Biewer Dogs - Don't know how all of you feel. - Page 7 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

shelbysmom · 12-23-2005, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukeka

All I am saying is that theres ALOT OF OPINIONS .. AND IT AWAYS SEEMS TO GET UGLY, ME WANTING TO BE A MEMBER OF ANYTHING SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I SAID ??? .. NONE THE LESS I hope that no-ones feelings get hurt, When there is so much passion in such a HOT topic ?? I hope I didn't offend ? if did I am sorry

Happy Holidays to you all

Well yikes. I hope we can discuss this without it getting nasty. I sure have no intention of going there. I posted the opinion of the YTC because they have the last word in what makes a standard Yorkie. If we are going to treat and shout respect for the standard when it comes to size, shape, ears and everything else we have to respect their idea of correct color too.

Correct me if I am wrong (like I have to ask

) but isn't it true that the Biewer started by Mr. Biewer deciding to take his off colored "yorkie" and breeding it until he got baby off colored Yorkies?

Not judging and I know that is over simplifying but isn't that what happened?

I understand that Yorkies started by someone mixing breeds and creating this little creature. Then they took this creature and mixed it with an Australian whatever and made a silky. Right? Isn't that how all breeds started? or not? I don't know?

So, my question is are there other breeds that were created by a metamorphosis? I know there are changes within a breed but are other new breeds created by the change?

Do most Biewer breeders consider them a different breed? Or do most Biewer breeders call them Yorkies that are just not within the standard?

shelbysmom · 12-23-2005, 05:19 PM

Well, skip that. I just found this online. Looks like we won't solve this one today. We could take a poll?

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;...inktext=Biewer

As a very new breed, there remains some controversy over whether the Biewer is a completely separate breed or is simply a colour variation of the Yorkshire Terrier. The Biewer is not currently recognized by any of the major international kennel clubs.

External links

YorkieRini · 12-23-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbysmom

Well, skip that. I just found this online. Looks like we won't solve this one today. We could take a poll?

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;...inktext=Biewer

As a very new breed, there remains some controversy over whether the Biewer is a completely separate breed or is simply a colour variation of the Yorkshire Terrier. The Biewer is not currently recognized by any of the major international kennel clubs.

External links

I understand what you ask and the questions you pose. They are good questions. I really think these conversations will go on for a while. No harm done

Snow Yorkies · 12-24-2005, 01:18 AM

I have read most of the posts on this thread and this is my Opinion~~

On all my registrations for my Biewers, it reads as a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier ala Pom -pon
Here is my take on whether Biewers are Yorkies....Yes they are that is their heritage. They come from yorkies...Yes, they are considered as a breed of their own... correct.. but it doesn't mean they are not yorkies. It just means a standard has been set for them. So I raise the question and I have to ask ??? For instance the Beagles... there is a 13" & a 15" aren't both of them still Beagles??? They have different standards!!! But are still called Beagles. Then another example Labs. Three different colors are allowed in this Breed but each color has a standard... Aren't they still called Labs???... Chocolate, Yellow and Black... So even though Biewers have their own standard they are still yorkies, no matter how you want to slice the pie.

My opinion on their temperment... I too have both and Biewers and American traditional yorkies.. We all live as one big happy family...

All of them get along and I have found that the Biewers were not much different from my other yorkies to the exception that the Biewers are more loyal and tender hearted. Each one of my dogs have their own personality. My first Biewer Eliah, I no longer have, finished potty training my other two traditional yorkies that I struggled with for a year. So I guess this has to go by each individual dog, not by the breed. I have read numerous posts on chewing issues, so I don't feel that this should be considered a Biewer issue. But a puppy issue. As I have had both breeds chew...

I would like to add that I do not belong to either clubs that have been established here in America for the Biewers. I do not agree in what they stand for or how they represent the breed for others to follow. I do show with the IABCA with my Biewers and will continue to do so until other doors open for them in the show ring.

Please note this is my opinion and my experience of both breeds of yorkies. I wish to cause no ill feelings with this I am just wanting to share my experiences and opinions. Everyone has their own opinions and should be respected as just that. This doesn't make me right not does it make any other person wrong.

