I want to be honest...

[gontygirl]

[QUOTE=yorkietalkjilly;4080442]A lot of people cannot tell the difference between honesty and rudeness in the typed word so I find that couching the wording in softer tones really helps the reader accept it in the spirit it was offered. If I just say what I mean to say in a few blunt words, a lot of it would probably come across in cold print as perhaps a little rude. And if an emotional reader, at wits end or scared about their little dog is on this site and reads anything too plainly or bluntly stated, their defenses often rush to the fore and they don't often even really consider the opinion or advice offered. You can tell that by reading good advice bluntly offered about what should be done or should have been done and then a reply from OP complaining of rudeness right after. Usually they don't even mention the good advice given, just address the advice- or opinion-giver for their rudeness. So, together with honesty, consider how it will sound to the reader.

That is not to say we should coddle an owner/guardian of a sick, injured, abused or neglected dog by cooing sweet nothings to them but considering whether or not one really wants to communicate with that person or "make a statement" that might make us feel good to say and hit submit reply is usually good to do before posting. If you really want a person to hear your words, being honest in a firm but kind way seems to work out better in the long run for the good of the animals we're all so concerned about as we have to go through their stewards in order to help them.[/Q

YES! So well said...

[gontygirl]

Originally Posted by Handlewithcare

As a new person to this site (posting wise - I've actually been reading for a long time) I find the information and most posters really helpful. Sometimes bluntness is useful but the written word can make it come across as really nasty.

What I would say however, is that posts refering to forum politics (on any forum) without reference to the particular post or poster they are taking about, are THE most off putting posts ever. They really drive new people like me away. I'd rather see the instance of overly blunt posting happen than the starting of new threads just to yap about others.

Yup, I'm a newbie and probably should say that but I just want to be honest.

I'm a noob too and learning the bounderies here... I will continue to offer the info and experience I have with as much writing finesse as I can...tho I'm not sure I'm very good at that. I'm workin' on it...

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by gontygirl

Let me say in advance that I'm very straight forward... I am not judgemental although I do have my own way (although not unique...) of raising and respecting dogs. I don't expect all of you to agree with my opinions as I know I won't always agree with yours. I hope that when one comes to this site and asks for help that we have the courage to be honest. NOT RUDE, but truly honest. Being truthful and helpful doesn't not have anything to do with being impolite and unmannerful. If one cannot muster up the courage to be REAL in an online forum when annonimity is the reality and so many people seem to need so much help, I imagine there is nowhere in your real life where this kind of unadorned thruth has it's place... At least find your backbone and gallantry here for the sake of our prized and treasured DOGS. Shutting up now lol...

I would agree that it can take courage to be honest and I agree that forum members should be honest, even if the truth may sting. However, honesty can mean absolutely nothing to the receiver if the message is delivered in such a way that's more about the giver, than the receiver. There are a TON of people in this world who just have to be right - who have to 'educate' others via a completely alienating imperious manner. In those cases, honesty usually means very little to the person who is on the receiving end of that imperiousness.

We have people delivering messages on this forum that cover the spectrum of all styles. But yeah, in an ideal world - we would all deliver our messages honestly and respectfully.

Originally Posted by Handlewithcare

As a new person to this site (posting wise - I've actually been reading for a long time) I find the information and most posters really helpful. Sometimes bluntness is useful but the written word can make it come across as really nasty.

What I would say however, is that posts refering to forum politics (on any forum) without reference to the particular post or poster they are taking about, are THE most off putting posts ever. They really drive new people like me away. I'd rather see the instance of overly blunt posting happen than the starting of new threads just to yap about others.

Yup, I'm a newbie and probably should say that but I just want to be honest.

I'm glad you started posting ! I completely agree with that 2nd paragraph of yours and know exactly what you mean. I've seen threads such as that cause more problems than the actual thread that motivated the start of the 'yapping' thread.

Originally Posted by GuinnessStout

You asked for honest but I was going to stay quiet and be nice NOW after reading more of your expert training knowledge, and how we humans are the alpha and our dogs are below us with no emotions or morals (FYI you might want to research that some more) I am just wondering where this thread came from because it's like you are trying to force what you believe to be right or wrong onto others and now whining like a child because people do not agree with your "knowledge" so you don't feel like you fit in with the "cool kids" (BTW I did not know this forum was Jr High School) Half the replies I see from your come across so rude at times and you keep going on about how truthful and straightforward you are in one breath but the next go into the nobody knows us here and we have anonymity blah blah blah (If you have the guts to be yourself and speak your mind then why are hung up on the anonymity of being on the Internet?)

We all love our pets dearly on here and all have different views of how to train or raise our fur children so just because what works for YOU does not mean you have to force your thoughts own others because as we all know what works for one yorkie might not work for another!!

I too believe in treading gently with all of our fellow earthlings .

I totally agree that we all have such different styles and beliefs about training; I have a very tough time with the way some trainers go about their business. I'm not familiar with the OP's training style, but will have to read further.

