Why 12 Weeks?

[Belle Noir]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I didn't read that hole post above.......... It was not really your question that bothered me it was the fact that you called mother dogs greedy hags. The fact that you can look at a mother dog and say that after all the work they do and apparently have no connection with the mother dog and say you where a breeder really upsets me and makes me feel bad for any dogs you breed. Small breeds are different the large breeds and whether you chose to believe that or not it is a fact large breeds grow and mature faster then smaller breeds.

What I wrote was a tongue in cheek joke.
I always free fed my bitches when I bred. Not only did they have constant dry food in front of them, but they had "momma's mana" twice a day, which was a concoction I made for them to help promote optimum health for them and their pups.
I NEVER had a bitch drop weight, even the one that whelped 13 puppies for me, (granted, I helped bottle feed the pups), but I regularly had litters of 8-10, and never had a mother out of condition due to pups putting too much of a strain on her system, or not being fed enough.
And yet it never failed, as soon as I put food in front of the babies, momma would steal it. So I started weaning away from momma, and she could clean up nasty yucky crawled in the gruel covered babies once they were done. And YES I will JOKE about my bitches being greedy hags when they had no reason other than greed to steal baby gruel.

If one of your HUMAN friends stole her baby's Gerber's Strained Banana, you would call her a greedy hag too, and you wouldn't be joking about it, especially if you knew there was no reason for her to eat her infants food.

You can feel sorry for the dogs I bred all you want, but my dogs were cared for better than anything in my life, including myself. The ONLY exception would be my children.
My friends would joke and say when they die, they want to come back as one of my dogs. Hell, my VET said he wanted to come back as one of my dogs!!!

And actually, larger breeds mature slower than small breeds, though they do grow faster. This is why a Rott isn't considered mature until about 3 or 4 years.
My dogs while not toys, were not large by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I think there are some "teapots" here that are bigger than some of my dogs.
The LARGEST my dogs hit were 30lbs for males by the time I had my line breeding as I wanted it to, and 25 was the largest for females, my smallest was 19 lbs at maturity.. Yes, still considerably larger than a breeding quality yorkie bitch, but by no means a large dog.

[Belle Noir]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I think this site answers the question about the 12 week rule. Why do Maltese puppies need to be 12 weeks old before going to a new home??. It talks about Maltese puppies, but the same thing would be true for all toy breeds.



If you read this, you will learn there are important health reasons as well as socialization reasons, including inhibition of the biting relax. In other words, mama teaches puppy not to bite with all its strength. Good breeders have told me that their bitches also begin the housebreaking process by pushing puppies to pee pads, and it's no accident that people who have bought puppies younger than 12 weeks seem to have more problems with housebreaking and biting.

Thank you Nancy.
When I asked the question it was THIS information I was looking for. I appreciate you finding it for me, because I could not find it myself, on the Yorkie sites I was looking through.
The most important thing to me, seems to be about the teeth. Puppies can't really eat all that much if they don't have teeth, can they?

I have said in this thread, that should I get another puppy in the future, I do want it to be an "older" puppy.. Because I wasn't prepared for how TINY Pixie was, and I was freaked out most of the time, worrying about squishing her, lol.
And because of the information you and others have shared with me concerning certain health aspects, I do believe it is in the puppies best interest.
So again, thank you for this information.

[Belle Noir]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I've seen a couple of comments here along the lines of puppies and children being cuter and more desirable at younger ages than slightly older. I would have to say that if that is a criteria in why you are bringing one home when you do, then perhaps a stuffed animal would be a better idea. That way it will stay little and cute forever. If you can't "bond" with an older child or dog, then the problem lies more with you than them.

As to whether one "believes" a pup is healthier at 12 weeks versus 8, one only has to look at basic biology. Specifically, the age at which the natural immunity passed from dam to pup starts to vanish. At 8 weeks, the immunity conferred during gestation and nursing has all but vanished and the pups are still too young to be immunized safely or effectively- that leaves them vulnerable to a whole host of potentially deadly diseases. Lets face it, MOST pet owners don't take the advice of keeping the pups away from public access until they are full immunized. At 12 weeks, their immune system is at least minimally responsive to vaccines.

In addition, the incidence of hypoglycemia decreases with the maturation of the body's ability to maintain glucose homeostasis. Part of that process is the availability of body fat to convert to glucose. The larger the pup, the better the process (baring any other underlying diseases).