Carinhosamulher · 12-24-2005, 04:10 AM

You hit the nail on the head with your example! Actually as far as Labs go, there are four standards - Chocolate, Yellow, Black, and Golden Labrador Retriever. And there are two types - the English and the American. So you can have a chocolate English lab, a black American Lab, a Yellow American lab, etc etc... But, as you said, they are all Labradors. And all AKC registered. I have seen chocolate coated Yorkies, the standard AKC recognized Yorkies, and Biewer Yorkies (I have a biewer parti, I believe). In the end, they are all Yorkies. The way I understand it the AKC sets those standards for competition showing. I had a Chocolate Lab 12 years ago. His name was Dudley. He was AKC registered purebred. Now the AKC states that the chocolate lab should not be over 75 pounds. Mine was over 110 pounds! Does that mean he's not a lab? He wasn't fat or overweight. He just had a lot of muscle and happened to get to be huge. My vet was amazed. So I couldn't 'show' Dudley. Oh well. I'm not in to that to begin with. The point is, just like humans in dogs there are many variations of one breed. It doesn't make the variation less of that breed.

As far as their temperament goes: My mom has a AKC registered Yorkie name Teddy. She also had one name Clancy about five years ago (tragically he died too soon). Both were and are the yippiest, barkingest, hyper little dogs I have ever seen. They love their toys, are energenic players, and can just run around the yard all day long. My Matthias is very calm. He just sits around and cuddles. While he does get down on the floor and run and play he is content to lay on the floor and just watch the goings-on. The most energenic he gets is when he's tormenting our male cat (which is freaking hilarious). I think personally, and from what I've read, their personality traits are pretty much the same. They are both very terrier-like. And again, just like humans these dogs and every dog is an individual. They all have different personalities and much of it is shaped with how they are raised.

My opinion to the question of is a Biewer a Yorkie? yes. They are a Yorkshire Terrier through and through. They just happen to have a different coat coloring. Dock their tails and they look just like a Yorkie. Their body structure is that of a Yorkie. There are different variations of color for Caucasians, but they are all human, right? Biewers are a different color variation of Yorkshire, but it is a Yorkshire.

YorkieRini · 12-24-2005, 04:54 AM

If this is how we want to introduce Biewers to the US then we will get there as fast as a mouse gets where it wants to go running in a wheel.

If they are just Tri Yorkies then why do we have a standard that we follow? Thinking long term, I truly feel it will be more harm than good to lump Biewers in with Tri Yorkies.

They were created to be a separate breed when you read the history. The fact of the matter is the YTCA will not change and start excepting the Tri Colors. Mr Biewer realized this 20 yrs ago, got us this far by creating a standard and having the majority of the offspring produce pups within the standard. I personally think we are going backwards if we classify them as Tris.

All BREEDS have a standard. A Tri Yorkie doesn't have a standard. The Biewer does, doesn't matter where they originated from. If we work together and breed only Biewers that are within the standard keep good records and have a paper trail to show how long this breed has been around, someday we can present them to the UKC as a separate breed and the UKC would hear our case and maybe, just maybe accept the Biewer as a separate breed.

Think about this..What about the Sporting Breeds? There are sevaral different Setters right?. They all have different standards because they are different breeds ie. Irish Setter, English Setter, Gordon Setter. They all look alike, IMO but their colors vary. I don't know the History of the Setters to me just different colors.

I will continue to persue Biewers as a separate breed because that's how I would like to see them recognized. If I'm the minority, it may never happen which is a shame. But I'm gonna give it my best shot.

I hope I don't offend anyone with my passions. But I just can't accept them as Tri Yorkies, they are much more intricate then that.

Merry Christmas Eve everyone!
Irene

Carinhosamulher · 12-24-2005, 05:19 AM

<quote>
Think about this..What about the Sporting Breeds? There are sevaral different Setters right?. They all have different standards because they are different breeds ie. Irish Setter, English Setter, Gordon Setter. They all look alike, IMO but their colors vary. I don't know the History of the Setters to me just different colors. </endquote>

That is why I think Biewers should be called Biewer Yorkshire Terrier. It is simply a different standard of the same dog.

