I can't do it!

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by Baroness

I understand that people have strong feelings about getting a dog from the right breeders, adoption being a good avenue etc., but we should be more welcoming and less lecturing when someone new comes a knocking with news of a new addition coming to their home. People look for a site like this to learn how to care for their pet, or what to do if their pet has an issue, and they want to be in an environment where others have the same breed of pet and it feels like a community of friends. This doesn't feel like a very welcoming thread, and I would caution people to understand that your personal views are your own. There won't be many people coming here if instead of a welcome and happy thoughts they get a lecture and a dissertation on what some view as proper ettiquette on pet purchasing. Nor will you get many new members if people feel they are put under a microscope and their furbaby and them are less than adequate for so many within the group. Pets are pets and they ALL deserve love and care, there is no litmus test when it comes to owning and loving an animal. Please show kindness and patience with those who first come here looking for support...in time they will learn from the many threads here that spell out bad vs good breeders and the inherent problems associated with it all. There doesn't need to be a bad time or an argument...just support and a good ear.

I couldn't disagree more vigorously with this statement. It's not a matter of "ettiquette on pet purchasing" to warn people about the risks they take by purchasing a dog through a cruddy breeder. If one person is spared the heartache of having to deal with a sick or dying dog or if even a single greeder is put out of business because people wise up, then it's all worth it.

Knowledge is power. And it's threads like this one that spell out the hard earned knowledge so that people don't have to find things out the hard way.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Baroness

I understand that people have strong feelings about getting a dog from the right breeders, adoption being a good avenue etc., but we should be more welcoming and less lecturing when someone new comes a knocking with news of a new addition coming to their home. People look for a site like this to learn how to care for their pet, or what to do if their pet has an issue, and they want to be in an environment where others have the same breed of pet and it feels like a community of friends. This doesn't feel like a very welcoming thread, and I would caution people to understand that your personal views are your own. There won't be many people coming here if instead of a welcome and happy thoughts they get a lecture and a dissertation on what some view as proper ettiquette on pet purchasing. Nor will you get many new members if people feel they are put under a microscope and their furbaby and them are less than adequate for so many within the group. Pets are pets and they ALL deserve love and care, there is no litmus test when it comes to owning and loving an animal. Please show kindness and patience with those who first come here looking for support...in time they will learn from the many threads here that spell out bad vs good breeders and the inherent problems associated with it all. There doesn't need to be a bad time or an argument...just support and a good ear.

As a person who has spent nearly tens of thousands of dollars on health issues on my poorly bred yorkie, I will state my opinion.

There is a litmus test, and it starts with the breeder. What does the breeder do in his/her breeding program to reduce the incidence of poor health? What are her starting mating dogs? What does the breeder feed, what does the breeder do to socialize the dogs, where do they live? These important factors shape the entire rest of a dog's life and some things cannot be corrected. There is also a litmus test when it comes to caring and loving an animal. What will the owner do when the dog is sick? Will the owner seek out and pay for veterinary care or will the owner cast the dog aside to rescue to become someone else's problem?

One of the greatest things about yorkietalk is the sharing of information and the support. Much kindness and support is shown to new members here and to old members alike. No one is putting anyone under a microscope -- there is a giving of information that occurs. At the end of the day, people are free to make their own choices. No one judges them for it and almost everyone here will wish them well AND be there again if the house of cards comes crashing down. There is no "I told you so" that happens here - just support.

[hnybun128]

Originally Posted by 107barney

As a person who has spent nearly tens of thousands of dollars on health issues on my poorly bred yorkie, I will state my opinion.

There is a litmus test, and it starts with the breeder. What does the breeder do in his/her breeding program to reduce the incidence of poor health? What are her starting mating dogs? What does the breeder feed, what does the breeder do to socialize the dogs, where do they live? These important factors shape the entire rest of a dog's life and some things cannot be corrected. There is also a litmus test when it comes to caring and loving an animal. What will the owner do when the dog is sick? Will the owner seek out and pay for veterinary care or will the owner cast the dog aside to rescue to become someone else's problem?

