Breeder question

[gemy]

Originally Posted by theresac

She says the breeding pair are w/ her folks out of state & that several of her dogs are from those parents. I called the vet in her town & they knew immediately who she was even though I only told them her 1st name. They seemed to have a good relationship w/ her & I asked a lot of questions & they didn't send up any red flags. This made me feel better about the whole thing...I want to trust my gut on this but I don't want to be stupid about it....
She seemed very knowledgeable about the breed, very willing to share training, grooming & care tips...really took her time w/ us & is willing to keep our pup till Dec 23 when we will pick her up for a Christmas surprise. I want to trust that this is all good & I am NOT a trusting person! Please reassure me or tell me to wake up & smell the coffee!!!

I will put my two cents worth in here. You are worried about getting a healthy dog, then you need to focus your questions, on how well the breeder knows her line and the health problems within her line.

You should get the registered names of both sire and dam and their registration numbers; with this information you can look up what health tests have been posted: www.offa.org, for hips/elbow (Xrays that are evaluated to see if the dogs are clear of dysplasia, CERF will be posted there as well, this tests if either dog suffers from a congential eye problem such as PRA or cataracts. LP - luxating patella should have an evaluation from a vet. A relatively new site call CHIC, www.caninehealthinformation.org, will accumulate all tests done on a particular dog and show the results, the dog will receive a CHIC number once all the required tests that YTCA asks for are complete.

Please know that the breeder should be more than willing to share the registration number and official names of the breeding pair. If not, if there is any demurral I would be very hesitant to go forward with a purchase.

Also if the breeder says that "oh yes I test my dogs", and yet you can find no information on the various health sites I listed above, then you really need to ask why hasn't she posted the results? There is rarely a good reason for not posting good results.

Both sire and dam, should have been BAT tested Bile Acid Test. This helps to determine if the liver is functioning properly. YT's have a high incidence of Liver Shunt (LS).

As well both breeding pair should have had some further pre breeding tests.

I know this is a lot of information to take in, but you did say you want to do your best to secure a healthy pup this time around.

Now unfortunately none of the above tests, are true genetic tests, all they can tell you is that the parents are free of any of the aforementioned diseases. How-ever that is a very important point. Breeders should be breeding healthy dogs. It does not guarantee that your pup will be healthy, but it does offer the best chance that your pup will be!

I would want my pup to be BAT tested prior to picking him up. Usually best done at 16wks of age, although can be done earlier. The test needs to be repeated at 6mths of age.

If you have any questions about the health tests, just ask, I'll be happy to help.

Best of luck in your puppy search.

[Bitsy]

This is great information for everyone. And very kind of you to offer so much help!

Originally Posted by gemy

I will put my two cents worth in here. You are worried about getting a healthy dog, then you need to focus your questions, on how well the breeder knows her line and the health problems within her line.

You should get the registered names of both sire and dam and their registration numbers; with this information you can look up what health tests have been posted: www.offa.org, for hips/elbow (Xrays that are evaluated to see if the dogs are clear of dysplasia, CERF will be posted there as well, this tests if either dog suffers from a congential eye problem such as PRA or cataracts. LP - luxating patella should have an evaluation from a vet. A relatively new site call CHIC, www.caninehealthinformation.org, will accumulate all tests done on a particular dog and show the results, the dog will receive a CHIC number once all the required tests that YTCA asks for are complete.

Please know that the breeder should be more than willing to share the registration number and official names of the breeding pair. If not, if there is any demurral I would be very hesitant to go forward with a purchase.

Also if the breeder says that "oh yes I test my dogs", and yet you can find no information on the various health sites I listed above, then you really need to ask why hasn't she posted the results? There is rarely a good reason for not posting good results.

Both sire and dam, should have been BAT tested Bile Acid Test. This helps to determine if the liver is functioning properly. YT's have a high incidence of Liver Shunt (LS).

As well both breeding pair should have had some further pre breeding tests.

I know this is a lot of information to take in, but you did say you want to do your best to secure a healthy pup this time around.

Now unfortunately none of the above tests, are true genetic tests, all they can tell you is that the parents are free of any of the aforementioned diseases. How-ever that is a very important point. Breeders should be breeding healthy dogs. It does not guarantee that your pup will be healthy, but it does offer the best chance that your pup will be!

I would want my pup to be BAT tested prior to picking him up. Usually best done at 16wks of age, although can be done earlier. The test needs to be repeated at 6mths of age.

If you have any questions about the health tests, just ask, I'll be happy to help.

Best of luck in your puppy search.

[concretegurl]

What's the sales contract & health guarantee state?