Liver shunts are another problem with this breed. The minimum age for getting base line testing is 16 weeks. An experienced breeder is cognizant of the signs and symptoms of liver shunts and MVD that can appear in younger pups.

The socialization issues have already been well covered here.

Can a pup be brought home safely before 12 weeks? Yes. But just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done if it's not in the best interest of the dog to do it.

Somehow I missed you, and I'm sorry.
Thank you, as with Nancy's post, this is what kind of health reasons I was looking for, that should be important to all Yorkie lovers, breeders or buyers.

Real reasons, not just because someone said so.
I keep telling everyone I am new to Yorkies, not to dogs, so I have a skewed mindset when it comes to dogdom. Not that I am not willing to learn, but I need to ask questions. I'm not always going to agree with the reasons given, especially when they go against what I have known for most of my life.
BUT I am willing to listen, and I am willing to learn, and I am willing to say you're right! Or at the very least admit when a lightbulb goes off in my head.
It's funny, because though I watch Pixie for the signs of liver shunt.. I had not actually thought of that as a reason. And this is why I ask these questions that seem to have obvious answers. Because the answer isn't obvious to me.
When I read your reply and I got to the liver shuts, it was like a lightbulb went off. I already agreed with the other health reasons given, but this was just one more factor for WHY 12 weeks is minimally what is best for the puppies.
And that is what matters throughout all of this.. what is best for the puppies.


I appreciate your answers. You always have great information, and you never come across as condemning in your words.
Because of that, I don't feel defensive when you reply. If you want to reach through the interwebs and throttle me, it never comes across in your replies, and I thank you for that.

[concretegurl]

Figuring out what went wrong between Kim & Kris is more prevelent to Yorkies...anyone think Gizmo might need therapy?

Hmmmm especially if Gizmo was purchased from an unrepeatable breeder who gave him away prior to 12 weeks...

[maci_mace]

I'm not a breeder, nor am I a super duper experiences yorkie owner.
But here are the reasons I would say any breed that is said to mature 15lbs or under should be kept until 10-12weeks at least.

They are tiny. Much tinier than medium and large breeds at this age. Therefore the extra couple-few weeks with mom will allow them to be a more appropriate size, be abe to handle solid foods better as their teeth come in better, and have a lesser chance of hypoglecemia [sp?] I do believe that they also learn a lot of their manners at 6-10 weeks. But it is the new owners responsibility to keep up with discipline and corrections for biting, housetraining, etc.

Just what I think anyways. Bringing home a black lab at 8 weeks is much different than bringing home a yorkie at 8 weeks. Everything from size, teeth, eyes, how/what they eat because of their size.

[Teresa Ford]

WHO SAYS ? Years ago, when I was breeding and training Labs many new studies and ideas were popping up. I have read quite a few studies about critical stages in puppy's life. I am familiar with many of the things OP posted. Just googel,Super dogs are made not born It was the Breeder's Bible to many.
I am sure some of the older breeders remember this study and used it.
Newer studies have been done since. Ideas have changed and some public opinion has convinced some breeders that puppies benefit by staying longer with the mother dog and litter. There will always be debate in the dog world, just like there is debate about child rearing, religion, politics and how to spend your money.
Just because we really truly belive something does not mean it is true. We can now prove the world is not flat. But, some things can not be proven with unbiased testing, or factual, science. With living beings there is the individuality factor. Not even identical twins or genetic clones produce the same results in tests. When there is no ultimate authority, we must gather as much information as possible and decide for ourself what we belive. Life experience can teach us a lot but, not everything we want to know. Sometimes we just have to go with the majority or pick our authority. The YTCA says puppies should stay with their mothers until they are 12 weeks old. I will go along with that unless another study convinces me that this is wrong. Just my opinion, just my thoughts....

[concretegurl]

Word of the day:
subjective.
I.e. psychology is a subjective science....

[TeddyGrahams]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Word of the day:
subjective.
I.e. psychology is a subjective science....

[TwoforFun]

I see nothing wrong with asking what is not understood. This is a touchy subject because many of this readers have read many sad stories of puppies tragic roads because of hyperglycemia and there's many fluffs in the pound for biting behavior.

I am not a breeder so I can only say I think it's safer for the toy breed to stay with their mother those few extra weeks. There still so tiny I probably won't distinguished the extra weeks.

I do hope your research does change your mind in this topic. That way when someone in the future asks this question you will have the answer they require. There is no reason for you to settle for a reason if you don't see the whole picture. Once you fully understand you will be able to help others understand.

