Why 12 Weeks?

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

At the latest! Potty-training has never been an issue with any dog I've had. But, I'll readily admit, it's not a miracle...I do put the training time in, and completely clear my schedule so I'm available 24/7 for the first few weeks.

Sorry but I do not believe you can have a dog 100% potty trained by 12 weeks.

[Danirenae]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Sorry but I do not believe you can have a dog 100% potty trained by 12 weeks.

mine is 4mon and still not 100% potty trained

[concretegurl]

Different breeds different needs...you have to understand that before anyone can explain anything else to you IMHO>

12 WEEK is A MINIMUM! As someone else noted 16 weeks even...

If you want a genuine answer otherwise please search 12 weeks on the search function here and do a lot of reading.

[concretegurl]

Why the heck does everyone want a puppy anyways I want a fully trained dog (younger not infantile) no issues breeders you to send you dog potty trained, doing sit stay leash walking etc etc at a much older age like 6 months! Think about it grown not loosing teeth, pee or pooh non crazy chewing fur ball next time I adopt-what's the thoughts on that?

[hnybun128]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Why the heck does everyone want a puppy anyways I want a fully trained dog (younger not infantile) no issues breeders you to send you dog potty trained, doing sit stay leash walking etc etc at a much older age like 6 months! Think about it grown not loosing teeth, pee or pooh non crazy chewing fur ball next time I adopt-what's the thoughts on that?

Ha! I think that's brilliant!!!

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Sorry but I do not believe you can have a dog 100% potty trained by 12 weeks.

Well, I'm sure as hell not lying!

Baring health issues, there is absolutely no physical reason why a dog cannot be potty trained by 12 weeks. You're talking the opportunity for reinforcement, multiple times per day, every day, for a MONTH. How would you not expect it to be trained? And if it's not, I'd say the problem lies with the owner, not the pup! And the longer such behaviour goes on the more difficult it will be to correct...which again..is why I'd rather have my pup as young as possible because I don't find pee/pooping in my house, anywhere other than potty pads, acceptable.

[Britster]

I do believe a dog CAN be potty trained by 12 weeks old. It's certainly possible. I know lots of large breed dogs who are potty trained by that age. But I admit I haven't met a small dog who was 100% by then. I think it's absolutely wonderful to expect it and work hard enough for it, but I also don't believe that if a 13 week old dog has an accident in the house, it makes the owner a bad trainer or owner.

I had a wonderful schedule with Jackson when I first brought him home. I was lucky that I was on winter break and able to be with him a lot. We had a fantastic schedule where I tried not to set him up to fail at all and worked really hard with him. By 5 months, he knew all sorts of commands/tricks already, he was almost trustworthy. But just because my 6 month old dog had an occasional poop accident in the house did not make me an incompetent trainer. It's VERY normal for a dog to regress in any sort of training as well as going through those 'teenage' phases. I know someone with a Border Collie (who are the smartest breed out there) who began pottying in the house again at 7 months old... fantastic dog owner and trainer, but still, accidents happen.

I do think one should not have an adult dog constantly pottying in the house... every day would not be acceptable for me. My dads dog poops in the house once or twice a day, but whenever I am there, all I have to do is WALK her outside and make SURE she goes. Then she gets praise. I try, but my dad is too lazy, lol. So in that case, it's the owner being stupid.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by Britster

I know someone with a Border Collie (who are the smartest breed out there) who began pottying in the house again at 7 months old... fantastic dog owner and trainer, but still, accidents happen.
.......
My dads dog poops in the house once or twice a day, but whenever I am there, all I have to do is WALK her outside and make SURE she goes.

Good point Brit! I'm being narrow-minded thinking soley of my own situation. All my dogs have been pad trained. I forget about those that outdoor train. A dog of mine has never had to wait to go potty (other than at night), they just have to know where I expect them to go. I forget about the ones that have to hold it & wait for the owner to get home to go outside. It probably is a whole different experience when it comes to potty-training. Ooops...my bad!