[jsargent]

ok guys so Im torn between 2 breeders Im supose to go look at one puppy today here is her link Trisha's Designer Paws - Home the one we are supose to go see tonight is the boy on the nursery page my vet says all her dogs are healthy he delivers all of her pups but Im concerned Im dealing with a puppy mill I need yall's feedback on it and then the other puppy Im supose to go look at tomorrow is the one she has both mom and Dad in her home has papers on them but never sent them off she said I can see the papers and see what i can do with them the only concern I have on this one is the puppy im supose to get was the smaller out of the two that she had at 4 weeks he weighed 1 lb 1 oz the other litter mate was 1 lb 5 oz does that make him a runt and will that mean he will have runt issues my little Prancer was the runt out of 4 puppies and I think that is why he had health problems I did ask my friend that works for the vet this lady brings them to if they run a acid bile test on them to check for a liver shunt . If yall could go check out the link though on the puppy im supose to look at tonight and give me feedback on it i would greatly appreciate it

[gemy]

Jsargent: I looked up Honeybee's site. I just checked out the males, did you notice that she does have CHIC numbers for these dogs? A very very good point in her favor.

I looked at Trisha's Designer Dogs she lets puppies go at 8 wks old! That is way too young for a Yorkie pup. The parent club of the Yorkshire Terrier breed; www.ytca.org stipulates 12 wks old. My breeder as well will not let pups under 2lbs go to a new home; they are so vulnerable when they are tiny.

Trisha says nothing about health and what tests have been done on her dogs. As well she is breeding cross breeds.

Have you read the article in the library, about Guide to finding a responsible breeder?
If not please go to the library to read it. Then when you go to the websites of different breeders you can compare what you find to what is in that article.

In my opinion I would not be looking at any of Trisha's Designer Dogs. The name alone would put me off. Designer Dog >>>>>> term used to attract buyers, it is just a marketing ploy/name to try to get the most money for your mutts!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by jsargent

ok guys so Im torn between 2 breeders Im supose to go look at one puppy today here is her link Trisha's Designer Paws - Home the one we are supose to go see tonight is the boy on the nursery page my vet says all her dogs are healthy he delivers all of her pups but Im concerned Im dealing with a puppy mill I need yall's feedback on it and then the other puppy Im supose to go look at tomorrow is the one she has both mom and Dad in her home has papers on them but never sent them off she said I can see the papers and see what i can do with them the only concern I have on this one is the puppy im supose to get was the smaller out of the two that she had at 4 weeks he weighed 1 lb 1 oz the other litter mate was 1 lb 5 oz does that make him a runt and will that mean he will have runt issues my little Prancer was the runt out of 4 puppies and I think that is why he had health problems I did ask my friend that works for the vet this lady brings them to if they run a acid bile test on them to check for a liver shunt . If yall could go check out the link though on the puppy im supose to look at tonight and give me feedback on it i would greatly appreciate it

Run run run from this breeder!

[concretegurl]

This is the same linked breeder as before only this is the worse counterpart....as Nancy said not only pass but please do not support this type of breeding.

If you would like suggestions to breeders in your area please ask for them

Standard Yorkie get a breeder from the YTCA, as other have suggested.

Otherwise even if you want and off coloration you can be aided in finding a reputable Parti, Gold or chocolate breeder. Personally I only like Partis, but have seen the Gold come up also. I'm really not a supporter of the chocolates but there are a few breeders who do wonderful responsible breeding of them as pets only.

There are only a handful of them in the entire World though so beware of 99.9 % of the off coloration breeders!

I know many people will suggest the nonstandard coloration should not be bred, supported etc I am not one of them and will do what I can to see a reputable breeder of a different assortment can be supported and not some random Greeder with different colored puppies.

Just because someone is a breeder off standard doesn't mean there should be no standards!

Okay that's my whole dime best of luck to you!

[jsargent]

OK so we went and looked at a pup at trisha's designer paws the pup was just precious and she does offer a 2 year health gurantee on liver shunts and hip diplasia but my husband and I stayed in the front part of the house she brought the pup out to us and then went and got the mom from a back room and then put her up and went and got the dad she didnt offer for us to go to the room where she keeps the dogs so that through up a red flag she had a another pregnent yorkie there and a dad that was running loose when i picked him up he just stiffined up she said he doesnt like to be held, the dogs are all very small the pup we looked at she says will weigh between 2-3 lbs and i really think that might be too small for me I really want a 5 lb at fully grown . We are going to look at the other one today the one that the mom and dad has papers but were never sent off for registration (CKC) and her being a private breeder i dont think she has a health gurantee but like i said i know a girl that works for her vet and she says all of her dogs are healthy , now this is the smaller of the 2 that were in the litter at 4 weeks he weighed 1 lb 1 oz and the other in the litter weighed 1 lb 5 oz i just worry about the runt issues is there anything i can do to assure this dog is healthy and not going to have runt issues ?