[Belle Noir]

This is grave digging, but apparently a post was made on my thread, a year after the last post, and I cannot, and will not let it go unanswered.

TwoforFun: I do not know what you got from this thread, but apparently you did not clearly read what I wrote.

And so I will say it again, without a wall of text.
What does it matter that I do not agree with the behavioral aspects given as the reason for 12 weeks being the minimum age a yorkie should go to it's new home, when I agreed (and always agreed) with all the HEALTH reasons given? However, there was only one health reason that I knew about.

Now, I can explain to people that if they get a yorkie puppy, the puppy NEEDS to be AT LEAST 12 weeks, because then the puppy's teeth will all be out, and the puppy can eat, (minimizing the chances for hypoglycemia). That the puppy will have had at least 2 shots, and the passive immunity they got from their mom will have begun to fade, so the shots are effective. That the breeder will have observed the puppy and if the puppy has an increased chance of having liver shunt, the experienced breeder may recognize it, and not sell the puppy until it has been tested. I can utilize the information passed to me by knowledgeable breeders on this site to inform people interested in puppies to find a breeder that will NOT sell before 12 weeks of age, for health reasons that anyone and everyone can understand, leaving out behavioral issues that many people have different opinions about and may not agree with.
The HEALTH reasons given for this age limit are NOT subjective.
Sooo... What is it that I should be changing my mind about?? And what it is you think I do not fully understand?

[MishyMish]

This has been going on for years...

[mcclaina]

I have always met my puppies early, between 3 and 4 weeks. I have also always taken my pup home by 8 weeks and believe in many ways this has made the bond that much closer. I understand the concerns stated by the people who believe differently, but I have honestly never had a breeder ask me to wait until the pup was 12 weeks old before taking her home. In my opinion, most educated people that are responsible pet owners are capable of handling the parenting needs of an 8 week old Yorkie pup.

[Yorkiemomma78]

I havent read this entire thread (but I will) so I´m sorry if I repeat anything someone else has said

I have had 5 yorkshire terriers including the two I have now.I have also fostered puppies,I´ve adopted many dogs,not to mention bigger breeds that I have actually bought to guard our house etc.I have even fostered new born pups and raised them with a bottle.

In all the years I have been a dog owner I have never had a single issue with any of my pups (and one of my yorkies was 2lbs as a adult) and each and every one of them came home before the age of 8 weeks.As a rule,the age you can take a puppy home here is 45 days old.

Milo and Bella (my two 1 year old yorkie pups) came home at 6 weeks old.Was it hard? No.To me,it´s all that I know and it´s how things are done here (Mallorca,Spain) so all dog owners here take their dogs home at the age of 6 weeks (45 days) and they get on with it just fine.Chihuahuas,yorkies,german sheppards etc etc,it doesnt matter what size or what breed they are,at 6 weeks old,they go to their forever homes.

We cannot buy Karo syrup,NutriCal or other products to prevent hypoglycemia here,yet people get by and they always have.
I really do think (and this is just a personal opinion based on experience and the way things have always been done here) that saying that a puppy cannot go to its forever home until 12 weeks is a little steep,because it can be done and it actually is done is most countries all the time

I also think that in America everything is more strict (which is good of course,dont get me wrong) .
Here a purebred dog doesnt cost thousands even if you go with the most reputable breeders,dogs are rarely spayed and neutered,regular people breed their purebred pets,very few purebred dogs have paperwork,vet bills are very cheap,no breeder sells a puppy with a breeding contract (I think that´s what you call it?) and everything is more laid back.

I think everything depends on where you are

[Ellie May]

i also think it may be a bit steep. Not a popular opinion, but one that is held by many countries.

If a new owner is home most of the time they should be perfectly capable of watching for hypo. As for behavior, the dogs around the dog duringits lfe are going to help shape that. I don't think 12 weeks is wrong. I don't necessarily think 9 or 10 weeks is always wrong either. I see a trend where now it is 14 to 16 weeks. What next? Eighteen weeks to make sure all vaccines are given? Six months so all puppies are altered first? As far as maturnal antibodies and vaccines go, they will be unprotected oth with the owner and the breeder. That is not oing to matter in most cases.

Small dogs do mature faster.
they are at more of a hypo risk, but not just breeders can detect this.
I think I'd sooner take the pup home where I could set up safe socialization situations than wait 12 to 14 weeks while pup sits in an xpen with mom and siblings. jmo

[lynzy420]

Just poke my eyes out someone....pleaseeeeeeee???????