One of the greatest things about yorkietalk is the sharing of information and the support. Much kindness and support is shown to new members here and to old members alike. No one is putting anyone under a microscope -- there is a giving of information that occurs. At the end of the day, people are free to make their own choices. No one judges them for it and almost everyone here will wish them well AND be there again if the house of cards comes crashing down. There is no "I told you so" that happens here - just support.

This is a great post! I agree completely.

[Twitterpate]

@107barney

Awesome post. You are correct. I have seen posts on here that get very passionate about the welfare of the dogs, and could come across as heavy-handed...BUT I have never seen an "I told you so" post. Once the purchase is finalized and the member comes here asking for help, I have ALWAYS seen the group rally around that member and offer alot of informational help for the new member to choose from.

For those that may be sensitive to what seem to be disagreeable posts, I use this analogy that my father-in-law just gave to my husband, his son of 48 yrs (yes, it took that long for him to explain his own "heavy-handed advice".

"Son, when I tell you something that makes you feel like I think you're an idiot, that is not my intent. I don't always handle the delivery real well, but I'm trying to give you the experience of 72 yrs in doing what I do. The reason I tell you something is not because I am smarter than you, it's because I MADE that mistake already, and suffered the consequences...I'm just trying to save you the time it takes to correct it."

It was one of the greatest conversations I think I have ever witnessed...and it holds true for a lot of situations.

~Twitterpate

[Baroness]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I couldn't disagree more vigorously with this statement. It's not a matter of "ettiquette on pet purchasing" to warn people about the risks they take by purchasing a dog through a cruddy breeder. If one person is spared the heartache of having to deal with a sick or dying dog or if even a single greeder is put out of business because people wise up, then it's all worth it.

Knowledge is power. And it's threads like this one that spell out the hard earned knowledge so that people don't have to find things out the hard way.

It is one thing to warn a person about what can happen when they buy a yorkie from a breeder like this, and I understand that, but it is another when people can get rather heated about their passion about the proper breeder and how adoption instead of supporting BYB's is better. No matter how well the intentions are it does push people away when their new addition sparks a long list of negatives, and what appears to be arguments, with a group of people they don't even know yet. I think we all know that the written word can get taken wrong, it just simply is not as good as speaking with someone. You miss the inflection, there is no face to face, you are relying solely on how well your post comes across to the average newbie.(Who many may not have ever been on a forum before so this is a completely new experience on all levels) How many times has anyone here had to explain themselves more clearly, or apologize to someone who took their post wrong, it happens and that is all I was trying to point out. This should be a happy time and I stand by my post that pets are pets and they all deserve love and care, and there is no litmus test when it comes to owning and loving an animal.

[Baroness]

Originally Posted by 107barney

As a person who has spent nearly tens of thousands of dollars on health issues on my poorly bred yorkie, I will state my opinion.

There is a litmus test, and it starts with the breeder. What does the breeder do in his/her breeding program to reduce the incidence of poor health? What are her starting mating dogs? What does the breeder feed, what does the breeder do to socialize the dogs, where do they live? These important factors shape the entire rest of a dog's life and some things cannot be corrected. There is also a litmus test when it comes to caring and loving an animal. What will the owner do when the dog is sick? Will the owner seek out and pay for veterinary care or will the owner cast the dog aside to rescue to become someone else's problem?

One of the greatest things about yorkietalk is the sharing of information and the support. Much kindness and support is shown to new members here and to old members alike. No one is putting anyone under a microscope -- there is a giving of information that occurs. At the end of the day, people are free to make their own choices. No one judges them for it and almost everyone here will wish them well AND be there again if the house of cards comes crashing down. There is no "I told you so" that happens here - just support.