YorkieRini · 12-24-2005, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinhosamulher

<quote>
Think about this..What about the Sporting Breeds? There are sevaral different Setters right?. They all have different standards because they are different breeds ie. Irish Setter, English Setter, Gordon Setter. They all look alike, IMO but their colors vary. I don't know the History of the Setters to me just different colors. </endquote>

That is why I think Biewers should be called Biewer Yorkshire Terrier. It is simply a different standard of the same dog.

OK OK I'll call them what they want just accept them..hahahaha..Seriously I understand what you say. I just avoid saying Yorkshire Terrier because the name's too long and some show folks cringe when they hear it

LittleMissChloe · 12-24-2005, 06:21 AM

I'm confused, what would Chloe be?

gymbo68 · 12-24-2005, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleMissChloe

I'm confused, what would Chloe be?

I think a Yorksire Terrier

yorkiegal719 · 12-24-2005, 07:16 AM

Merry Christmas Everyone!
Now, I've read all this post and it's very interesting. I have a Biewer that came over from Germany and he's wonderful! His mannerisms are a little different than my Yorkies but nothing that is really noticible. I think that it's just the different dogs themselves. I love them both. Now, I think that the Biewers should be kept as a diffferent breed, just for the reason that that's what they were bred to be. Not to be mixed with Yorkies to be bred with like (Biewers) to keep the line pure. So to me that's why they should be seperate. We are not trying to be YTCA, don't really want to go there. I belong to the IBC in Germany and will stay there, maybe one day there will be an American IBC here in the states which would make it a whole lot easier for those of us who do have them or are breeding them. I think that a true Biewer breeder should have their litters registered with the IBC in Germany which isn't too much work to achieve. I think that this topic is going to be debated for a long time and eventually they will be accepted as soon as the breeders here in the states will be breeding responsibly to the true standard of Biewers. Hopefully one day the prices will be a little more affordable so that more people can enjoy these beautiful dogs. Here is a picuture of my Archie...

Bentley&BitsysMom · 12-24-2005, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleMissChloe

I'm confused, what would Chloe be?

Oh my goodness, Chloe would be just BEAUTIFUL!!!!

So is little Archie

whispersmom2 · 12-24-2005, 07:38 AM

Theresa, Archie is so gorgeous. He is a very proud boy who looks as if he says" look at me".. How old is he now?? And, how large is he? Feel free to PM me the answers if you prefer cause I was gonna ask who his breeder was and that might not be a name that should be posted especially if the breeder has not given permission to publish their name..
I do not plan to show (many reasons for that choice) so I keep my Biewers in cuts that show off their good looks but are not such high-maintenance..I would love them even if they were bald!!! LOL

YorkieRini · 12-24-2005, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleMissChloe

I'm confused, what would Chloe be?

I'll tell you Chloe is, she's a living doll!!

YorkieRini · 12-24-2005, 07:53 AM

Oh Archie! Be still my beating heart He is soooo handsome. Look at his lovely coloring! And how he holds himself so regal! Give him kisses from me!