Considering I think dogs are WAY more respectable creatures than us lowly and often morally-annoying humans, I have to say that I don't think I'm superior to my dogs just bc I'm human. Um, that is a belief created by humans, for humans. It's not a universal like, say, gravity.

[gontygirl]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I would agree that it can take courage to be honest and I agree that forum members should be honest, even if the truth may sting. However, honesty can mean absolutely nothing to the receiver if the message is delivered in such a way that's more about the giver, than the receiver. There are a TON of people in this world who just have to be right - who have to 'educate' others via a completely alienating imperious manner. In those cases, honesty usually means very little to the person who is on the receiving end of that imperiousness.

We have people delivering messages on this forum that cover the spectrum of all styles. But yeah, in an ideal world - we would all deliver our messages honestly and respectfully.



I'm glad you started posting ! I completely agree with that 2nd paragraph of yours and know exactly what you mean. I've seen threads such as that cause more problems than the actual thread that motivated the start of the 'yapping' thread.



I too believe in treading gently with all of our fellow earthlings .

I totally agree that we all have such different styles and beliefs about training; I have a very tough time with the way some trainers go about their business. I'm not familiar with the OP's training style, but will have to read further.

Considering I think dogs are WAY more respectable creatures than us lowly and often morally-annoying humans, I have to say that I don't think I'm superior to my dogs just bc I'm human. Um, that is a belief created by humans, for humans. It's not a universal like, say, gravity.

FIRSTLY I have to say that the pic of your dog is soooo overwhelmingly adorable!!! Unbelievably cute dog!!!! I also wanted to agree with your point of view. I'm not the best in putting my thoughts or messages into words on a screen or paper...I truly hope that I can do better concerning voicing my opinions about training. I certainly do NOT think that there is only one universal way to train...MINE. I can only speak to how I do things successfully and offer that up as a viable option for someone to want to learn from...as I respectfully read and gather information for my arsenal of go-to solutions as well...from you all. Which, by the way has been very useful and helpful!

I'm new and green...and in a learning curve. I still stand by my original post.

[mamaj]

Amen sista!

[LILBIT1]

Rudeness is not acceptable. Bluntness if done with tact, feeling, and respect is ok. Its just how some come off. We are all here for same reason. We love our pups. Let's get along, be respectful of others and have some fun. Were all on the same journey with our fur babies. They are awesome!

[concretegurl]

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...d-respect.html

[Belle Noir]

I just did my English 102 final essay. It was on PETA, actually. One of the articles I used as a reference did a play on the saying killing the messenger. What they said was as the messenger, PETA often kills the message.

I bring that up, because it seems to me, in some cases, the message is killed by the messenger, in other words, it's not what was said, it was how it was said. I have seen people leave who could have been valuable contributing members of the community, had they just been handled a little differently.

The worse thing is these people that are run off the forum, and make no bones, they are indeed run off the forum.. They're not going to stop having yorkies. BUT now they are not going to utilize their BEST source of information and education because some people decided they did not like the choices they made for their dogs and instead of having a conversation with these people about what they believe is the right way, backed by proof, not just so and so said so, these people have been berated for doing the wrong thing.

Now.. again, they're not leaving the yorkie as a breed. And a chance to educate someone has been lost, because some people in their zeal forgot how to deliver the message and so the message was killed. And these people will go on and breed their yorkies, not knowing and not caring, because they're going to show those stuck up snobby yorkie people a thing or two.

Who suffers in the end? All because someone could not soften the delivery of a message. It doesn't kill anyone to speak a little softer, just to get the message delivered.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Belle Noir

I just did my English 102 final essay. It was on PETA, actually. One of the articles I used as a reference did a play on the saying killing the messenger. What they said was as the messenger, PETA often kills the message.

I bring that up, because it seems to me, in some cases, the message is killed by the messenger, in other words, it's not what was said, it was how it was said. I have seen people leave who could have been valuable contributing members of the community, had they just been handled a little differently.

The worse thing is these people that are run off the forum, and make no bones, they are indeed run off the forum.. They're not going to stop having yorkies. BUT now they are not going to utilize their BEST source of information and education because some people decided they did not like the choices they made for their dogs and instead of having a conversation with these people about what they believe is the right way, backed by proof, not just so and so said so, these people have been berated for doing the wrong thing.

Now.. again, they're not leaving the yorkie as a breed. And a chance to educate someone has been lost, because some people in their zeal forgot how to deliver the message and so the message was killed. And these people will go on and breed their yorkies, not knowing and not caring, because they're going to show those stuck up snobby yorkie people a thing or two.

Who suffers in the end? All because someone could not soften the delivery of a message. It doesn't kill anyone to speak a little softer, just to get the message delivered.

Ya know to me, that sounds like a personal problem they have based on a personal choice to leave-I don't believe anyone gets run off, period.

They could choose to stay and utalize the ignore function-its sad we're supposed to handle eachother as opposed to being unique individuals-sometimes less a cohesive way but far more authentic.