I never said anyone would say I told you so. I never said no one would show support. All I was saying is that when things get heated and passionate it makes people uncomfortable. It is one thing to give your advice or experience, quite another when the content gets heated and passionate against what the OP's choice is.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Baroness

It is one thing to warn a person about what can happen when they buy a yorkie from a breeder like this, and I understand that, but it is another when people can get rather heated about their passion about the proper breeder and how adoption instead of supporting BYB's is better. No matter how well the intentions are it does push people away when their new addition sparks a long list of negatives, and what appears to be arguments, with a group of people they don't even know yet. I think we all know that the written word can get taken wrong, it just simply is not as good as speaking with someone. You miss the inflection, there is no face to face, you are relying solely on how well your post comes across to the average newbie.(Who many may not have ever been on a forum before so this is a completely new experience on all levels) How many times has anyone here had to explain themselves more clearly, or apologize to someone who took their post wrong, it happens and that is all I was trying to point out. This should be a happy time and I stand by my post that pets are pets and they all deserve love and care, and there is no litmus test when it comes to owning and loving an animal.

We all were new at some point in time. The way I see it: Some people learn how this all works and accept it, some people stay and spin their wheels trying to fix what they think is wrong with it, and some people leave because they cannot hack it.

The internet forums are not for everyone. It is just the way things are. Go to any public forum such as this one and you will see the same things!

I am again going to say that no one was mean to anyone in this thread. If some people read things and tried to pick up on inflection, they were wasting their time. Best to read the written word and accept it as it is written. Perhaps some of you need to stop worrying about inflection and focus on meaning.

Tme and time again people agreed that the OP is going to buy this puppy. Everyone knows that. I believe that nearly everyone who expressed concerns did wish him well with this puppy. The OP and a few others want us to simply say what he wants; and he and they don't like that it is not happening. Again...this IS the nature of the internet.

An old saying goes, "Take what you can use and leave the rest behind". It certainly would be a good thing for many here to employ.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Baroness

I never said anyone would say I told you so. I never said no one would show support. All I was saying is that when things get heated and passionate it makes people uncomfortable. It is one thing to give your advice or experience, quite another when the content gets heated and passionate against what the OP's choice is.

When you post on an internet forum you are going to get different opinions. Anyone who posts expecting to hear what they want and how they want it said are going to be sadly disappointed.

I would have to go back and read all of his posts, but I believe he stated that he was aware of that fact. Honestly, this is another one of those threads where a couple of people jump in to "save the day" and then the OP feels like the others are mean.

[Buster Brown]

One of the best qualities I could have in a friend is when I ask for advice they tell me honestly what they think not what I want to hear. The honest truth can be a hard pill to swallow but a least you know where you stand.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

One of the best qualities I could have in a friend is when I ask for advice they tell me honestly what they think not what I want to hear. The honest truth can be a hard pill to swallow but a least you know where you stand.

That is SO true. I was just talking with a friend last night and we were talking about that very topic!

[Foster Mom]

I have a question

Back about 7 years ago i decided to breed yorkies. I had a gorgeous male from some top bloodlines and i got my female. Not to talk costs here but it goes to the story here, my male cost me 1000.00 and wa a champion male, my female cost me 3000.00 and she is the one I found out later was sold to me at 4 1/2 weeks old. Now when i bred them granted i did not know all the problems that could arise and I truly did not know how difficult it is to breed these little guys. My female was 7 pounds and my male 3 pounds, don't ask me how he did it....determination I guess. Anyhow we had 3 gorgeous little boys, via c section. After the c section my female rejected her babies, and I had to foster them out at a breeders place for 7 weeks at the cost of one puppy, which was fair. Now my girl stopped eating and drinking, numerous vet visits trying to figure out waht was going on and no answers, syringe feeding her and giving her fluids via syringe for 8 weeks followed. Then I had her spayed, i was NOT ever going thru this again and maybe losing my girl. Her breeder (and I use that term very loosley) said no do not breed her it will work out better next time and I will help you, I said NO WAY. She had n my contranct that she got one baby out of each littler my girl ever had, plus the 3000.00 plus stud services with my male (unbelievable). anyhow after her spay we went back to not eating or drinking, another 7 weeks of syringe feeding and syringing fluids in. Then she seemed to get better but not quite back to the dog she was before. At 7 weeks we got 2 puppies back, and within a day or so I had to rush them to the vet, they had coccidia, I called the breeder who fostered them and all she said is "well your bitch must have had it when she gave birth" I said I am not pointing fingers I just wanted you aware since you have 2 litters there and if these boys have it then it may be at your place. Well she kept the tiniest little boy, and he started showing signs, what did she do? Instead of treating him she just watched him and did nothing, he died the day before he turned 3 months old. Such a sensless death. When my girl was spayed I was told it was very lucky I never bred her again as her uterus was "paper thin".

