Heartbroken...my Yorkie is gone

[addevo]

Originally Posted by MissFlora

Lily is spayed. She had all of her shots—everything. We were able to afford her health care, including grooming and vet bills (teeth cleaning, etc.). ...

... The only hitch is the breeder said she would still like to see her on occasion and meet my sister and I. We are considering the suggestion to ask to purchase her. That would take care of any issues that might arise.

I'm happy to hear that Lily is spayed. That protects her from being used only for her profit-making potential.

But regarding future "visiting rights," the rescue who blessed us with our little Wendell went through that question with his previous owner. They told us that they don't ever agree to such an arrangement because it only confuses the dog. It might make the human feel better, but the dog doesn't understand why they are being left behind, AGAIN. It's like ripping off a bandage over and over. If the breeder truly wants what's best for Lily, she won't want to put her through that. Lily has been shuffled around enough. You could promise to send her occasional pictures and email updates, but please don't agree to any future visits.

And please talk to the lawyer who offered to help you. You need to know your rights, and as the lawyer said, police are often the source of alot of mis-information. They go the Police Academy, not law school.

[MissFlora]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Sorry, I hope I didn't offend you, I wasn't sure if you were aware of the extra cost associated with yorkies, I had to take Joey to the emergency room twice the first year, and neither incident could have been prevented or foreseen. Of course emergency room want credit cards or money up front, and it’s really important to plan for this event. Best of luck, I hope everything works out!

No, you honestly didn't offend me. I didn't mean to come across as offended in my response. I just didn't want anyone to think I'm was neglecting Lily or anything. I was just so dumbfounded and grieved by the entire event I really wondered how I could live without her or another Yorkie in the house, so that's why I asked about getting another Yorkie. They are a costly dog for sure, but we really do love the breed. Priceless for the money spent.

[MissFlora]

Originally Posted by Ojai

Oh, Baby. I could not even make it through the rest of this thread yet. I am a lawyer in California (26 years) and you did not have to give her back. Police will do or say anything to "keep the peace." Regrettably, they are often the providers of the most inaccurate information. If you have already surrendered her, a court fight would be expensive. If you have not; PM me. I will walk you through this. I am so sorry.

Ojai, thank you so incredibly much!! I really, absolutely wish we had known the our legal rights before we gave her back. We were obviously uniformed and now idea about it all.

We have given her back, but if you read my last reply on the situation, we may be getting her back. I will PM you because I'm really not certain what to do at this point. The breeder would like visitation rights and wants to meet us. As much as I heartbroken, that just sounds like a lot control for the breeder to still have, as well as ridiculous. We are going to offer to buy her, but I'm not sure that will even fly.

[MissFlora]

Originally Posted by addevo

I'm happy to hear that Lily is spayed. That protects her from being used only for her profit-making potential.

But regarding future "visiting rights," the rescue who blessed us with our little Wendell went through that question with his previous owner. They told us that they don't ever agree to such an arrangement because it only confuses the dog. It might make the human feel better, but the dog doesn't understand why they are being left behind, AGAIN. It's like ripping off a bandage over and over. If the breeder truly wants what's best for Lily, she won't want to put her through that. Lily has been shuffled around enough. You could promise to send her occasional pictures and email updates, but please don't agree to any future visits.

And please talk to the lawyer who offered to help you. You need to know your rights, and as the lawyer said, police are often the source of alot of mis-information. They go the Police Academy, not law school.

Addevo, completely agree with you about this. We are really uncertain what to do. It's also not a guarantee the breeder is going to end up giving her back. And if she does...I cannot stand the idea of giving her up for a weekend just because this woman cannot make up her mind and is emotionally and mentally unstable. And yet, I can't stand the idea of letting Lily stay one more day with her. We are going to try and offer to buy her to Kay's son-in-law who is mediating the situation right now. He has been really incredible and has been the only one who has been able to talk to the breeder and get anyw here with her. We'll see how far we get.

[sganow]

Good luck! I hope you get Lily back soon!!!!! Keep us informed of any progress.