12-24-2005, 01:18 AM	#94
Snow Yorkies Biewer Passionate Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southern AL Posts: 1,684	Just my Opinion I have read most of the posts on this thread and this is my Opinion~~ On all my registrations for my Biewers, it reads as a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier ala Pom -pon Here is my take on whether Biewers are Yorkies....Yes they are that is their heritage. They come from yorkies...Yes, they are considered as a breed of their own... correct.. but it doesn't mean they are not yorkies. It just means a standard has been set for them. So I raise the question and I have to ask ??? For instance the Beagles... there is a 13" & a 15" aren't both of them still Beagles??? They have different standards!!! But are still called Beagles. Then another example Labs. Three different colors are allowed in this Breed but each color has a standard... Aren't they still called Labs???... Chocolate, Yellow and Black... So even though Biewers have their own standard they are still yorkies, no matter how you want to slice the pie. My opinion on their temperment... I too have both and Biewers and American traditional yorkies.. We all live as one big happy family... All of them get along and I have found that the Biewers were not much different from my other yorkies to the exception that the Biewers are more loyal and tender hearted. Each one of my dogs have their own personality. My first Biewer Eliah, I no longer have, finished potty training my other two traditional yorkies that I struggled with for a year. So I guess this has to go by each individual dog, not by the breed. I have read numerous posts on chewing issues, so I don't feel that this should be considered a Biewer issue. But a puppy issue. As I have had both breeds chew... I would like to add that I do not belong to either clubs that have been established here in America for the Biewers. I do not agree in what they stand for or how they represent the breed for others to follow. I do show with the IABCA with my Biewers and will continue to do so until other doors open for them in the show ring. Please note this is my opinion and my experience of both breeds of yorkies. I wish to cause no ill feelings with this I am just wanting to share my experiences and opinions. Everyone has their own opinions and should be respected as just that. This doesn't make me right not does it make any other person wrong. __________________ Dare to Dream Biewers Charter Member of BAPPC

12-24-2005, 04:10 AM	#95
Carinhosamulher YT Addict Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 308	You hit the nail on the head with your example! Actually as far as Labs go, there are four standards - Chocolate, Yellow, Black, and Golden Labrador Retriever. And there are two types - the English and the American. So you can have a chocolate English lab, a black American Lab, a Yellow American lab, etc etc... But, as you said, they are all Labradors. And all AKC registered. I have seen chocolate coated Yorkies, the standard AKC recognized Yorkies, and Biewer Yorkies (I have a biewer parti, I believe). In the end, they are all Yorkies. The way I understand it the AKC sets those standards for competition showing. I had a Chocolate Lab 12 years ago. His name was Dudley. He was AKC registered purebred. Now the AKC states that the chocolate lab should not be over 75 pounds. Mine was over 110 pounds! Does that mean he's not a lab? He wasn't fat or overweight. He just had a lot of muscle and happened to get to be huge. My vet was amazed. So I couldn't 'show' Dudley. Oh well. I'm not in to that to begin with. The point is, just like humans in dogs there are many variations of one breed. It doesn't make the variation less of that breed. As far as their temperament goes: My mom has a AKC registered Yorkie name Teddy. She also had one name Clancy about five years ago (tragically he died too soon). Both were and are the yippiest, barkingest, hyper little dogs I have ever seen. They love their toys, are energenic players, and can just run around the yard all day long. My Matthias is very calm. He just sits around and cuddles. While he does get down on the floor and run and play he is content to lay on the floor and just watch the goings-on. The most energenic he gets is when he's tormenting our male cat (which is freaking hilarious). I think personally, and from what I've read, their personality traits are pretty much the same. They are both very terrier-like. And again, just like humans these dogs and every dog is an individual. They all have different personalities and much of it is shaped with how they are raised. My opinion to the question of is a Biewer a Yorkie? yes. They are a Yorkshire Terrier through and through. They just happen to have a different coat coloring. Dock their tails and they look just like a Yorkie. Their body structure is that of a Yorkie. There are different variations of color for Caucasians, but they are all human, right? Biewers are a different color variation of Yorkshire, but it is a Yorkshire. __________________ Carinhosa Mulher - Loving Mother to my daughters and furry kids! bheuston@gmail.com or carinhosa@comporium.net

12-24-2005, 06:21 AM	#99
LittleMissChloe Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: In the petshop Posts: 151	I'm confused, what would Chloe be? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Chloe - Born January 5th, 04

