Spay and Neuter: When and If ever?

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I agree with everything you say here. That's why I wish there were a science forum on Yorkietalk where we could dispassionately discuss the science behind these articles without fear of someone taking a single sentence out of context and reaching the conclusion that because there are *some* bad health effects of neutering, they therefore should not have their dog neutered. I agree that overall, the benefits of neutering far outweigh the drawbacks for all dogs except for breeding stock and perhaps a few sporting dogs who have extremely conscientious owners.

I am sure there are such forums somewhere. I honestly don't understand why it must be discussed here on YT like this. It pops up every time someone asks about spay/neuter and it is worrisome to me. Way too many oopsies on this forum as it is....why encourage more?

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I am sure there are such forums somewhere. I honestly don't understand why it must be discussed here on YT like this. It pops up every time someone asks about spay/neuter and it is worrisome to me. Way too many oopsies on this forum as it is....why encourage more?

Well, Yorkietalk is the premier cream-of-the-crop discussion forum for all things Yorkie. We REALLY need a science forum, just like there is a breeder forum. It's not my intention to confuse people who are struggling with the question of whether or not they should get their dog neutered. The answer is clearly yes in 99+% of the instances. But we need a place to discuss cutting edge science without fear of encouraging people to do the wrong thing. And if science ever does give a definitive answer on the health effects of neutering Yorkies in particular, that is something that should be of interest to everyone.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I agree with everything you say here. That's why I wish there were a science forum on Yorkietalk where we could dispassionately discuss the science behind these articles without fear of someone taking a single sentence out of context and reaching the conclusion that because there are *some* bad health effects of neutering, they therefore should not have their dog neutered. I agree that overall, the benefits of neutering far outweigh the drawbacks for all dogs except for breeding stock and perhaps a few sporting dogs who have extremely conscientious owners.

I would agree that de-sexing at the right time for the breed of dog you have is likely overall okay for most females of "most" breeds, according to the research I have read. But not for all female breeds.

I would agree that for ease of ownership issues, for most males, de-sexing at the optimal time is and can be done for ease of ownership. I do not think there is again according to the research I have read, an obvious health advantage and for many breeds there are some very concerning health dis-advantages particularly by breed type.

[ladyjane]

Yes, well we are discussing Yorkshire Terriers on this forum who have been sadly overbred to a point of ruining the breed imho.

Sadly, many people are going to see threads like this and allow it to feed into their fears and there will be even more oopsies....something this breed does not need. Oh, and never mind that sometimes it is putting the lives of their pets at risk .... and all they were doing was reading something that made them think that altering their pets was just so horribly wrong. You can sit and harp about the right time and all but let us also keep in mind that it will also put the females at a higher risk for mammary tumors. They should worry about a CCL tear over that? I think not. This is just mind boggling to me.

Let us keep in mind that many people don't even know the difference between their and there and your and your're and all of this scientific jargon is being flooded here .. I don't mean to say anyone is dumb....just trying to think about the people who really do not understand all of this. I totally believe in keeping things simple. I try always to explain things in a way that all people will understand. We cannot always assume that the audience can wade through the muck, so to speak.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by gemy

[/B]

I would agree that de-sexing at the right time for the breed of dog you have is likely overall okay for most females of "most" breeds, according to the research I have read. But not for all female breeds.

I would agree that for ease of ownership issues, for most males, de-sexing at the optimal time is and can be done for ease of ownership. I do not think there is again according to the research I have read, an obvious health advantage and for many breeds there are some very concerning health dis-advantages particularly by breed type.

Well yes, definitely at the right time for the breed of dog in question. The reason I added the caveat about conscientious owners is that even for breeds where spaying is a health concern, if the owner is not responsible and keeping their female dogs in heat on lockdown, it would still be better to spay than have an unplanned pregnancy (in my opinion).

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Well, Yorkietalk is the premier cream-of-the-crop discussion forum for all things Yorkie. We REALLY need a science forum, just like there is a breeder forum. It's not my intention to confuse people who are struggling with the question of whether or not they should get their dog neutered. The answer is clearly yes in 99+% of the instances. But we need a place to discuss cutting edge science without fear of encouraging people to do the wrong thing. And if science ever does give a definitive answer on the health effects of neutering Yorkies in particular, that is something that should be of interest to everyone.

There are a couple of people who believe we "need" it...I am not one of them; but it is not my forum. If they create a forum for that, it's all good in my book.

I personally don't understand the "need" but that does not mean it is not needed.

If it is confusing to people as you acknowledge it could be, then why do it? That is honestly my question.