[celstu1]

Can you have Kay write up a purchase and sales agreement (backdated 4 months ago) to when she gave you Lily, and then you'd be the 'rightful' owner and you could fight for Lily in court? Just a thought. I mean you were GIVEN Lily from Kay who is technically the owner right? Unless when Kay gave Lily back to the breeder, she did paperwork for that. Verbal agreements do not override written documents, if the only written document is the one Kay has when she purchased Lily from the breeder, than that is the legally binding document for ownership. Sorry for your situation, how heartbreaking!

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by celstu1

Can you have Kay write up a purchase and sales agreement (backdated 4 months ago) to when she gave you Lily, and then you'd be the 'rightful' owner and you could fight for Lily in court? Just a thought. I mean you were GIVEN Lily from Kay who is technically the owner right? Unless when Kay gave Lily back to the breeder, she did paperwork for that. Verbal agreements do not override written documents, if the only written document is the one Kay has when she purchased Lily from the breeder, than that is the legally binding document for ownership. Sorry for your situation, how heartbreaking!

I could be wrong, but it sounds like the friend that gave her the dog did not have the right to do so without the breeders permission per her contract.

To the OP:
As for the breeder wanting to have visitation and meet you, I don't consider that over stepping her bounds at all. It sounds very much like she is a
responsible breeder who cares about the welfare of her pups. I wish there were more like her.

[Ojai]

From OP:

"Earlier this year, breeder/keeper said she was going to Texas and dropped Lily off with Kay. Kay was scheduled to go to Hawaii to see her daughter for a month. So my sister and I volunteered to keep Lily.

"Well, after two months had gone by, the breeder never called Kay for Lily. Kay offered to let us keep Lily, saying it was good she was in a stable environment where she wasn't constantly being passed back and forth. She actually told breeder this a month ago.

"Four months have passed and today we got the worst phone call ever: breeder called and wanted Lily back. Not only that, but she had filed theft charges against Kay. She also called my sister and left a horrible, threatening message, then had a friend of her's call and leave a message telling us we had 24 hours to return Lily to her rightful owner, and that the breeder was an excellent person who had never neglected or hurt any animal. (Why did she even feel the need to defend her?!)

"The police officer said we had to give her back, even though Kay purchased her 6 years ago and has paper work. The officer said the woman was psychotic ..."

Does this sound like a responsible breeder? Bouncing a dog back and forth, and ignoring its whereabouts for four months? Further, Kay was not the original owner; Kay's daughter was, and any "contract" as referenced would have been between the breeder and Kay's daughter, not the breeder and Kay. Yet Kay assumed the responsibility of ownership from her daughter, with a some sort of mutually agreed upon swapping back and forth between Kay and the breeder. If these facts are accurate, they would nullify any contract language to the contrary, if such exists, as would the four-month abandonment of Lily.

This matter is now being handled privately, so opinions based on speculation are not helpful during the process of ascertaining the facts. We lawyers like actual facts. I would request patience, please.

[Rhetts_mama]

Wow.

I would postulate that the breeder would have had to have been aware that the dog was with the Op for 4 months and that a rehome was planned. Do you propose that all breeders should have a daily check with their pups to assure that they are with the rightful owner? For all you know, since you have only the OP's version of events, it's possible that the breeder has a lawyer of her own who advised her of her rights in regards to enforcing the contract.

If the breeder was aware that the original owner of the dog ( the daughter) had given the dog to the mother and had in fact approved of the transfer, it does not nullify the contract.

I agree facts are facts. But it's all too easy to slant the appearance of "facts" to ones favor.

If the OP wishes to have this thread closed to avoid speculation, it's within her rights to pm admin and make the request. Until then, the rest of us are free to post our speculations opinions and thoughts.

[Monika]

Originally Posted by MissFlora

Lily is spayed. She had all of her shots—everything. We were able to afford her health care, including grooming and vet bills (teeth cleaning, etc.). The main issue of buying a new puppy is the initial cost. I certainly did not mean to convey that I am unable to properly and fully care for her, nor did I mean to scare anyone into thinking I was irresponsible, truly. I'm currently building my career, so the budget is there for her needs, but not to go out and purchase a new puppy or other large money items this year - next year more than likely. That was one reason we agreed to keeping her was because she was given to us, thus we could afford her.