12-24-2005, 07:16 AM	#101
yorkiegal719 YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 603	Merry Christmas Everyone! Now, I've read all this post and it's very interesting. I have a Biewer that came over from Germany and he's wonderful! His mannerisms are a little different than my Yorkies but nothing that is really noticible. I think that it's just the different dogs themselves. I love them both. Now, I think that the Biewers should be kept as a diffferent breed, just for the reason that that's what they were bred to be. Not to be mixed with Yorkies to be bred with like (Biewers) to keep the line pure. So to me that's why they should be seperate. We are not trying to be YTCA, don't really want to go there. I belong to the IBC in Germany and will stay there, maybe one day there will be an American IBC here in the states which would make it a whole lot easier for those of us who do have them or are breeding them. I think that a true Biewer breeder should have their litters registered with the IBC in Germany which isn't too much work to achieve. I think that this topic is going to be debated for a long time and eventually they will be accepted as soon as the breeders here in the states will be breeding responsibly to the true standard of Biewers. Hopefully one day the prices will be a little more affordable so that more people can enjoy these beautiful dogs. Here is a picuture of my Archie... Attached Thumbnails __________________ Theresa & The Boys +1 The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue

12-23-2005, 05:19 PM	#92
shelbysmom YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,394	Well, skip that. I just found this online. Looks like we won't solve this one today. We could take a poll? http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;...inktext=Biewer As a very new breed, there remains some controversy over whether the Biewer is a completely separate breed or is simply a colour variation of the Yorkshire Terrier. The Biewer is not currently recognized by any of the major international kennel clubs. External links

12-24-2005, 04:54 AM	#96
YorkieRini Livin' La Yorkie Local Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,607	If this is how we want to introduce Biewers to the US then we will get there as fast as a mouse gets where it wants to go running in a wheel. If they are just Tri Yorkies then why do we have a standard that we follow? Thinking long term, I truly feel it will be more harm than good to lump Biewers in with Tri Yorkies. They were created to be a separate breed when you read the history. The fact of the matter is the YTCA will not change and start excepting the Tri Colors. Mr Biewer realized this 20 yrs ago, got us this far by creating a standard and having the majority of the offspring produce pups within the standard. I personally think we are going backwards if we classify them as Tris. All BREEDS have a standard. A Tri Yorkie doesn't have a standard. The Biewer does, doesn't matter where they originated from. If we work together and breed only Biewers that are within the standard keep good records and have a paper trail to show how long this breed has been around, someday we can present them to the UKC as a separate breed and the UKC would hear our case and maybe, just maybe accept the Biewer as a separate breed. Think about this..What about the Sporting Breeds? There are sevaral different Setters right?. They all have different standards because they are different breeds ie. Irish Setter, English Setter, Gordon Setter. They all look alike, IMO but their colors vary. I don't know the History of the Setters to me just different colors. I will continue to persue Biewers as a separate breed because that's how I would like to see them recognized. If I'm the minority, it may never happen which is a shame. But I'm gonna give it my best shot. I hope I don't offend anyone with my passions. But I just can't accept them as Tri Yorkies, they are much more intricate then that. Merry Christmas Eve everyone! Irene

12-24-2005, 05:19 AM	#97
Carinhosamulher YT Addict Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 308	<quote> Think about this..What about the Sporting Breeds? There are sevaral different Setters right?. They all have different standards because they are different breeds ie. Irish Setter, English Setter, Gordon Setter. They all look alike, IMO but their colors vary. I don't know the History of the Setters to me just different colors. </endquote> That is why I think Biewers should be called Biewer Yorkshire Terrier. It is simply a different standard of the same dog.

12-24-2005, 07:38 AM	#103
whispersmom2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MD Posts: 2,985	Theresa, Archie is so gorgeous. He is a very proud boy who looks as if he says" look at me".. How old is he now?? And, how large is he? Feel free to PM me the answers if you prefer cause I was gonna ask who his breeder was and that might not be a name that should be posted especially if the breeder has not given permission to publish their name.. I do not plan to show (many reasons for that choice) so I keep my Biewers in cuts that show off their good looks but are not such high-maintenance..I would love them even if they were bald!!! LOL

12-24-2005, 07:53 AM	#105
YorkieRini Livin' La Yorkie Local Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,607	Oh Archie! Be still my beating heart He is soooo handsome. Look at his lovely coloring! And how he holds himself so regal! Give him kisses from me!