Scared about how big my puppy will be

[yorkietalkjilly]

And the reality is, these greeders count on 99% of us being suckers and fools for their sales pitches and promises and fairy-tale pictures at some point in our lives. Most of us fall for their promises of dreams-come-true because we just don't know any better and, really, how could we? Unless we are raised by or know someone who is very dog-savvy and knows the horrors and problems associated with creating "permanent puppies", tiny toy dogs and so on, we're all apt to be sucked in by these unscrupulous breeders and websites until we somehow learn what is so wrong about that type of breeder and the puppies they sell. Sure, some of them are healthy and don't have problems but Google searches will show you that a great many of the dogs they breed do have many, many conformation, health and temperament problems.

Buying from one of those breeders really casts no aspersions on any of their clients who usually don't and can't know any better and that is what is so sad. So many of us don't even know we should ask questions or even what to ask when we start out young buying a dog or buy a toy dog for the first time. And those breeders of tinies and designer dogs cater to our ignorance of the whole subject and as young people and first-time toy dog buyers, who just automatically or inherently knows not to believe some of those website claims?

Hoping the former or recent clients of greeders/brokers don't think any of our remarks about who buys from them are directed personally at them but rather understand that our comments are saved for the greeders and their knowing that all of us at one time in life are novice dog buyers and are often suckers and fools for their and other equally glowing sales pitches. And knowing that is what gives them power over the new buyer. I know - I've bought tiny, toy dogs and other pie-in-the sky products of all kinds - magic ovens "that do it all" but barely toast, blenders that blend supposedly w/out jamming up and stopping mid-blend, wildly expensive wrinkle-reducing creams that doesn't work, firming make-up that doesn't firm, expensive video cameras that work just until the warranty is up, phony all-inclusive vacation packages that cover "all expenses from flights, suites, activities and all meals", and oh, more than a few exercise machines and devices that claim to make exercise "easy". Everybody falls for a few sales pitches at one time or another in our lives, particularly when we want so hard to believe. I've been a big sucker for a good sales pitch more than a time or two and want to help others that might be thinking of doing business with breeders of tinies or so-called designed dogs, "permanent puppies", outlandish promises of toy mixed-breed dogs,etc., hoping others on here doing research or just casually reading won't fall for their attractive spiels when and if they decide to get a toy dog.

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

lol - I didn't even notice "departed"! I like it!

Ah, close enough.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

Ah, close enough.

[gracielove]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

And the reality is, these greeders count on 99% of us being suckers and fools for their sales pitches and promises and fairy-tale pictures at some point in our lives. Most of us fall for their promises of dreams-come-true because we just don't know any better and, really, how could we? Unless we are raised by or know someone who is very dog-savvy and knows the horrors and problems associated with creating "permanent puppies", tiny toy dogs and so on, we're all apt to be sucked in by these unscrupulous breeders and websites until we somehow learn what is so wrong about that type of breeder and the puppies they sell. Sure, some of them are healthy and don't have problems but Google searches will show you that a great many of the dogs they breed do have many, many conformation, health and temperament problems.

Buying from one of those breeders really casts no aspersions on any of their clients who usually don't and can't know any better and that is what is so sad. So many of us don't even know we should ask questions or even what to ask when we start out young buying a dog or buy a toy dog for the first time. And those breeders of tinies and designer dogs cater to our ignorance of the whole subject and as young people and first-time toy dog buyers, who just automatically or inherently knows not to believe some of those website claims?

Hoping the former or recent clients of greeders/brokers don't think any of our remarks about who buys from them are directed personally at them but rather understand that our comments are saved for the greeders and their knowing that all of us at one time in life are novice dog buyers and are often suckers and fools for their and other equally glowing sales pitches. And knowing that is what gives them power over the new buyer. I know - I've bought tiny, toy dogs and other pie-in-the sky products of all kinds - magic ovens "that do it all" but barely toast, blenders that blend supposedly w/out jamming up and stopping mid-blend, wildly expensive wrinkle-reducing creams that doesn't work, firming make-up that doesn't firm, expensive video cameras that work just until the warranty is up, phony all-inclusive vacation packages that cover "all expenses from flights, suites, activities and all meals", and oh, more than a few exercise machines and devices that claim to make exercise "easy". Everybody falls for a few sales pitches at one time or another in our lives, particularly when we want so hard to believe. I've been a big sucker for a good sales pitch more than a time or two and want to help others that might be thinking of doing business with breeders of tinies or so-called designed dogs, "permanent puppies", outlandish promises of toy mixed-breed dogs,etc., hoping others on here doing research or just casually reading won't fall for their attractive spiels when and if they decide to get a toy dog.

You are so right. Greeders take advantage of the fact that good purebred breeding is something that the general public is totally ignorant of. The world of good purebred breeding is a very small one. They don't advertize on fancy fake websites or in most classified ads. If they are really good they generally have waiting lists for their pups.
Anyone interested in finding a good, quality purebred puppy can find one, but it takes some patience and the willingness to seek out the proper channels to learn about them. Most people just see what they think they want and want it instantly.
You don't have to want a show dog to get a good representative of the breed. It just takes some common sense and the willingness to learn and then patiently wait for your baby to be born.

[gemy]

A word or three-score about "when" health problems can show up.

CT - can show up in early puppyhood, or anytime there-after. Sometimes as a result of improper collar use, and or intubation during surgery.

