he is at the vet without me just as you would with a child. They are always more comfortable and less anxious when mommy or daddy are there.

My dogs are also "service animals" so I can take them anywhere in a carrier or out without any concern that I may be asked to leave.

[whispersmom2]

[SIZE=2]I agree with YorkieRose! I can just see some rolling of eyes toward the sky and saying "What's new? Rini is agreeing with her mentor?" Just so you know, we dont agree on many things. Now back to the topic of discussion..I used 2X3 ft. CRATES WHEN MY MOMS WERE REARING THEIR YOUNGUNS! I am still talking about Yorkies here. When the babies were weaned the floor of the crate was lowered a notch or two and it bacame the puppies' pen. They had a bed and all the necessities in it and they became the well-socialized babies that people who know my babies will agree upon. At about 14- weeks, they were limited to an X pen in the middle of the kitchen floor where they could play with the older adults and still be protected from harm by the older critters. Yet, we crab-walked around that pen til the last baby left at about 5 months.
My dogs are always in the kitchen/family room with us. They have their own little footstool to get up onto the couch. BUT, even 5 month old dogs need protection and to assure that, they go into a 16foot diameter pen-the same one I used when they had outgrown their crate.. if I have a sick puppy that needs to sleep in my room, they sleep in a crate..they are carried up and down stairs-mine are hardwood and none of my babies are allowed to climb them.
I am a retired nurse who is home far more than I would like to be. But, if I go out for just a few hours, my youngest go into the Xpen with everythng except the things they might get hurt on. At night, EVERY one of my 7 babes sleep in the same Xpen with their beds- and each other. They never go off to a corner of the pen to sleep-they want to touch each other. Sometimes, we need a croup tent..it has to be set up close to the others so the sick baby can see them. When a spay/neuter baby comes home-the crate is used so we can limit jumping. Sick baby needs special care-crate is used..Workmen here-everyone gets penned or crated.

Why am I writing this book? Because I feel it is important to be able to use a pen or crate at any point in a Yorkie's life for various reasons. After being owned by these wee Yorkie TERRORS for many years, I have learned that nothing is always...
Please forgive the length of this post but some explanations are longer than others..IMO the only time a crate should NEVER be used is -as a punishment like solitairy confinement.[/SIZE]

[Luvmypupster]

Originally Posted by Luvmypupster

I understand. I think you are concerned about the abusive use of crates and not the positive benefits of crates.

Kim, you are so right! I only asked if she were angry because many or the post from forum members indicated that they are responsibly using crates and no matter what the explanation of their use or their opinion, the topic goes back to square one. Didn't sound as if any members whom use crates do so in an abusive way. My post pretty much reflected what Pat's said. .