Then again I speak bluntly, so...

My let peeve was the ability of people asking for opinions or posting here openly then crying about this or that so & so said this rudely and I'm entitled to make people talk to me the way I dictate they do-or I'll call them names and threaten to leave...or put up an exiting post and why. That to me is remnisant of ab adolescent temper tantrum.

Sometimes I forget to put my big girl panties on...so I choose how to deal with it, and live with my choices not put it on others.

BTW I don't advocate for unrelentless rudeness etc , but I don't sugar coat.

[Verbena]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...d-respect.html

Perfect Thank you

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by Belle Noir

I bring that up, because it seems to me, in some cases, the message is killed by the messenger, in other words, it's not what was said, it was how it was said.

One of the downsides to a written forum is that you miss the nuances of in-person conversation. I tend to type/write as I'd speak. Only, if I was actually speaking to you, you'd see when I raise my eyebrows, smirk, silly grin, roll eyes and you'd hear my tone. While the smilies at the side of the response box help somewhat, they don't completely convey what is meant by what is written. I know personally, I've responded on a thread, and I know what I meant & how I meant it at the time, but when I've come back & caught up on the thread a day or two later & re-read what I wrote, I realize it could come across different than how I intended.

As with any social interaction, the more you interact, the better you're able to "read" each other. That doesn't mean you'll like everyone or their responses, but you probably don't in real life either.

[lynzy420]

We interrupt this thread for a very important message....ITS CHRISTMAS! YAY! FELIZ NAVIDAD, MERRY CHRISTMAS....HOHOHOHO!!!!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.....back on topic...bye

[MandiesMom]

I try to stay out of threads that have a tendency to get debates going. I come here for fun and camaraderie with fellow yorkie lovers...not to get stressed out (I get enough of that at work). But the post below made feel compelled to post a few words...

Originally Posted by Belle Noir

... the message is killed by the messenger, in other words, it's not what was said, it was how it was said. I have seen people leave who could have been valuable contributing members of the community, had they just been handled a little differently.

The worse thing is these people that are run off the forum, and make no bones, they are indeed run off the forum.. They're not going to stop having yorkies. BUT now they are not going to utilize their BEST source of information and education because some people decided they did not like the choices they made for their dogs and instead of having a conversation with these people about what they believe is the right way, backed by proof, not just so and so said so, these people have been berated for doing the wrong thing.

Now.. again, they're not leaving the yorkie as a breed. And a chance to educate someone has been lost, because some people in their zeal forgot how to deliver the message and so the message was killed. And these people will go on and breed their yorkies, not knowing and not caring, because they're going to show those stuck up snobby yorkie people a thing or two.

Who suffers in the end? All because someone could not soften the delivery of a message. It doesn't kill anyone to speak a little softer, just to get the message delivered.

This is absolutely and perfectly stated.

Also, I read that Respect thread and there was a post (from a mod I think) that said type what you want to reply and then delete it and start typing again. I actually just did that so great advice LOL

Anyway, the quote above is dead-on. People say "don't shoot the messenger" but what happens when the messenger shoots his own message?

ETA: Merry Christmas, Lynzy! LOL!

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by Belle Noir

bring that up, because it seems to me, in some cases, the message is killed by the messenger, in other words, it's not what was said, it was how it was said. I have seen people leave who could have been valuable contributing members of the community, had they just been handled a little differently. The worse thing is these people that are run off the forum, and make no bones, they are indeed run off the forum

And see, to me, what comes to mind is whiny people that have to be coddled because they just can't take the real world so you need to be extra cautious with them due to their overly sensitive nature....yeah...right...if a few comments on an online community send them running, the real world must absolutely terrify them.

Originally Posted by Belle Noir

And these people will go on and breed their yorkies, not knowing and not caring, because they're going to show those stuck up snobby yorkie people a thing or two.

Wow! These sensitive folks sure have a nice attitude!

Originally Posted by MandiesMom

I try to stay out of threads that have a tendency to get debates going. I come here for fun and camaraderie with fellow yorkie lovers...not to get stressed out (I get enough of that at work). But the post below made feel compelled to post a few words...


This is absolutely and perfectly stated.

And the above points to differences in members of the YT community. This member found the poster I quoted "absolutely and perfectly stated." While, it rubbed me the wrong way. But don't worry, I'm not gonna pack my bags & leave....cos I have my big girl panties on!

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

And see, to me, what comes to mind is whiny people that have to be coddled because they just can't take the real world so you need to be extra cautious with them due to their overly sensitive nature....yeah...right...if a few comments on an online community send them running, the real world must absolutely terrify them.


Wow! These sensitive folks sure have a nice attitude!


And the above points to differences in members of the YT community. This member found the poster I quoted "absolutely and perfectly stated." While, it rubbed me the wrong way. But don't worry, I'm not gonna pack my bags & leave....cos I have my big girl panties on!

sorry sneaking back in...just gotta ask how big are they??