LP - looseness at the knees can be seen at even 8wks old. Note I said looseness and not even calling it Grade 1. At this age puppy is too young to properly assess the knees. In Europe finally grading is done after 2yrs old - maybe even closer to 3yrs old.
Loose knees can resolve, with a)intelligent exercises and b) safe practices of which there are many and c) joint supplements. And or some combination of both.
A book can be written about the exercises and the safe practices.

LIVER sHUNT LS: Can show up in a young puppy - recommended BATS testing at 16wks and 6months. Can show up later on in life, secondary to some other problem - for example bladder stones.

Hyperuricosuria - another condition that is genetic and can show up and often doesn't show up until after 5 years old (males predisposed to more serious concerns here).

Thyroid problems - May not show up in early life prior to one year old, and may show up after de-sexing, 2-3-4-5 years later.

Allergy problems: Do not usually show up until after one year old

PRA and or Cataracts - Can show up anytime up to 6 yrs old.

And the list goes on.

SO OP: at 15 wks old your puppy is healthy so far. Until you reach at least mile marker of 5 years old, you won't really know for sure.

[gemy]

Until the public can see, widescreen mixed breed testing, that is available for all pure-breds, then for me it is just a myth.

One of my little projects for this summer, is to video-tape dogs out in public who have obvious movement problems. It is astounding to me, that when I watch dogs move, (I just seem to do that naturally) out in public, how many of them move so very poorly.

Another caveat, that just because you mix a supposed hyp0-allergenic dog with another breed that is not hypoallergenic, that the coat will always be of the hypo-allergenic type. I say BALDERDASH to that assumption.

Now let us say you breed a Maltese with a Yorkshire Terrier, both these breeds have high incidence of LS. Do you really think you are lowering the chances of LS free pups? Again I say BALDERDASH.

And it truly ASTOUNDS me why anyone would pay high prices for a mix!

The marketing hype in this case, is so pervasive that the public has bought into the myth.

I remember my husband spending several hours over several days with a co-worker, who wanted a pup, for his young tween girl. They went through all the reasons for purebreds, looked at several breeds. Yada Yada. The next thing hubby hears, that co-worker bought a Labradoodle or some such, for his daughter; cost was $1200 For a mixed breed dog. Sigh.........

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by gemy

A word or three-score about "when" health problems can show up.

CT - can show up in early puppyhood, or anytime there-after. Sometimes as a result of improper collar use, and or intubation during surgery.

LP - looseness at the knees can be seen at even 8wks old. Note I said looseness and not even calling it Grade 1. At this age puppy is too young to properly assess the knees. In Europe finally grading is done after 2yrs old - maybe even closer to 3yrs old.
Loose knees can resolve, with a)intelligent exercises and b) safe practices of which there are many and c) joint supplements. And or some combination of both.
A book can be written about the exercises and the safe practices.

LIVER sHUNT LS: Can show up in a young puppy - recommended BATS testing at 16wks and 6months. Can show up later on in life, secondary to some other problem - for example bladder stones.

Hyperuricosuria - another condition that is genetic and can show up and often doesn't show up until after 5 years old (males predisposed to more serious concerns here).

Thyroid problems - May not show up in early life prior to one year old, and may show up after de-sexing, 2-3-4-5 years later.

Allergy problems: Do not usually show up until after one year old

PRA and or Cataracts - Can show up anytime up to 6 yrs old.

And the list goes on.

SO OP: at 15 wks old your puppy is healthy so far. Until you reach at least mile marker of 5 years old, you won't really know for sure.

This is really good to know!

[amyazer]

gemy you obviously dont know anything about genetics no offense

[Harrysmum]

Originally Posted by amyazer

gemy you obviously dont know anything about genetics no offense

I think offence is being now taken by many of us on here - how rude.

[Harrysmum]

Also, by the way, Bitdefender is blocking, apparently, multiple viruses on my computer, every time I click onto one of your posts.....

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by amyazer

gemy you obviously dont know anything about genetics no offense

One of my biggest pet peeves is someone who knows they are going to offend someone by what they say, but included "no offense" in the statement.

And this statement coming from you, with what you have previously said, you obviously don't know what you are talking about. But of course, you probably won't see this or respond to me, since it seems like you must have me on ignore, bc YOU WON'T EVER ANSWER MY QUESTION!

I'm beginning to think you must be the breeder herself. Who else would defend those practices so adamantly? And insult one of our most respected and knowledgable breeders here?

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by amyazer

gemy you obviously dont know anything about genetics no offense

The was EXTREMELY rude! You have no idea how much this lovely women knows and it is a whole lot more then you for sure! The truth can hurt but she is telling the truth!! Look it up do research you will find all of what she says is very true!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

One of my biggest pet peeves is someone who knows they are going to offend someone by what they say, but included "no offense" in the statement.

And this statement coming from you, with what you have previously said, you obviously don't know what you are talking about. But of course, you probably won't see this or respond to me, since it seems like you must have me on ignore, bc YOU WON'T EVER ANSWER MY QUESTION!

I'm beginning to think you must be the breeder herself. Who else would defend those practices so adamantly? And insult one of our most respected and knowledgable breeders here?

[normarae63]

Amy? Might I suggest that instead of insulting a well known & very knowledgeable participant of our community, you actually do something constructive for yourself like go see other parts of YT?

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by amyazer

gemy you obviously dont know anything about genetics no offense

LoL Now you are being silly, you started with zero credibility, seemed to mellow and leave yourself open to responses and feedback...and then you insult Gemy like this. This is one of those responses that do not dignify a response. Amy your out of the ball park now....now you "sound" totally ridiculous, just as when you first started responding.

Gemy needs no reassurance, we know how well she knows genetics....