[bellemarie]

If raised properly, the tiny shouldn't be a runt IMO; they need extra care and attention, but if the breeder and their dogs are good and deserve to breed, then there shouldn't really be an issue (if there are health problems in the line they could show up in the biggest, and not the tiny- it's just depends).
When you say private breeder, what do you mean? Everyone has a slightly differing opinion of what makes who what!
But no matter, she should still have a contract with health guarantee... I'm assuming you mean that she is breeding for herself by private breeder;so look at it like this, if you want a custom built house for yourself, and build two to see which is better for you, you still need to be able to assure (and guarantee) the person buying the other that the roof isn't going to cave in! See what I mean? Honestly, I wouldnt have bothered even contqcting the breeder off the site you posted from last night- far more negatives and positives on there; is this breeder similar at all in breeds and standards?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by jsargent

OK so we went and looked at a pup at trisha's designer paws the pup was just precious and she does offer a 2 year health gurantee on liver shunts and hip diplasia but my husband and I stayed in the front part of the house she brought the pup out to us and then went and got the mom from a back room and then put her up and went and got the dad she didnt offer for us to go to the room where she keeps the dogs so that through up a red flag she had a another pregnent yorkie there and a dad that was running loose when i picked him up he just stiffined up she said he doesnt like to be held, the dogs are all very small the pup we looked at she says will weigh between 2-3 lbs and i really think that might be too small for me I really want a 5 lb at fully grown . We are going to look at the other one today the one that the mom and dad has papers but were never sent off for registration (CKC) and her being a private breeder i dont think she has a health gurantee but like i said i know a girl that works for her vet and she says all of her dogs are healthy , now this is the smaller of the 2 that were in the litter at 4 weeks he weighed 1 lb 1 oz and the other in the litter weighed 1 lb 5 oz i just worry about the runt issues is there anything i can do to assure this dog is healthy and not going to have runt issues ?

You say she offers a two year guarantee on on liver shunts and hip dysplasia, but what does that mean, does she give you MONEY to treat the problem, or does she just offer to give you ANOTHER FREE PUPPIE? No girl who works for a vet would know if all the dogs are healthy, that's why vets do tests. Again, please don't consider buying a CKC registered dog, the CKC will register anything, and this is like buying stolen property, in my opinion. You are probably going to have this dog for 10 or more years, don't look for a bargain, and don't be too anxious. Your best guarantee on getting a healthy dog, is going to a really good breeder.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by jsargent

OK so we went and looked at a pup at trisha's designer paws the pup was just precious and she does offer a 2 year health gurantee on liver shunts and hip diplasia but my husband and I stayed in the front part of the house she brought the pup out to us and then went and got the mom from a back room and then put her up and went and got the dad she didnt offer for us to go to the room where she keeps the dogs so that through up a red flag she had a another pregnent yorkie there and a dad that was running loose when i picked him up he just stiffined up she said he doesnt like to be held, the dogs are all very small the pup we looked at she says will weigh between 2-3 lbs and i really think that might be too small for me I really want a 5 lb at fully grown . We are going to look at the other one today the one that the mom and dad has papers but were never sent off for registration (CKC) and her being a private breeder i dont think she has a health gurantee but like i said i know a girl that works for her vet and she says all of her dogs are healthy , now this is the smaller of the 2 that were in the litter at 4 weeks he weighed 1 lb 1 oz and the other in the litter weighed 1 lb 5 oz i just worry about the runt issues is there anything i can do to assure this dog is healthy and not going to have runt issues ?

Yes seee post no 46.

[gemy]

Js Argent did you actually leave with a copy of the health guarantee? So you and your husband can read it at your leisure?

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by bellemarie

If raised properly, the tiny shouldn't be a runt IMO; .... Honestly, I wouldnt have bothered even contqcting the breeder off the site you posted from last night- far more negatives and positives on there; is this breeder similar at all in breeds and standards?

A tiny shouldn't be a runt? You lost me right there...
After the honestly I'm back with ya and understanding what you are saying.

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

A tiny shouldn't be a runt? You lost me right there...
After the honestly I'm back with ya and understanding what you are saying.

When I think of a runt, I always think of little one who has just been left to it by a breeder who doesn't care or think to do anything about a fading puppy- and therefore hasn't thought to check the parents are actually healthy...
Therefore, I always think of the good litters tiny (not runt)- the littlest one who isn't as big as the others, but after a little helping hand at the start, has and will grow healthy and happy as the rest!
My kandi (corgiX) was a runt- she would have been dead By 6 weeks if the 'breeder' hadn't given her to us early (5 1/2)... She cared That little about them

I am terrible at wording things; so with that in mind, does the above make sense?

[maci_mace]

I just wanted to point out, you should ask to see the registration papers even if they haven't been sent off. They could be Canadian or Continental. Canadian is good, but then there's the question why not send them in, it'd be worthwhile to have your lines registered and proved to some degree, unless of course she doesn't have breeding rights.

However in the states it's more likely NOT Candian... Continental papers aren't worth a penny and aren't worth sending in because it means nothing. Just mean you're dogs supposed breed has been regisitered, but could infact be completely false, nothing fancy there.