In an interesting turn of events... our friend called her daughter and son-in-law who originally had Lily. The son-in-law has apparently dealt with the breeder before and worked with her son for several years. He was able to talk to her and ask her to seriously evaluate whether or not keeping Lily was going to work with her lifestyle anymore. He called us and spoke with us and was really good. We will have a decision tomorrow. The only hitch is the breeder said she would still like to see her on occasion and meet my sister and I. We are considering the suggestion to ask to purchase her. That would take care of any issues that might arise.

Either way, it will be okay. The whole thing is beyond crazy. But hopefully the time will come when either Lily will be ours or else we will eventually find another Yorkie.

Thank you all for the support. It is truly a distressing situation but so glad I found this forum.

Please update us and let us know if your baby has returned to you! I hope your friend's son-in-law was able to talk this horrible women out of this!

[Ojai]

There was no attempt to restrain your "right" to speculate about something you know nothing about, just a simple request. And your interpretation of a valid contract is that of a typical layperson. A good lawyer gathers facts (not speculation; not one party's version; not someone's uninformed opinion on a blog), and proceeds accordingly. If you choose to defend this "breeder" about whom you know nothing, knock yourself out. I volunteered to assist the OP as part of the YorkieTalk community, beginning with gathering all of the relevant facts, and if it turns out that is in the best interest of Lily and the person who has been devoted to her care for the last four months, I will slant those facts in whatever way I can. If your thing is to speculate and opine ... just because that is what you like to do ... have fun. I, on the other hand, have serious work to do.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ojai

And could everyone cut the obligatory "can you afford a yorkie" lecture? A little compassion is in order here, not robotic repetition of the party line.

I'm sorry you're offended by that line of questioning, but when one says they can't afford $500.00 for a dog, you have to wonder if they can afford a dog that might need a trip to the ER. With a dog this size, you don't have the luxury to wonder if he should go or not, when in doubt get thee to the emergency room. I've read far too many threads where people had to rehome their yorkies because they had no idea the expense involved. The OP wasn’t offended by this line of questioning why are you? We all try to post what we feel are helpful suggestions. I will continue to post this if someone says that they can’t afford $500.00 for a yorkie.

[Ojai]

Nancy, I am fully aware of the concerns for Yorkies here, my post was not directed at you specifically, and of course you are entitled to ignore my opinion and post whatever the heck you want. All I was asking was for a little human compassion as well, which plenty of posters demonstrated. Sometimes a dog with, say, cancer, could require treatment that costs in excess of $10,000. Are you suggesting that, in order to own a Yorkie, one must have that kind of pocket change? Because that sounds elitist. And as for the feelings of the OP; without revealing what is now attorney-client privilege, do you think she would dare tell you that she was hurt? No one is a bigger animal lover than I; but I also worry about the well-being of people, too. Which is why I volunteered to help her. And instead of being acknowledged for that (not that I am expecting nor desiring any), I find myself defending my business of 26 years, as well as attempting to protect the heartbroken OP, at least until the facts have been accrued. You know the thread somewhere about earned respect? I would think my 26 years of virtually never losing a case entitles me to some as well. Unnecessary drama until I can figure out everything that has gone on here just seems counterproductive to me. Finally, I am not retired. I work all day (from a home office, so my dogs are not alone except when I am in court, and there is almost always someone else in the house when I am!), and there are people (and in a few cases I have had, animals) depending on me. This back and forth is distracting, thus my request for patience before judgment on the fitness of the OP is passed.

[Jbar89]

Originally Posted by MissFlora

I found out local court would only cost $50, but Kay isn't sure it's worth it. She doesn't have the fight in her. I would, but since I'm not the legal owner, I wouldn't even have a case. The whole thing really upset and disturbed Kay and she's really heartbroken. But she's not the type to legally pursue people. It's a horrible situation. But I'm kind of out of options. I just trust that Lily will be safe and sound, and hopefully someday find a new Yorkie to love.

Please tell your friend to fight it! Don't give up!!!

[Ojai]

Originally Posted by Jbar89

Please tell your friend to fight it! Don't give up!!!

I won't let her! (And thanks.)