[Britster]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

Good point Brit! I'm being narrow-minded thinking soley of my own situation. All my dogs have been pad trained. I forget about those that outdoor train. A dog of mine has never had to wait to go potty (other than at night), they just have to know where I expect them to go. I forget about the ones that have to hold it & wait for the owner to get home to go outside. It probably is a whole different experience when it comes to potty-training. Ooops...my bad!

Well, you are in the minority then, because I find that most people who pad train have dogs that are never 100%. lol. I don't think I'd ever pad train a dog unless I was working super long hours and could not get a dog out in some way or the dog had a medical problem. I don't like pee and poop in the house at all (even on a pad). So I commend you!

[maggiesmom_2007]

I do want to add a few things. By the time a litter at my house is getting pretty steady on their feet they have already started potty training 101. so that by the time 12 weeks rolls around all the new owner needs to do is put the pad down and put the gates up and have a potty party each time the pup goes where it's supposed to. If you reinforce good behavior the puppy no matter what breed will learn that if it wants treats or belly rubs or whatever it will do what you are asking of it. But always remember training is on going . Also by the time a pup leaves my house walking on a lead or harness, pottying, no bite, leave it, etc are already taught. Also alot of behavior issues are due to temperament problems in the parents. This is why alot of good breeders on here stress what needs to be done before anyone breeds. Mainly the testing but you also have to have the correct match . So it's not always just because of the people that are raising the pups it's also issues with the dogs being bred that the owners did not take the time to consider before breeding their dogs.

[Belle Noir]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

Well, I'm with you on this!

I would much rather get my pup at 8 weeks than 12. For me, that cute puppy stage is such an amazing & short period, and the longer puppy period I get the better. I'd rather have that extra month with my puppy!

I've never had a problem with bite inhibition, housebreaking, or other behaviour issues with a dog....and the more I read about them on here the stronger I feel it has alot more to do with the person raising the pup than the pup itself (just like any other form of parenting...) Given a choice, I want my pup as soon as it's able to eat kibble!

The good thing about toys, is their cute puppy stage lasts forever, lol. I don't think I would have missed much with Pixie being 12 weeks as opposed to 8 weeks, except for the time.
But I can respect that. With larger breeds, the puppy stage is much shorter, and so you want that time in. I do think we can safely forgo that with toys, because they never really grow up. But some like yourself want as much time with their puppies as they can get, and I do understand.

I guess what I'm trying to do is get more in-depth information on this general rule of thumb. Because as I have said, OTHER THAN hypoglycemia, the reasons give don't make sense to me. So that is what I'm trying to understand.

Originally Posted by gemy

Well from my point of view; first if the YTCA a respected breed club, with hundreds of years of combined breed experience recommends 12wks and 2 pounds; that is pretty persuasive to me, that it is in the best interests of the puppy and new puppy owner.

I think that 2lbs is still very tiny, but I'm thankful that my pup didn't come home when he only weighed a pound!. It is my understanding that the smaller weight wise a pup is the more danger of hypogylcemia.

A quality breeder of Yorkies, during that "additional" 4 wk or more period, can make a huge difference in the nature and character of the puppy. Basic obedience, hard food eating, learning more to focus on humans, she even begins leash training (in house), and toy motivation skills. But if the breeder doesn't add valuable life lessons to the puppy, still the puppy can learn more from Mom and siblings.

Funny my breeder and I were just having a discussion about best age to take puppy home. One pretty salient point she made was, if the breeder does no training of pup (and here specifically we were talking about older pups 4mths on), then it is best if pup goes to owner earlier so this can be done. As a breeder she has often had to deal with Yorkies who come to her at an older age and know nothing but kennel life.
It takes much time to socialize these dogs, give them confidence when outside, but certainly can be done.
I'd certainly wouldn't hesitate to take an older dog from Ilona.