Yes, if science does come up with a definitive answer, I agree all should be made aware; but the fact is there is no definitive answer for yorkies and IMHO people need to do what has been recommended until there is.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Well yes, definitely at the right time for the breed of dog in question. The reason I added the caveat about conscientious owners is that even for breeds where spaying is a health concern, if the owner is not responsible and keeping their female dogs in heat on lockdown, it would still be better to spay than have an unplanned pregnancy (in my opinion).

Those are the key words, Phil; and I can promise you there are more irresponsible than responsible pet owners in this world.

[gemy]

Golden Retriever Lifetime Study takes off - VIN


Please see the article. Linked above. A very interesting read.


And from the Morris Foundation Site.

A Golden Opportunity to Fight Cancer
We’re looking for a few good pups—3,000 to be exact—to be part of the most groundbreaking study ever undertaken to improve the lives of dogs. Morris Animal Foundation’s Golden Retriever Lifetime Study tracks volunteer dogs’ health for life in order to gain insights into preventing and treating cancer and other canine diseases.
Be Part of History
This is the largest and longest study ever conducted to advance veterinary medicine for dogs.
Help Determine Risk Factors for Canine Diseases
The genetic, environmental and nutritional data from participating dogs will help us learn how to prevent cancer and other canine diseases.
Improve the Health of Future Generations
What is learned from the Golden Retrievers in the study will give all dogs a brighter, healthier future.


And interesting enough one of their sponsoring $$ partners is the Golden Retreiver Foundation. And they receive their support from:..
The Foundation has received exceptional support from several sources including:

Annual giving as an option through the GRCA membership renewals.

Proceeds from the annual Art Auction at the GRCA National Specialty.

Funding from generous donors who have offered tributes and memorials to favorite dogs, human friends, celebration of new litters, etc.

GRCA member clubs holding special fund raisers or sharing profits from other events.

Bequests from people wanting to continue their support of Golden Retrievers.

Challenges in which one or more persons has matched contributions up to a specified amount

This looks to be a landmark study that is long awaited and quite frankly long overdue.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Those are the key words, Phil; and I can promise you there are more irresponsible than responsible pet owners in this world.

I agree with you on that, and believe me, I do see where you are coming from. I wish people had to take dog parenting classes before they could own a dog .

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I agree with you on that, and believe me, I do see where you are coming from. I wish people had to take dog parenting classes before they could own a dog .

So do I !!! I also wish they would face the same penalties for neglect that people do when they neglect their children.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Let us all keep in mind that most of the time CCL injuries are due to luxating patellas which are considered to be genetic. Some of these examples and comparisons are misleading if you ask me.

The bottom line is that someone said that MOST owners should not have intact dogs and I could not agree more. The vast numbers of unwanted dogs in this county is beyond comprehension; and I think it is irresponsible for anyone who truly loves animals to advocate that ALL pet owners worry about altering their pets. Of course those are just my thoughts....and yes, I know people will spout their opinions just as I will spout mine.

I could not agree with you more. There is so much more that goes into it then just what size the dog was or if they where fixed.

[Lovetodream88]

I don't get why posting studies of larger breed dogs are on topic here and why we are even talking about it because this is a Yorkshire Terrier post bored. Lets see the studies and talk of small breed dogs if not why is it being posted here?

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I don't get why posting studies of larger breed dogs are on topic here and why we are even talking about it because this is a Yorkshire Terrier post bored. Lets see the studies and talk of small breed dogs if not why is it being posted here?

Great point! There are so many health concerns that are truly relevant to Yorkies. Those issues make the case for spay/neuter!!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Well yes, definitely at the right time for the breed of dog in question. The reason I added the caveat about conscientious owners is that even for breeds where spaying is a health concern, if the owner is not responsible and keeping their female dogs in heat on lockdown, it would still be better to spay than have an unplanned pregnancy (in my opinion).

And those equations and balancing of risks/benefits must be discussed by a) a knowledgeable about their breed pet owner, and their own vet.

Quite frankly with the "huge" risk of hemangiosarcoma in both female and male GR's that were neutered either early or late, some studies are showing 1 in 5 GR's are dying of this at anywhere from 5-7 yrs old.
If you see one of my posts or links below, it is why there is huge support for the Lifetime GR study, which btw, the results of which should benefit many many breeds.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I don't get why posting studies of larger breed dogs are on topic here and why we are even talking about it because this is a Yorkshire Terrier post bored. Lets see the studies and talk of small breed dogs if not why is it being posted here?

Great point Taylor