Anyhow back to my question, so i bred them and had a litter. I had 2 puppies to sell so I had a couple of friends very interested so I sold them the puppies. Now the puppies stayed with me until they were 14 weeks old ( Personally I just could not part with them any sooner) they had all their vet checks for even the slightest case of the sniffles, they had their shots, they had been microchipped, registered, I had prepaid for thier bile acid tests as i was told they could not be done accurately until the boys were 16 weeks old. Each boy went with a toy box full of toys, a month worth of food (and the one boy I continued to buy his food for the first 2 years as she could not afford premuim food and i did not want him eating garbage). They were both registered with the Canadian Kennel Club, in short between that and what I paid in vet bills because of this breeding, I spent a small fortune . Then I sold the pups for 500.00 each, because to me it was more important to me to know they went to a good home than it was to get more money for them.

About a year after my girl had these babies, she lost complete use of her back legs, turns out her knee caps were along the inside of her legs so they had to go in and take the knee caps off and saw the bone and turn it, then put the knee caps back on ( I forget what the surgery was called but it was pretty invasive). She also had bad LP which was not apparent before she stress of the weight of these babies we believe. 2 weeks later she had to have one leg redone as the surgery did not "take". All in all with her c section, spay, all the vet visits to try to get her eating on her own again, the puppies vet bills and then her leg surgery, in one year I spent 17,000.00. Yes you read that right, 17,000.00.

Now, given all of this does that classify me as a greeder a BYB or just a fool for even attempting this to begin with? Even without all the vet bills my boys would have had all their shots, been registered, any medical issues that were known would have been taken care of, bile asid tests, microchips and the toys and food they went with. I still would have charged only 500.00 per pup rahter than a higher price just for the piece of mind they went to good homes......

I still keep in contact with the ladies who bought my puppies and sadly one of them passed away 6 months ago due to cancer.

Now i have my girl, and my fosters that come and go and I can tell you I WILL NEVER EVER AGAIN ATTEMPT BREEDING YORKIES. I willl leave it to the ones who know how and I have the utmost respect as I saw fist hand how hard it is to breed them.

[Foster Mom]

Her breeder (and I use that term very loosley) said no do not breed her it will work out better next time and I will help you, I said NO WAY.<<<< Sorry I meant she said no do not SPAY her

[Twitterpate]

@ Fostermom

Wow..just...wow. I am so sorry that you went thru all that. As I read what happened, I could also read the heartache you endured thru all of it. You went above and beyond what a "first-timer" would normally do, and I commend you on your perseverance in trying to handle everything. You definitely had your hands full, and unfortunately learned all the pitfalls involved in breeding in one giant step.

I'll bet you're a fantastic foster mom. And sometimes things happen, you go down roads that you might not have necessarily gone down because of things like that. As much as it cost you emotionally and financially with your own breeding experience, there are foster dogs out there that are now very thankful that they have your undivided attention, and very glad that you do not breed. Because you're dedication to them is now total, and that might not have happened if you had not gone thru what you did.

Bravo to you!

~Twitterpate

[Foster Mom]

Then I sold the pups for 500.00 each, because to me it was more important to me to know they went to a good home than it was to get more money for them.<<<< Oh and BTW I sold them on a payment plan, the people who bought them could not afford the cost upfront so asked if they could pay in payments!!!! Wow, I look back now and realize I really was not very smart!!!

[capt_noonie]

Wow Fostermom that is such a sad story that happens much too often. All the care you put into your puppies would not classify you as a greeder in my book. Your girl's "breeder" is though. You did what you needed to care for the two pups, she did not.