I see your point, but I have never been one to agree with someone just because someone else, no matter how well known or respected says so. I can't disagree with the YTCA of what they say doesn't make any sense to me.
But no one place or person, or group of people is the end all and be all of anything.
It is indeed possible for someone to be a top breeder of yorkies and not be a member of the YTCA, if ONLY for the reason that they haven't been sponsored or their sponsor doesn't live close to them.
9) Members shall sponsor an applicant for membership only if the member has personally known the applicant for a minimum of two years. At least one of the sponsoring members must have visited the applicant's facility one or more times during the two years immediately preceding the application date.
That doesn't mean that said hypothetical breeder isn't ethical, isn't a good breeder, doesn't actually go by YTCA COE rules... but they're not a member.

I suppose that I would not have brought this up if there were similar codicils on other breeds. One would think that the Chihuahua Club of America would have similar guide lines, considering that chihuahuas and yorkies have similar issues. But they don't. But the Maltese Club does. Toy Fox Terrier Club doesn't. Silky Club says puppies can go at 8 weeks. The Pom Club says not before 10 weeks.
Mind you, I am trying to pick out the toys that are comparative in size to the Yorkie. While I don't believe that a toy is a toy is a toy, I do believe in comparing dogs of a similar type, be that breed type or size.
I do not know why the different toy clubs have different rules with regards to the release of puppies, but I do find it interesting that there is no consensus, especially with the Chihuahua, which shares the smallest breed title with the Yorkie.
I don't think that Chihuahua people care about their puppies any less than Yorkie people do. I do believe that Chihuahua people care just as much for their puppies. So why do THEY not ask the same thing of their COE breeders... Unless I missed something on their site.
I am not asking anyone to answer that question, I am explaining why I am asking MY question. One of the reasons, at least.

I do agree that a quality breeder can enhance a puppy through the reasons you listed. But as you also stated, this breeder of yours has had to deal with kennel bound puppies, coming, one would assume from other COE breeders, or at the very least reputable breeders who did nothing for their pups emotional health.
Not that I am impugning their reputation, but I feel that kennel raising dogs is borderline cruelty. My opinion only. And I can't say that a puppy raised for 12 weeks in a kennel situation is better than a puppy that is 12 weeks old but in a home situation since 8 weeks.

Oh, and I might have mentioned it, but Pixie didn't hit 2 lbs until she was 4 and a half months. Part of it might have been the food, since I have switched her food, she is a lot more solid and less frail to the touch. She's even gotten a song about how fat she is, because she feels so much heavier than she did.
I cannot see where the YTCA says 2 lbs, but if so, then I would not have gotten Pixie until 4 and a half months.. And I wouldn't have wanted to miss those 2 and a half months for the world. Though I would have liked her to be a BIT bigger.. 1 lb 1 ounce at 9 weeks is TINY!

Originally Posted by LDMomma

I've gotten two dogs at 8 weeks and one at 12 weeks (our fourth is a rescue and was an adult when she came home).

My 8 weekers were almost unbearable nippers in the beginning. It took a while to teach them not to nip.

My 12 weeker- no nipping.

One 8 weeker and my 12 weeker had a hard time potty-training. My other 8 weeker came to us potty-trained and hasn't had an accident since.

None of my dogs have had a hypoglycemia event, which must have been a stroke of luck because we knew nothing when we brought our first girl home.

The breeder I got my last puppy from holds them until 16 weeks.

Just goes to show that every dog is an individual. 12 and 8 weeker not potty trained, 8 weeker potty trained, 8 weekers nippy, 12 weeker not nippy.
Mind if I ask how small was the first one when you brought them home? I am truly curious.

[CouversMom]

[Taryn0405]

Originally Posted by CouversMom

[concretegurl]

Here's a few reasons I remember off hand from respectable responsible breeders on here:
Socialization, temperament, hypoglycemia, death rates, onset of anxiety & other disorders, whelping ability, decreased rate of food aggression #1 reason dogs don't pass temperament testing at animal control facilities in CA and are put down oh and potty training...

[lovespandp]

Originally Posted by Danirenae

mine is 4mon and still not 100% potty trained

Mine is 4 years and not potty trained.... 100%